Coeliac Disease, and thyroid symptoms led to me facing disciplinary action.

[Pow1]

Hi. I would appreciate some advice if anyone has any.

I was diagnosed a coeliac about 6 years a go, and although I have been extremely strict with my diet I have never been quite right. The sickness, and bowel symptoms passed but the emotional/hormonal issues have never gone away. When I was initially diagnosed I assumed that my previous 'hormonal issues', throughout my childhood and my teens were down to undiagnosed coeliac disease, so my outlook was positive as I assumed everything would sort itself out. Diagnosed at 24, and I am 30 this year.

Now, 6 years on, I am facing disciplinary action at work, I have currently been suspended for the last 4 weeks, with a meeting arranged for next week. During this time, I have submitted a grievance which has been investigated, and dismissed as being my own fault (I will explain more about this), I have seen a counsellor and I have had blood tests for thyroid disease, which I prompted mainly because of my symptoms, but also because it is hereditary on my mums side, I am due to see my doctor on Monday morning for these results. This is the 3rd job in 2 years I will have lost due to 'my own behaviour' - I am not an angry, irrational person, but I have been just that for quite some time, if not an emotional wreck. I have struggled to deal with the most simple situations, I argue with my partner and my family, and I get overly frustrated when I can't get my point across, usually because of how cloudy my brain is, and I don't feel like I am being heard.

Things came to a head at work 4/5 weeks a go (I have been there just over a year). I lost my patience with my team leader and my manager when in a meeting to discuss my conduct; various other things have happened leading up to this point which have made me feel the need to isolate myself, of which I have done. My manager has made it fairly clear to me, on more than one occasion, that he doesn't like me, and he's made me feel uncomfortable in front of colleague's when he's said something unprofessional to me. A couple of other incidences where I have felt intimidated by other 'male' colleagues, have broken down, or I even had a panic attack at one point and went home early.

I work in a office, I coordinate planning and building control applications for an installations company - my job is quite complex, there is no-one other than myself who is trained in the process who is in the office, the lady who I took the job from last year left for maternity leave about 3 months a go. My team leader, was promoted to that post just before Christmas, she has never received any training, and she began to show a lot less support to her team (myself and 2 others) from very early on. She definitely began to treat us differently. There are 2 other areas which I am also contracted to, CAD design, and Costing, the design side of it was why I applied for the job, I have asked for further training in these areas and I have been told by my team leader that its a lot more complicated than it seems; this telling me that she thinks I would find it too difficult, and she is not willing to train me - this is when they employed 2 more people to do these roles; this is fair enough, but if I was also trained in those areas it would make me a lot more productive in my own role, as well as with the team. When I asked in a review about training, I was then told by my manager that there was no money for it so for now, I would just be doing what I had been doing. Following that meeting I began to start to look for other work, as I want to do something which I have worked hard and gained a lot of experience in order to do, and I felt that she was intentionally holding me back and preventing me from progressing.

Then the incident happened when a male colleague yelled at me, and humiliated me in front of the whole office. What happened here was I made a silly off the cuff remark to a colleague/friend about an eccles cake - due to my coeliacs I can't eat them, it was stupid comment, but of cause I didn't think before I said it. The man who bought them was in ear shot, he stormed out the office and then returned when I was then discussing a work matter, and preceded to yell in my face "get back in your f*** corner, your always complaining you winging little bitch ... f*** off back over there" - I'm sure you can understand why I had a panic attack at this point - my blood literally boiled, I yelled back, I cried and I ran away. The days that followed, I felt like everyone thought it was my fault and I deserved it, so this is when I really began to isolate myself. My team leader began to isolate me further, and I felt more and more distant from my team and the new starters who had joined us. I began to snap completely unnecessarily at people who were seeming to try to wind me up. And I let myself get frustrated too many times - I took days off sick, and I was anxious everyday whilst at work. Crying when I got back in my car at the end of day, and being tearful all the way home.

As communication had completely broken down between myself and my team leader, she began make difficult requests and demanding reports on area of my work that she didn't understand. I offered her many opportunities to raise these with me and discuss them, and allow me to show her my process so we could find a compromise, but she refused and went about it by basically over riding my work and altering my trackers etc, so that it was right for her but no longer made sense for the process - its ridiculous, but all I wanted to do was present my own work to them, teach them my process so that they could understand why I do the things in the way I do, how this makes my job productive etc. As this came to a head with my team leader, she practically deleted a lot of my work from the last 6 months, and made for a very difficult morning for me, of which she was knowingly on leave. I highlighted my concerns in an email to my manager and explained why what she had done was unreasonable and my reasons for this. He didn't read the email, he just replied and said this was not helping, my team leader can do what she wants and ask me to do anything so I must do it. Clearly not understanding my reasons, I tried to explain again, with no joy. He then arranged a meeting to iron out these issues and apparently draw a line under them. Of cause, I thought that this was my opportunity to explain my self, my behaviour, and my isolation from the office, and hopefully he would help me move past it. But no, he said it was his meeting, and regardless that I had come prepared with notes, he was going to say what he wanted. Which he did, and they were both very hostile, and I got upset, as usual, and when trying to explain why I felt the way I felt, my manager no longer liked what I was saying, stormed out, rang HR, and returned with his reasons for suspending me, there and then. No letter, no warning, no opportunity to defend myself.

I joined union that day and I spoke to a rep the next day, who talked me through what my options might be and advised me to submit a grievance for the previous issues which have led to this 'show down' .

The grievance was investigated, and the investigating manager has dismissed it as being my fault, and that my own behaviour has led me to isolate myself; the responses from the people I mentioned (team leader, manager, yelling man, and another known bully) were all fabricated, based on irrelevant information, and quite incriminating against me.

So, I'm hoping my blood tests will show thyroid disease, and I am able to get signed off sick for a few weeks, we are contracted to 4 weeks full pay a year when off sick, so at least I don't need to go through more stress of facing this disciplinary hearing on Tuesday. But how do I explain my previous behavioural problems being down to undiagnosed thyroid? Do I have any rights if I am diagnosed, which if I'm not, then I do not have a clue what is wrong with me, I'm scared I may end up sectioned at some point in my life ...

Obviously I want to work to pay the bills, I don't class myself as having a disability but if diagnosed I understand that it's best to explain this on employment. I have a positive outlook again as I am hoping for an interview next week for a new job, but I am worried about these health issues which may affect any future career a might have. And currently going through disciplinary with this job, this is always going to have a negative affect on my future. And of cause I don't want to not have an income for how ever many months it could be.

I have to add that my partner is amazing. He was there throughout my illness from coeliacs disease and he is really supportive with this. He is also hoping that this is diagnosed as thyroid disease so we can both move on and get past this.

What do you guys think? I will take any thoughts on board at this point!

Thanks in advance!

[Pow1]

Thank you. My docter's very good. As soon as i said my mum has it too, and knowing my background she booked the blood tests that same day. I believe she has covered all of the above but i will b sure to get the results too.

Your husband has some good colleagues/friends. Mine seem to want me gone no matter what.

Thanks

[Clutter]

Welcome to the forum, Powi.

Hypothyroidism and coeliac disease are manageable health conditions not disabilities. I don't think they need disclosing to an employer unless you feel they impact on your ability to do your job and you need reasonable accommodations. You certainly don't need to mention hypothyroidism before you have a diagnosis.

You should ask the union rep to support you at the disciplinary hearing.

[Pow1 in reply to Clutter]

Thank u Clutter. I will make sure i discuss this with my union again when i have diagnosis. And get all the info I need from my docter to try and suppport my case. As i have appealled the outcome of my grievance, i assume that they would need to look at that again first but I received their letter today, where as I sent my appeal on Thursday so Im a little unsure whats happening there. I havent yet mentioned any thyroid concerns i have until i can be sure.

Many thanks for your advice.

[greygoose]

I'm afraid I Don't have any helpful comments to make, I just wanted to say I can totally relate to you and what's happening to you. I'm amazed that I never got myself sacked more than I did! Can't remember how many times - 2? 3? And other places just didn't bother to renew my contract. Was my behaviour unreasonable? Looking back, yes, it was! But at the time, it seemed quite logical.

Being hypo completely changes your personality. But it's not your fault - not our fault - it's lack of an essential hormone in the brain that makes thinking, reasoning, difficult. It makes tempers short, and erodes our coping and people skills. I've lost all my friends, as well, because on top of all that, I'm extremely intolerant of other people's foibles.

So, I know what it's like, and how hard it is. And I'm so sorry this is happening to you. Stay strong, and know that you're not alone.

Hugs, Grey

[Pow1 in reply to greygoose]

Thanks Grey. Your words are comforting and very familiar!

I have found its been difficult simply explaining my coeliac disease, peoples lack of understanding and ignorance is frustrating.

I have too lost friends, but i know the ones who are worth the effort now. I never realised all my issues may be down to my thyroid though so it will be nice to finally get my health sorted.

It is a shame about career prospects though. If I knew I could confidently deal with these situations I wouldn't have anxiety about them. :-\

[Woochan]

I'm sorry you are going through this, it sounds like you are being treated very badly. I had similar symptoms until my thyroid medication was sorted out. Fortunately I worked for a charity that helps people with mental illnesses so they were very understanding about my panic attacks etc.

It sounds to me like your colleagues are trying to bully you out of your job. This is called constructive dismissal. This means that they have made life so difficult for you that you feel you have to leave. Talk to your Union rep about it or call ACAS, as it is illegal for them to do this and just the threat of an industrial tribunal might get them to back off a bit (employees usually win and it costs the employers lot of money).

I hope that your doctor can give you some answers and that you get that new job. x

[Woochan]

By the way, I benefitted from one to one counselling a huge amount when I was going through similar problems. It really helped me to get my anxiety under control and build up my self-esteem. I had been blaming myself for a long time for things that I had no control over. It could be worth asking your GP for a referral.

[shaws]

I am sorry you have had all of the distressing work problems, exacerbated most probably with hypothyroidism if you are now diagnosed.

The most important blood test (which labs don't usually do if TSH is 'normal' range) is the Free T3 blood test. If labs don't do this you can get it done privately because if our FT3 is low we cannot function. T3 is the active hormone which drives our metabolism and we need sufficient and our brain contains the most.

Some people convert levothyroxine into sufficient T3 but some need the addition of T3 itself.

Always get your blood test for thyroid hormones at the earliest and fast. (if you're on levo - leave approx 24 hours between dose and blood test and take it after). Test, is TSH, T4, T3, FT4 and FT3 and antibodies. (lab may not do the 'frees).

Ask GP to test B12, Vit D, iron, ferritin and folate too. Always get a print-out of your blood test results with the ranges so that you can post if you have a query. We are usually deficient.

[Kitten-whiskers]

Sorry to hear you are being treated like this, it doesn't sound like a very nice place to work, maybe your face will never fit. Maybe after you are feeling better health wise, starting a fresh maybe a good idea.

I was in a simillar situation a long time ago, and it made my condition worse because of all the stress and unfriendly staff, the final straw was when my boss slapped me round the head, his reason was simply he was feeling the pressure from other work collegues and the powers that be, becauase he was running the business into the ground.

At the time I had no idea why i was so ill.

As you spend so long at work it is important to find a good company to work for that will treat you like a human being and not a machine. Their is not a single person in the world that has behaved perfectly, we have all said things we never meant, or over reacted to something but you should not be sworn at - they are showing there true colours.

I hope things go well with the doctor : > and good luck if you do go for a different job - they are some really good companies to work for.

Best wishes

[Pow1]

Thank you all for your kind words. It is comforting to know I am not alone, and I'm not making this up, as most people make me feel.

I am certainly hoping for a diagnosis tomorrow. I will be sure to check the tests too.

I have spoken to a councillor a couple of times, shes very good but I believe I must sort medication out as well as talk to someone, as one process.

Mant thanks for all your help

I'll keep you updated tomorrow when I have seen the doctor.

[puffyface]

It definitely sounds like a case of constructive dismissal to me. I suggest you take some advice on this whatever your test results. Good luck, it sounds awful. X

[Muffy]

Did you have your blood drawn early in the day?

[Pow1 in reply to Muffy]

I had actually had a blood test that week, for something different/irrelevant, but i cant remember if it was the same day.. All the other tests have been while I have been suspended. I had allergy tests done earlier in the year and blood tests then.

Why? Do you think there may be a link?

[humanbean in reply to Pow1]

To get a diagnosis of hypothyroidism using the rules applied by the NHS, the patient must have a high TSH.

TSH has a circadian rhythm. See the graphs on page 2 of this paper :

press.endocrine.org/doi/pdf...

To get the highest possible TSH you must :

a) Get the blood drawn as early in the morning as possible, and definitely before 9am.

b) Have the blood drawn while fasting i.e. don't eat, or drink anything except water, on the day until after the blood draw.

c) If you take thyroid meds, don't take them for 24 hours before the blood draw.

[Eddie83]

HypothyroidMom.com has repeatedly posted an article documenting that hypothyroid often masks as psychiatric disorder. Assuming your thyroid test(s) show abnormality, you should also use that article against your boss. It's also a great idea as mentioned above, to avoid taking thyroid before your test so you are a little more hypothyroid on tests. If you have Hashi's, make sure to mention that too - loudly.

Sounds like your boss is a jackass. Obviously has no empathy for anyone with disability or chronic illness. This is exactly the situation I was in 5 years ago. My (female) supervisor even had a daughter with hypothyroidism (so you'd think she'd understand it), and she also knew I was the parent of a child with severe disability, but she tried to put me on disciplinary action. I just said 'screw it' and agreed to retire because I was close enough to retirement age that I figured I could handle it financially. This is typical of what happens to hypoT people, it is hard to be appropriately assertive and aggressive when low thyroid.

[1133]

This was exactly what happened to me as well, a few years back - I was there for 10 years, they let everybody go, leaving me to do the job myself - I couldn't keep up, they had me working from 5AM - 11PM or later 5-7 days a week... I began to get sick, isolate myself, sit in my office with the light off, door locked, snap at people... when I got sick, I filed for short-term disability, and they fired me instead, denied my severance pay; I couldn't get unemployment... Getting out of that job was the best thing that could have happened to me... but staying there as long as I did really took its toll on my adrenals and thyroid. It's been 5 years and I'm still recovering. When this happens, it is a threat to your survival, because in this world we need money to get by. People threatening your livelihood is a serious matter. Bad enough to have thyroid problems to begin with - but the severity of this kind of stress - to make things worse - raises cortisol levels tremendously, which means that thyroid hormone can't even get into the cells, much less convert properly into T3. Even after you get out of the stressful environment, you can even end up with PTSD, as I did, from the constant bullying from those who were empowered to control your livelihood - your survival.

When this happens, you need to address not only your physical health - but you also need to address the emotional trauma. As long as you feel threatened by the thought of working for any employer again, your body will not allow healing to take place. Body follows mind. The mental and emotional harm must absolutely be addressed along with the physical damage.

I'm currently seeing three therapists in addition to my physical therapist and doctors. I'm receiving EMDR for PTSD, hypnotherapy for early life/developmental trauma (which is the damage done by parents that created the pattern of being victimized by others, such as employers and abusive partners in life), and a counselor, where I can express whatever I need to express (which is very healing for the thyroid, on the energetic/metaphysical level), without judgment. I suggest that you consider similar therapy in addition to working on your thyroid and celiac dis-ease. Don't underestimate what is truly a traumatic experience. This is a whole lot that you're going through, and you deserve FULL recovery, wellness, and peace.

Wishing you all the very best, with lots of hugs and support.

[Fruitandnutcase]

Regardless if whatever medical problems you may or may not have the treatment you have been subjected to is absolutely appalling and there is nothing that can excuse it. Someone mentioned constructive dismissal - I can't see them having a leg to stand on should you end up at an industrial tribunal.

I don't suppose by any chance you have been building up evidence of what happened along with dates and times and witnesses? If you haven't could you make a list of as many incidences as you can now then start keeping notes on anything that happens from now on?

If you aren't in a union where a union rep should support you I think you are entitled to take a friend with you to the disciplinary procedure - don't go alone! Your 'friend' / supporter may be ablype to take notes - not 100% sure on that though.

Many years ago my younger son had a disciplinary meeting over something absolutely ridiculous and totally untrue, my husband went along with him and took a family friend who was wearing a suit who knew about employment law ( he was not a lawyer) First of all my son's manager didn't want to let the friend in - that didn't work, then he said the friendcp could come in but he didn't want him taking notes (friend didnt) Needless to say it was made clear that what my son had been accused of was a complete load of rubbish and the accusations were dropped right away. A couple of days later someone mentioned to my son that 'his father and his fathers lawyer didn't half sort the manager out' word had gone round that the friend was a lawyer. No one ever told anyone that he wasn't. I must say that the same manager held a staff meeting, they all went in and the heading on the overhead projector said 'Guess who's got the sack?' He then pulled down a bit of card to reveal the poor guy's name! I can't remember the ins and outs of it all but the poor guy hadn't done anything particularly deserving of dismissal and no one ever deserves to have that happen to him. The manager was clearly a graduate from the Attila the Hun school of management - he clearly had NO idea of how to manage.

So start keeping that list of events, times, places and witnesses to your grievances, take along a very smartly dressed friend - with a briefcase and notepad, just say the person is a friend don't explain exactly who they are, let the management figure it out for themselves, in the meantime get your thyroid checked out and the best of luck, hopefully in the near future you will a job you like and where you are happy. 😊

[Pow1 in reply to Fruitandnutcase]

Thank you. My union suggested submitting a grievance when I was suspended, this was investigated and dismisseda being my own fault. Or my own behaviour was what led me to isolate myself. I have appealed this as I still think that it was the actions of others which made me act badly, in their eyes, and then i isolated myself.

They have said that i can bring a colleague with me with prior notice, i recieved the letter on saturday and the meeting is on tuesday. And also i have to drive from sheffield to bradford for it too so an hour away! So i think the short notice will cause a problem.

I am hoping for my gp to diagnose me tomorrow and with any luck i will get signed off so i can deal with this before battling with work.

Ill let you all know tomorrow. Thanks to you all though!

[Fruitandnutcase in reply to Pow1]

Fingers crossed your doctor signs you off.

I think it's a bit difficult taking a colleague with you. If they side with and support you their days are numbered, if they don't support you then there's no point in taking them.

I really can't see any way the management can condone one member of staff yelling in another's face and telling you to f*** off etc. that is really shocking and absolutely inexcusable.

I always thought you could take a 'friend' as support.

Good luck tomorrow.

[Pow1]

Hi All, just an update on my results, they seem to have come back normal - something about being in the middle, ranging up to 4.6 and I am at 2.8 so he says this is normal. I broke down of cause because I really wanted this to be it. He said that the way I am feeling is very similar with depression, and he has given me some medication to try and lighten my mood. Not sure I want to start with anxiety tablets though. I have spoken to my councillor and she is insistent I am not depressed, and that it is circumstantial as to why I am feeling like this.

The doctor has signed me off for a week with stress and anxiety, so this means I don't have to attend this disciplinary hearing tomorrow. He is also more than willing to sign me off again next week if I still feel on edge.

I have health cover so I have arranged for a second opinion on my results and hopefully have a specialist look in to it further. I will know more about this on Wednesday when they call.

Still not really any the wiser on this now ... I'm shocked that this has come back normal, with all my symptoms, and listening to your story's I was positive this was what it is, and getting treated would make me feel better.

And I'm just waiting for the 'new job' to call me back again to arrange this interview - so fingers crossed I get that this week and then I can take great pleasure in sending my resignation!

Thanks all!

[Clutter in reply to Pow1]

Powi, it's BTA protocols which your GP is guided by that deem TSH 2.8 to be within normal range and withholds a primary hypothyroid diagnosis until TSH is >4.6.

TSH is a pituitary hormone so it would be helpful to have the thyroid hormones, FT4 and FT3, tested. If either FT4 or FT3 are below range this would indicate secondary hypothyroidism (pituitary dysfunction) and command treatment. You can order private thyroid tests from Blue Horizon and Genova via thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/testin... It is worth ordering one of the thyroid panels which includes thyroid antibodies to confirm or rule out autoimmune thyroid disease (Hashimoto's).

Depression can be a symptom of hypothyroidism. Citalopram may or may not help but don't feel obliged to take it if you feel you are not depressed.

[Pow1 in reply to Clutter]

Hi Great, thank you. I can get a second opinion through Westfield health, but I don't think I am entitled to private screening through them. They will simply assess me and gain access to my records so a specialist can diagnose.

I gather that I would have to pay for these tests?

Many thanks though. I will look in to it further. ..

[Clutter in reply to Pow1]

Powi, I think BH thyroid panel will cost about £89 after the TUK discount.

[Pow1 in reply to Clutter]

I have just spoken to bluehorizon and they asked me to email all the info for them to assess etc... thank you so much for your help. £89 seems a lot, but this is fine for my health!

[Pow1 in reply to Clutter]

I suppose I have to join thyroid uk too?

[Clutter in reply to Pow1]

Pow1, it's not obligatory to join Thyroid UK to use the discount.

[Marz]

thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/testin...

As you can see a TSH of >2 can suggest Hypothyroidism. Print and show your Doc....

[Pow1 in reply to Marz]

That's very helpful, thank you. I think when you are faced with a GP you find yourself trusting their views so much. As I broke down and he knows I have good days because of times I have seen him before, and he also knows now I have bad days, but these are more often than not - he has put it down to depression, due to these symptoms/feelings etc.

He has given me a course of CITALOPRAM to 'lighten my mood' but I am dubious about taking them if they might contradict my results ... i don't know.

I am getting a second opinion from a specialist through my health cover, they will be calling to assess me on Wednesday morning, but the above info defo contradicts my GPs opinion on this .....

Thanks a lot for that. I will print it out and keep it with me from now on.

I am due to see my GP again in 3 weeks, giving chance for this medication to take effect. But I will certainly arrange to speak to him again this week now I have this info.

Many thanks

[Marz in reply to Pow1]

My personal opinion is that it is the untreated thyroid causing the problem. Strange when you think there is not a blood test for depression and pills are handed out effortlessly ( Surgeries are financially rewarded when they tick the Mental Health Box ) ... Yet when an incomplete Thyroid Blood test shows up borderline - medication is refused. Sadly not enough money to be earned for the surgery

Western medicine is in a mess - treating the symptoms and not the cause is a BIG earner for Big Pharma. A bit like the Greek problem - I live in Crete.

[Pow1 in reply to Marz]

Lovely .. this is nice to know ... Ha ha ... I am very grateful that my health is being decided depending on funding/targets and money etc .....

LOL! you have to laugh, if anything to prevent the crying!

Fingers crossed for my second opinion and further tests then!

Thank you again

[2pence]

Hi Pow1

I am glad that your GP signed you off today as it means that you do not have to attend the meeting set for tomorrow. Do you have a copy of your employer's disciplinary procedure - it should have been given to you when you started with them or be available to you on their website - as this will say what procedure will be followed by them. Also check with ACAS as they have the basic procedure that should be followed with some employers enhancing this. ACAS say a union rep or a colleague but often that is not feasible so when holding meetings I always allowed a friend ( as a Councillor I was Chair of the Personnel Committee for a local council so acted as the HR some years ago). I would also expect that the disciplinary procedure will say that you have to be given reasonable notice for a meeting and this is often 5 working days. As you say that if you do attend a meeting with them it is at a different site then it may be that it would be possible to ask for a "colleague" from their to be with you as it is not going to be possible to ask anyone who works with you. Are your union prepared to attend with you as often they won't if you only join when there is a problem. If you feel that you can't ask any "colleague" then I would press for a friend as to expect you to attend a meeting of this sort without support is against the rules of natural justice.

I hope that this helps although it is a few years since I have been involved in HR and I hope that you are able to get help from your health insurance and feel better soon.

Penni