Too much NDT?

[Jadus]

I had a total thyroidectomy. I'm new to taking NDT (chose not to take synthetics), and I'm trying to figure out what my optimal dose is. My question is this, when taking NDT only (not synthetics or an NDT/T3 combo), how can I tell if I'm taking too much? Thanks so much!

[Angus1]

How do I know when I’m on enough NDT?

Before labs were developed, doctors successfully treated hypothyroid patients by symptom elimination. Today, patients and many wise doctors still find symptom elimination an ideal way to treat…but in conjunction with other signs. As we are raising from the starting dose of one grain (60 or 65 mg) , we look for all of the following: the complete removal of our hypothyroid symptoms, an afternoon temp of 98.6F/37C, a morning before-rising temp of 97.8 – 98.2 (held under arm ten minutes with a liquid thermometer if you are imitating what Dr. Broda Barnes did), a good heart rate and blood pressure, plenty of energy and more positive signs, plus what is said right below about labs.

Hope this helps

Regards Angus1

[Jadus in reply to Angus1]

Thank Angus! I'm right on board with you. I take all my vitals daily (temprature twice) and journal my symptoms. It helps so much. Do you happen to know the specific side effects are of taking too much NDT, like feeling jittery or loosing hair even faster than when hypo? Anything specific like that.

[Angus1 in reply to Jadus]

NDT didn't work for me so I don't know exact symptoms but, I would believe you would go hyperhyroid. Generally you dose until symptom elimination, but for me NDT didn't work I took it for 4 months and got to 5 grains and felt progressively worse, I now take t3 only ct3m method.

[delaenag in reply to Angus1]

Hi, I am currently on NDT and it seems my levels for Free T3 adn T4 levels are still way too low. I'm on 3 grains and looking to increase to 4 grains a few times a week but worried it won't work. Is taking T3 and ct3 a natural option or is it like taking Levo or synthroid? Do you feel better on it? Thanks

[shaws Administrator in reply to Jadus]

Angus has given good advice.

[kathy1029 in reply to Angus1]

very helpful

[Clutter]

Jadus, the optimal dose is that which makes you feel well while your FT3 remains within range. It is possible to be considerably biochemically overmedicated without feeling at all hyper.

[Hidden in reply to Clutter]

One interesting question in this context is: are levels in 24 h urine important at all? There, you don't measure free Ts, only T4 and T3. I don't know about other countries, but the so called Hertoghe doctors in Belgium all seem to use both blood and 24 h urine, at least for initial diagnosis and treatment plan. I have often wondered if the FT3 levels in blood are more important than the levels in 24 h urine...?

[Clutter in reply to Hidden]

Anna69, urine thyroid testing is rarely done in UK so presumably isn't considered relevant. The little I've read about urine testing says it is not a good method of diagnosing hypothyroidism.

[Hidden in reply to Clutter]

OK, thanks...that's what I suspected. 24 h urine testing is very expensive and not covered by health insurance either...

[Hidden]

Have you been on medication containing T3 before? If you have, then you probably know that the TSH does not tell us very much once you take meds containing T3...your TSH will most likely end up suppressed, possibly even before you feel optimally treated.

Most doctors, however, will freak out at the sight of a lower-than-normal TSH, that is at least my experience.

So please don't let your TSH play any role when determining if you are hyperthyroid or not, but go by symptoms and body temp as suggested by others.

[Jadus in reply to Hidden]

Agree 100% on the worthiness of the TSH test. It's very scary how much the medical community relies on it to diagnose and treat hypothyroidism. I was on synthetic T4 (Tirosint)+T3 (Cytomel). Recently switched to NDT (WP Thyroid).

[jacrjacr]

you may have symptoms such as...feeling hot, hyper feeling,sweating, feeling flushed, cant sleep at night, headaches, burning eyes, a racing heart, which are all red flags.......and you don't have to have all of them....you may just have one like I do but you will know because it is something unusual feeling....at least always in my case......so look for weird stuff because too much is as dangerous as too little....

[Jadus in reply to jacrjacr]

Thanks jacrjacr, that's the kind of thing I was hoping for, physical symptoms.

Do you, anyone, know how long it would take for physical symptoms (not labs) of too much thyroid hormone to start showing? I'm guessing 1-2 days because any single dose of thyroid meds is completely out of your system no later than that based on the half lives of T4 and T3. So I should notice something one way or another within a day or two right?

[eeng]

Some people find that when they increase their dose of anything containing T3 (eg NDT) they get insomnia, anxiety, raised pulse etc for a day or two before they settle down, as though their body needs time to get used to a higher dose.

If symptoms persist for more than a few days then they are probably due to overmedication.

The length of time before overmedication symptoms appear is a bit complicated, it depends what the patient's hormone levels were like before the increase. If they were near the limit in the first place then they would appear within a day or two. If they were not very high it could take longer as the T4 builds up in the system over 6 weeks or so..