Can't face the damn gp for B12...

[Schenks]

Just need some guidance here - I am pretty sure I have a B12 deficiency. I have taken advice form expert patients on here and started to supplement with Thorne Research Basic B Complex and Solgar's methylcobalamine, at 5000mcg per day (chose that rather than 1000 for reasons below). I want to give it some time to make a difference, if it's going to, but how long would be too long?

Since reading the links provided to me (thanks, Marz and Humanbean) I am far more aware of having been a little posturally unbalanced, with a fine tremor, deteriorating eyesight (quicker than usual for age, I think), nocturnal cramps on stretching, history of depression and, although not depressed at the mo, have been prone to word-finding probs, forgetfulness, short-term memory sh***, developing paresthesia (still mild to moderate), weakness - etc.

I say I have been aware, because since taking the supplements I think I am starting to see an improvement - even after only about 10 days or so. Notably in the tremor, the cramps and even the forgetfulness - I am remembering what I think I've forgotten before I have gone up/downstairs only to find I can't recall what I'd forgotten in the first place...

My question is, should I s*d the tablets and go straight for injectable B12, or persevere and see how much improvement I can achieve with high oral dosing of B12 and the folate supplementation? I know that no-one can really tell me what to do, but I find the discussions really helpful on here.

The thing is, there is no point in expending energy going to fence with god - sorry, I mean talk to the gp, so as I work towards assimilating this next tranche of information, this time on B12, I am just wanting to lay any foundations in my thinking regarding the terror of self-injecting. If all that makes sense...

Comments gratefully received.

[Marz]

If you are already experiencing an improvement - then I would continue as you are. I have read on the PAS forum that for some people oral supplementation can be as good as injections. There are different forms of B12 as you probably know and often people inject ( Hydroxo ) and supplement with lozenges ( Methyl ) or an oral spray too.

You cannot overdose on B12 as you probably know - any excess is excreted. ( That's why dogs lick their bums ! - they are so clever ! )

I expect you also know that further testing once on supplements renders the tests pretty useless as the results will be skewed. I would keep a journal of your symptoms before you started B12 and monitor your improvements.

Hope things continue to improve. Pop across to the PAS forum and have a read - lots more info than I could possibly post They are excellent.

[radd in reply to Marz]

Hah. I didn't know this.

Maybe a new B12 supplementation technique for those who are severely deficient ! ! ...... ;o)))) ...

[Schenks in reply to radd]

As in Bum12?

[radd in reply to Schenks]

Lol.

[Schenks in reply to Marz]

Literally laughed aloud ... is this why I need not be too horrified when my dogs slap me a kiss on the mouth before I can dodge it?

Thanks for the reply, Marz; I had a B12 test a few months ago which was low, and I realised that there was no point having another as you say, but having read a bit so far (a little knowledge...) I got a bit paranoid about just how much damage might have been done and, therefore, whether or not I needed to step up the treatment, although I would dread self-injecting. I hadn't got to the information bits where it says oral can be as good as injecting ....... hmmm. My mind has wandered into completely dofferent territory at that one...

Didn't know about the oral spray; is there a benefit over lozenges? (Not being lazy to look it up, just still have very low stamina and not enough energy to do as much research from source as I want at the moment whilst still catching up on micro-life).

Not thought of a symptom journal - guess not been taking the B12 long enough to have thought of it! It's going to be interesting to work out what's from the LDN and what's from the B12.

However, I will tiptoe through the PAS tulips - as usual you've encouraged me. x

[Marz in reply to Schenks]

Schenks ....

b12deficiency.info/signs-an...

The above website will inform you of everything you need to know and MORE .... You will also know more than your GP -

Please read and memorise and I will be testing you next week

[Schenks in reply to Marz]

Aghhh!!

Thanks, M. x

[greygoose in reply to Marz]

Funnily enough, my dog doesn't lick his bum. Is that because I'm giving him 1000 mcg B12 every other day? Or is he just lazy? His bum could do with a lick!

[Marz in reply to greygoose]

He's just a lazy bum x

[greygoose in reply to Marz]

Like his mum! lol x

[Schenks in reply to greygoose]

Is it the LDN that's making me feel nauseous or the thoughts of licking a dog's bum?

[Marz in reply to Schenks]

... just keep taking the tablets

[Schenks in reply to Marz]

Lol!

[greygoose in reply to Schenks]

I didn't say I was going to lick it! That's his job, not mine! lol

[Schenks in reply to greygoose]

Oh, thank god! I thought it was the new way ...

[greygoose in reply to Schenks]

lol

[Schenks in reply to greygoose]

Appropriate emoticon, under the circumstances!!

[greygoose in reply to Schenks]

lol I speak fluent emoticon!

[radd]

Schenks,

Don't face your GP re Vit B12 as it will be a waste of time. I don't know about injections as don't need to do this myself but would suggest a longer trial period of methylcobalamine at 5000mcg per day. This will also need to be balanced with methylfolate which (as you probably know) works together with B12 (unless you already have elevated levels).

I had it explained to me that these high doses will encourage more receptors to open so the longer you supplement the better your supplements work.

There are also other forms you could research (tydroxycobalamin or adenosylcobalamin). I am presently supplementing a methycobalamin//adenosylcobalamin mix.

Methylocobalamin & methylfolate are the easiest to absorb so if these don't do the job then injections might be plausible. Methylfolate will need testing at some point as too much is harmful.

I agree with Marz that it is useless testing now … unless you went the MMA//homocysteine route ...... but I would just go by how you feel.

[Schenks in reply to radd]

B****y hell! Methylfolate? Mehthhfpojajjfjnwdnfndcobalamin? Hang on - just getting my tabs.... yep, Folate as L-5-Methyltetrahydrofolate from L-5-Mehyltetrahydrofolic Acid. Who knew?

As for the other cobalamin derivatives, all my head can handle at the moment is that I'm taking 5000 whatsits of methylcobalamin, but I guess the PAS site will have all the info on the cobalamin family, so over time I'll begin to understand what you mean. But thanks for the heads-up - I now know that I know even less than I thought I knew before I knew I knew nothing. See? The B12 is working!!!

And I get the supposition that more receptors will be opened as the cells are bathed in B12 - that makes perfect sense.

Thanks so much to you two; back-up and input. Soul and brain food.

xx

[Schenks in reply to radd]

P.s. I've never heard of methylfolate testing - can that be done on the NHS? (I tell my Gp what I'm taking and that the endo wants the results, which I send to her anyway, so the lab so far are more compliant than not.)

[radd in reply to Schenks]

Schenks,

Ask for folate within the red blood cells to be tested as opposed to serum folate. This is available on the National Health but depends on health authorities. My endo (Kent) gets its done but my GP who is very compliant (Brighton) can't find it on his list of available tests ! !

The more I read the more I realise I now know that I know even less than I thought I knew before I knew I knew nothing too.

Up the soul & brain food ! ! ! ...

[Schenks in reply to radd]

cheers for that - folate within the red blood cells, will do.

[Hidden]

I'd go straight to injecting. I tried supplements when my GP withheld hydroxocobalamin; personally, they raised my b12 serum levels but l was till symptomatic - raising my serum levels gave my gp the excuse not to prescribe monthly injections. T'was a vicious circle.

Have you someone you can train to inject you? I just can't do it - l can't get past hurting myself (if it was an emergency, l'm sure l would). My husband does mine. He's great!

[Schenks in reply to Hidden]

Have already replied once - the blasted post didn't register! Thanks for the reply, I'll bear it in mind; for now I'm going to carry on orally and see if the improvements continue. But I never thought of getting someone else to inject me. If you saw how my husband goes about DIY you'd understand my horror of the thought of him doing it. My Golden Retriever would be better!

[Iphoenix]

I have read all the responses on this post but am unclear can you actually inject yourself with B12 and if so does this need to be prescribed by a gp? But thank you for the great laughs.

[humanbean in reply to Iphoenix]

Yes, B12 can be injected. Some people have no choice abut it because they can't absorb B12 any other way. It can be done sub-cutaneously (under the skin) or into the muscle.

Some people can absorb B12 if taken as sublingual lozenges, or using patches (same principle as nicotine patches), or as nasal sprays or oral sprays.

The problem with injecting B12 in the UK is that any product intended to be injected is prescription only. In other countries injectable B12 can be bought over the counter. It is quite common for people in the UK to buy ampoules from Germany.

Another factor is that in the UK the only injectable B12 that is prescribed is hydroxocobalamin. Some people can't absorb that one very well, and do better with methylcobalamin which is an active form of B12. I'm not sure if adenosylcobalamin (another active form of B12) is also available as an injection.

Personally I have found that I do okay with oral methylcobalamin taken 5 days a week, and the other 2 days a week I will take adenosylcobalamin. I also take a B Complex (Thorne Research Basic B Complex) which has methylfolate in it and some other B vitamins in an active form that makes it easier for the body to absorb.

From reading the PAS forum it seems everyone has to find the combo of injections, oral supplements, patches, sprays etc, and B12 type, that suits them. There is no one-size-fits-all solution.

[Schenks in reply to humanbean]

Succinct, informative and pertinent as ever.

[humanbean in reply to Schenks]

Thank you, Schenks.

[Schenks in reply to humanbean]

My pleasure. x