Can too much t3 cause over stimulation that eventually leads to episode of extreme exhaustion

Hi everyone , I wondered if you could help me with a few questions/problems I have . It was the kind and clever folk from this site who :advised me to have t3 levels taken and therefore I found I was not converting t4 to t 3 effectively . Something I would never have found out; showed me research on euthyroid (is this people whos thyroid works without drugs ) folk where it showed their t3levels are naturally constant almost through 24 hours so with this info and discussion with pharmacist I started to take t3 12 hourly hopefully to mimic a person who has a healthy thyroid .

Firstly My background is Hashimoto for 8 years . Started on thyroxine only .then years later on t3 and t4.now for last 3 years on only t3. I take 40mcg liothyronine now 12 hourly . My t3 levels are always too high ; 8 or 9. Once lately it was too low =3. It is this result of 3 and why it occurred that leads me to my first question.

My second question is regarding my symptoms whilst running on too high levels of t3 and the fact I have weeks of "flare ups " whilst in between can feel almost normal.

1. I used to take t3 at about 5 or 6 a.m then middayish then before 5pm because I was following Paul Robinson 'recovering with t3' and wanted it out of my system a bit before bedtime so I could sleep . My interpretation of his theory may be wrong I know . I presumed t3 was a quick acting energy boost like speed coke caffeine drugs . And it lost its effect after a few hours that's why could sleep . However then I found out its half life is 18 hours and 3 days or more to have non left in system . So I find this contradictory as would still be working at bed time . In fact all night. Then a kind person on here showed me research where t3 produced all night by healthy folk a.in fact slightly elevated levels seen about 4 a.m . So then I started taking tablets twice a day 20mcg each time . So my levels would be constant day and night .

I drew a graph which made me realise at any one time I have the level of t3 from the last dose I have taken and some t3 left from about 5 previous doses as they are still in blood stream .

But does anyone know if just coz half life is 18 hours is a drug still functioning all that time and beyond ?

I believed I had an almost steady amount of t3 in my blood stream at any one time from my reasoning above .but lately I thought try t3 again at 6a.m and 6pm and so covers Paul Robinson rules a bit as well as my 12 hourly theory . I had my bloods taken at my usual time about 11 a.m . That morning I did not take my 6 a.m coz I was worried re 3 hour peak

But when I had bloods done my level for first time ever on t3 was below range (3). It is always too high . So from this it would seem t3 does lose its effect quickly. That U don't get a steady level over time from the sum of the effect of all the last few doses still in your blood stream .

I had took my last dose less than 18 hours before . I think writing this it seems I am answering my own questions and at the same time raising more . So sorry if I sound stupid or wasting your time .

Moving on ....lol.

Second question , do you think there is any logic in ;although I can feel really good for a while on high t3 blood levels of 9 . That this is like taking speed or another stimulant drug . In that you may feel great but U R pushing your body too far and so U will eventually be exhausted and will flake out for a bit . I say this because out of the blue . With no change to my regime . I get all my symptoms back and am unwell for a week or weeks . Then with lots of sleep and off sick from work I recover .

Consultant said U can feel tired if too high levels as U do with too low . But she does believe on going on symptoms foremost ,

I just wonder does anyone feel getting blood levels of t3 in range as much as possible is the answer .I am worried about losing my job you see as will lose house . Otherwise I know I am lucky to have long stretches of some function .

Thank you all . And I would like to donate but to whom is best

12 Replies

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  • I take 25 t3 a day. I was taking it at 8 and 2pm. My doc said it only lasts for 4 hours so to take it at 8 and then noon. My last reading was high at 9 so i will query this next time i go. I have no symptoms other than tiredness and slow recall.

  • The concept of half-life of T3 is not simple.

    T3 is a hormone which attaches to receptors in the cells to control the metabolism. As it carries out its function it gets "used up". Therefore how long T3 stays in the body is determined by how fast it is used. For example exercise uses T3 faster than when resting.

    Also if you take a small amount of T3 (as per Paul Robinson's Book) it will soon (in a few hours) be used and you will need more.

    Some people take a large single daily dose (as per Dr John Lowe) and this large amount keeps the body supplied for a long time, so a single daily dose works well.

  • I read an article by a US ND the other day, and she said that the T3 in NDT acts differently than the T3 in synthetic meds, meaning NDT can be taken once a day, whereas synthetic T3 needs to be multi dosed...I have no idea if this is true, but I take NDT once a day (in the morning) and do fine...at one point, I tried taking it several times a day, but I never felt any difference compared to taking it once a day...so maybe there is a difference in how the body absorbs and uses the T3 in NDT compared to synthetic T3...just a thought...?

  • I haven't heard of the difference in the T3 in NDT v T3.

    There is however a definite difference in people. Some people are able to take their full daily amount of T3 without being overstimulated, including people taking very large amounts such as 200 mcg daily.

    Other people are overstimulated by relatively small amounts of T3. This was the case for Paul Robinson and he describes it in his book.

    It is interesting that in the US T3 is supplied under the brand name Cytomel, manufactured by Pfizer. Their U.S. Physician Prescribing Information recommends once-a-day dosage “Recommended starting dosage is 25 mcg daily. Daily dosage then may be increased by up to 25 mcg every 1 or 2 weeks.” In the elderly or in pediatric patients, therapy should be started with 5 mcg daily and increased only by 5 mcg increments at the recommended intervals.

    labeling.pfizer.com/ShowLab...

    The British BNF however recommends 2–3 divided doses.

    evidence.nhs.uk/formulary/b...

    So even the medical establishment have not got this sorted!

  • Hi thank you for your reply . This all makes my head spin . Lol. Brain fog just got foggier . But yes forgot about the minor fact (minor NOT ) that the point of taking it is that your body hopefully will use it . So yes should be used up rather than just sit there circulating blood stream till its been all excreted etc .

    I wonder also about the blood results normal range for t3. I mean its the range of 'healthy ' (people who have a healthy thyroid gland) patients bloods . So their t3 is natural humans t3.

    We take pigs or synthetic t3 don't we . So is it known if human t3 and synthetic t3 have the same "currency" .as in U may have the right amount of t3 in your blood in the test but what if this synthetic t3 is worth half as much in strength when the cells use it .

    Don't know if that was silly thing to say . Please enlighten me .

    Basically I just wanna know if I am doing the right thing. How do I know if I am over stimulating / over dosing or under dosing.

    What's the best indicator . Is it yr pulse ,your temperature ,your bowel habits .

    On that note lol . I will thank U again xx

  • There are a large number of people on this forum who take NDT and others synthetic T3. They do not have any issue with the T3 being less effective than human T3. Many do however find that their Free T3 does need to be near the top of the range to feel well.

    In terms of single of multi doses, a single daily dose is much more convenient so is worth trying. If it causes overstimulation then move to multi doses.

    The symptoms of overstimulation are the same as for hyperthyroid and there is a list of both hypo and hyper symptoms on the Thyroid UK website. It is worth looking for both as some people are so concerned about taking too much that they remain hypothyroid.

    Dr John Lowe recommended making a list of your top 5 hypothyroid symptoms when starting treatment and then rating them out of 10 every day. This can help in assessing how well the treatment is working.

  • Thank you . Sounds good re listing symptoms and scoring. I would like to read more of Dr john lowe . Can U recommend any free articles, literature as skint re book purchases at present . I suppose my first question should be . Do U feel it would help as most knowledge I feel can be gained from this site . Thanx to all of you .

  • Below are some links which I have kept for further reference. They were originally posted on this forum by Shaws, who is the expert on Dr Lowe.

    web.archive.org/web/2010080...

    web.archive.org/web/2010082...

    web.archive.org/web/2010082...

    web.archive.org/web/2010103...

    web.archive.org/web/2010111...

  • Thank you so much for articles .I have only just had time and brain clarity for a read that I might take in some of it .

    Really helped with my questions . Is basal temperature and pulse your resting waking temperature and pulse . What is ok for temperature . As in mine used to be 36.2c pre diagnosis . now (on t3 only) its 36.6 to 36.7 . The touching chin tremor thing I didn't understand . Am I seeing if my hand shakes ,twitches .do I hold my hand vertically .both hands or one .

    Interesting re ecg and Achilles heel reflex as consultant has never tested these . Didn't know reflexes can be too fast . Thought they were either present or absent .

    Sounds silly question but is the book the exert is from the book you would most recommend me to get . And is there a best place to get a second hand one say .

  • The treatment with a high single daily dose of T3 was developed by Dr John Lowe in the USA. He published his book "The Metabolic Treatment of Fibromyalgia" in 1998. In the book be details how fibromyalgia patients who have normal thyroid blood tests respond well to T3 therapy.

    This book is good but is very long (1231 pages), expensive (it cost me £120) and quite technical. It is more aimed at doctors rather than lay people.

    The other problem with it is that following Dr Lowe's death is is no longer available new and any second hand copies available are selling for hundreds of pounds.

    Your original question was about overstimulation, which has hopefully been answered.

    I notice that you sometimes feel better with above range Free T3 - could you have thyroid hormone resistance?

  • Here is the article; I guess it's highly individual:

    drcherylkasdorf.com/2013/04...

  • Thank U all for your replies . Love your kindness and knowledge . Wishing U all better health and ease of being xx

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