Thyroid Levels

[katbar]

Hi my doctor says my t4 is good, and the symtoms i have could be because i have too much, levo, i dont feel like it is high i have been fairly well for some time, untill recently now i cannot loose any weight, my nails are breaking, i feel really low in myself and cannot be bothered with anything, my t3 has not been tested, has anyone had experience of having high t4 and getting the same symptons as when their thyroid was low.

My doctors will only act on whatever your blood results are.

I am considering taking t3, did you self diagnose or did your doctor suggest you try t3, i have never heard of being over will give you the same effects as being under, have you heard of this. Thanks for any help. Katbar.

[bantam12]

Being overmedicated can indeed feel the same as being undermedicated, you need some test results to know exactly where you are, TSH, T4 and T3, if you can't get them done with your GP have a look at private testing, Medichecks do several finger prick tests.

[katbar in reply to bantam12]

Hi so lowering my thyroxine could work, i couldnt see how i could loose weight on less when i cannot loose any on what i am now, my t4 is 22-3.

Thanks

[greygoose in reply to katbar]

Being over-dosed can make you put on/retain weight. Your T4 is 22/3, but what is the top of the range? The numbers without the ranges mean nothing.

Or, it could very well be that you aren't converting that T4 to T3. But, to know that, you would need to have your FT4 and FT3 tested at the same time. I would really not advise adding in T3 without having it tested, first.

You also need your vit D, vit B12, folate and ferritin tested. If any of these are sub-optimal, your body won't be able to use the hormone you're giving it. And, nutritional deficiencies will make it difficult to lose weight.

[katbar in reply to greygoose]

Thank you, i asked the nurse today, about my t3 she said they would not test fro t3 unless it seemed necessary which she does not think i need it tested, i have got a range of bloods booked for next wednesday, it is not until late afternoon, should i not take meds that day, i did ask all questions and said what information i had found. Not sure if i will get very far, i also asked if i would have to pay to get t3 tested, . Will see what happens after results, although i cannot be seen until the end of Sept, i was hoping to get help soon as i go on holiday mid september I do not want to feel like this then.

[greygoose in reply to katbar]

The FT3 is rarely tested on the NHS because they don't understand how important it is. Your nurse would have no idea if you needed it or not! They just assume that everyone can convert perfectly, but they are wrong. Most people get their labs done privately, because the NHS won't do half of them. You could get a pinprick test done privately, which will test

TSH

FT4

FT3

TPOab

TgAB

vit B12

folate

ferritin

And a few others that I forget. That can be done very quickly, and you'd know where you were. Details on the main page of TUK.

As for the tests you've got booked... Are you having your TSH tested and FT4? Be aware that TSH lowers during the day, and after eating, so yours will be pretty low, and you could end up with a reduction in dose due to that. And, if you take your dose of levo in the morning as usual, your FT4 will be higher than if you left 24 hours. But, it won't hurt you to leave it and take it after the test. I just don't understand the point of these afternoon tests. In France, no blood tests for anything are done after 10.0 am.

[katbar in reply to greygoose]

Hi, I have am appointment now for my bloods, they are doing tests for lots of things but not t3, they wont do it, unless my tsh shows i may have a problem with t3 or show other problems not sure what though, i am also being tested for Diabetes, which i don't feel i have any symtoms for this condition, is there a connection with thyroid and diabetes.

So based on this am app i should not take my meds until after the test ? i did ask the nurse that question and she said it really did'nt make much difference to the results.

Thank you to everyone for your replies .

[greygoose in reply to katbar]

Yes, well, as I said, the nurse doesn't know much about it. I thought you said your test was late afternoon. If it's in the morning, definitely don't take your levo until after the test.

When they say that your TSH shows you need your FT3 tested, what they mean is, your TSH is suppressed. Because they're looking for proof of high T3 as in hyperthyroidism. But, even when the TSH is suppressed, they don't always do the FT3. They really do not care about low T3 in hypothyroidism. So, your really do not stand much chance of getting it tested.

I don't see what other problem a TSH could show up. It's a very unreliable test, anyway.

There can be a link between hypo and diabetes, but I can't remember what the link is...

[katbar in reply to greygoose]

Thank you, yes i did say it was in the afternoon, i was give a couple of appointments, the late afternoon one was to go back for the results. I did feel like everything i said about what info i had gathered was'nt really taken on board, i am sure they would prefer patients not to tell them what they think too. See what happens when i go back, it could be something else and not Thyroid related. If there is nothing showing up i will get a t3 test done privately.

[greygoose in reply to katbar]

Well, don't just get the FT3 done privately. You need the FT3 and FT4 done at the same time to see if you are converting properly.

I'm sure they would prefer that patients, like children, are seen and not heard. But, if you want to get well, you have to make your presence felt! You are not a rag doll to be messed around!!!

[katbar in reply to greygoose]

ok, even though my bloods will test the t4, it is best to get the both done together. ?

[greygoose in reply to katbar]

Absolutely.

[shaws]

I don't understand why your doctor said T4 is good but then says you may be taking too much because you are complaining of symptoms?

When you had your blood test was it at the very earliest possible. Did you allow 24 hours gap between last dose of levo and the test (which you then take after it).

Get a print-out of your blood test results with the ranges and post on a new question of you don't have them today.

I think its about time GPs had some serious updating on how to make patients well if hypo.

If you've been feeling well for some time but now have symptoms a blood test should prove you may need an increase in hormones. I doubt he's taken more than TSH or T4 which isn't much good if your T3 is low.

[katbar in reply to shaws]

Hi my doctor said he would not do anything until i had another blood test, as my last test was high, this is when he said what i explained, my more recent test results does not have t3 on it, I phoned and asked for the results, also not B12 Vd, i couldnt get a appointment with the doctor, so they have put in with a practioner nurse, which to be honest listen more than doctors do, i go this afternoon, when i have had blood tests i have never been told not to take meds before, i always take them first thing in the morning well before food. I also have aching neck, shoulders and my fore arms are tender when pressed, i cannot see any other reasons than thyroid problems, my nails also have faint lines running down them, more than usual, i am not a depressive person but feel really low just now, although some symtons can be down to the menopause i am now through that one, I thought of asking if i could try some t3, unfortunately doctors will only go by test results. Thank you for you input gratefully received.

[shaws in reply to katbar]

Blood tests for thyroid hormones should always be done at the very earliest. If you can change your blood test to a.m. and a gap between levo and the test the results might be in your favour.

The reason is that the TSH is highest a.m. and drops throughout the day and doctors only take notice of the TSH and not the patient/symptoms.

It is a big learning curve and we are surprised that a prescription isn't helping us in any way and we feel worse sometimes.

Gradually working up a to dose of levo may improve health and thousands appear to do o.k.

Because we are dealing with hormones chopping/changing too early might backfire. It has taken years for our hormones to drop sufficiently so it takes some time to gradually improve.

[SlowDragon Administrator]

Have you had thyroid antibodies checked? There are two sorts TPO Ab and TG Ab. (Thyroid peroxidase and thyroglobulin) Both need checking, if either, or both are high this means autoimmune thyroid - called Hashimoto's, the most common cause of being hypo. NHS rarely checks TPO and almost never checks TG.

If you have Hashimoto's then you may find adopting 100% gluten free diet can help reduce symptoms, and lower antibodies too.

Ask your GP to test you for coeliacs. Ridges in nails can be a symptom. But even if coeliac test is negative, many of us (if have Hashimoto's) find that changing to gluten free diet, can really reduce symptoms.

If you have hidden gluten intolerance, then vitamin D is likely to be low.

Vitamin and minerals levels are very important, but standard NHS thinking, doesn't at the moment seem to recognise this. You will see, time and time again on here lots of information and advice about importance of good levels of B12, folate, ferritin and vitamin D.

[katbar]

I will ask the nurse today to do a full blood test, although i have taken my meds today, my mum was a b12 patient and had to have injections for this. I dont have ridges indents in the nails just lots of lines. I just know i dont feel well like i did before. I dont want to reduce the amount of thyroxine only to get worse, not putting on weight is important to me as i have struggled all my life with this and i am very careful with my food, the lack of energy and interest in things is not like me at all.

[greygoose in reply to katbar]

Hypo weight-gain has nothing to do with what you eat. You do sound very hypo, actually, but you could also have nutritional deficiencies, which is why it's so important to get them tested.

If you have taken your levo today, there's no point in doing the test. The FT4 will be high. There's also no point if you've eaten, or if you you're having it late in the day, because TSH will be low.