Hashimotos, long-term use of just Levo and chorlesterol.

[millefleur40]

I have recently read up (Stop the Thyroid Madness and Dr P book) and wondered what people thought about the issue with Cholesterol problems resulting from taking T4 only for many years? This seems to be a Hashi issue. My GP has never mentioned this, I have never had a cholesterol test. I am nearly 45 and have been on T4 levo only for 21 years. I am also concerned about extra risk of diabetes, again never been informed or tested, despite seeing more of my GP with symptoms of hashi.

[greygoose]

Personally, I Don't see cholesterol as any sort of problem. It doesn't cause heart attacks, despite what they say. It is a necessary nutrient. Our brains are made of cholesterol and our hormones are made of cholesterol. Where's the problem?

I'm afraid we've all been badly conned about fat and cholesterol, by a money-grabbing Big Pharma wanting to make even more money from statins, at the cost of our health.

But the truth is that those that have the highest cholesterol live the longest. And those that have the lowest are more prone to heart attacks and low testosterone - and that's no fun, believe me!

[humanbean in reply to greygoose]

I totally agree with greygoose.

Also, statins increase the risk of diabetes and lots of other unpleasant conditions, including congestive heart failure, rhabdomyolysis, muscle pain, dementia, memory problems and cataracts.

High cholesterol isn't only associated with Hashi's. I've never had positive antibodies and my cholesterol is usually between 7 and 8. I've refused statins twice, and I would have to be held down and force fed them before I would take them.

[millefleur40 in reply to humanbean]

Thank you both for your posts. I hadnt really thought about high cholesterol yet. Its only all the recent reading up about hashi/ thyroid that drew my attention to it (Dr Tofts book mentions cholesterol in the sense of angina pain, hardening/blocked arteries....). So annoyed that no-one tells you anything when you are diagnosed with thyroid problems, more underactive or hashi I suppose but its like here you go just take this little magic pill every day (free prescriptions, lucky girl), and you will feel fine again!!

[greygoose in reply to millefleur40]

They Don't tell you much about it because they Don't know much about it, and would soon find themselves tied in knots if they tried to explain.

Dr Toft, in my personal opinion, is a bit of an odd-ball. Anyway, he's been proved totally wrong about cholesterol by recent research. Cholesterol in the arteries is there in the guise of a sticking plaster to patch up damaged areas of the tubes, caused by inflammation. If you want to avoid inflammation, make sure you get plenty of vit C - oodles of vit C - and other anti-inflammataries such as Astaxanthin, or curcumin.

Cholesterol, in and of itself, has never caused anyone pain. But doctors have been brain-washed by drug reps to see cholesterol as public enemy n° 1, necessitating loads of medication - statins - it's all a Big Pharma plot!

I have never heard anyone say that taking Levo raised cholesterol levels. How would it do that? It would only do it by keeping you hypo - too low a dose, conversion problems, etc - but I Don't see how T4 itself can raise cholesterol. But I could be wrong. If so, please send me the science. I really think we ought to be very wary about what we read on STTP. They tend to be slightly biased on certain subjects, and they are very anti synthetic T4.

[shaws Administrator]

You may be fortunate and levo has reduced your cholesterol level. A higher cholesterol is a clinical symptoms of hypothyroidism but if on optimum medication it usually reduces.

Don't worry unduly but do take account of your symptoms rather than the doctor telling you you're fine because your TSH is 'normal'. Ideally TSH should be around 1 or below or suppressed. I believe if we are undertreated with levo we might well develop other problems but if on an optimum dose you should be o.k.These are a couple of hints when you go for your thyroid hormone blood test:-

Blood Test: Have the earliest possible appointment . Leave 24 hours since last dose of levo and test as it may skew results and fast. Take levo after test.

Take thyroid hormones on wakening and wait approx 1 hour before eating. Some foods interfere with medication. I leave 4 hours between hormones and supplements which I have at lunchtime. Some prefer bedtime dosing, in that case you must leave 2 hours after eating before taking hormones. If you've had a fatty meal it should be longer. Food can interfere with the uptake.

Ask for Vitamin B12, Vit D, iron, ferritin and folate to be tested. They should be towards the upper range as they are usually deficient in hypo."

Doctors, these days, are unaware of clinical symptoms (before the blood tests and levo we were medicated according to our symptoms only and with NDT.

It's not too late to read and learn to make sure you are on an optimum. Many people do fine on levothyroxine for many years.

[millefleur40 in reply to shaws]

Thats really helpful, shaws, thank you. Last bloods done at hospital were t3 4.4 (3.1-6.8), t4 21.1 (12.0-22.0), TSH 0.23 (0.27-4.20) low. Apparently they werent too bad, GP said all good, in range. But I still feel rubbish! She did say t4 high so to come down from 125mcg to alternate 125/100mcg. I never took 125mcg as I was experiencing palps, high anxiety, inner trembling, terrible fatigue, migraines etc. Had been taking some vitamins for a while and noticed my t4 went up. Take bio- kult probiotic, vit c 500mg, zinc 110 mg, magnesium 266 mg, vit d3 25ug, selenium 280mcg (rattle rattle). Has this caused up overflow of T4?

[shaws Administrator in reply to millefleur40]

If your T4 is quite 'high' it could be due to the fact that it's not converting sufficiently into T3. T3 has to get into the receptor cells as it is the Active hormone (T4 inactive) to enable us to function.

I suppose it's a bit like putting petrol in a car but it wont go because you don't press the pedal.

I don't understand why she said the T4 is 'high'. After all it is in the range?

Adjusting medication is not justified if she is only going by the blood test results. A link and read the first question. At the top of the page are other topics but links within may not work as the site is archived as Dr Lowe died two years ago:

web.archive.org/web/2010103...

[millefleur40 in reply to shaws]

Exactly what I said to my GP when she got sent the results! I think my t4 is not converting to t3. Her response was '"well it obviously is because your t3 is 4.4"! I now know t3 should be in upper part of range to feel better. But im at the end of my rope with GPs. They seriously dont seem to know anything about anything! If you mention any information you've read they get all huffy and practically chuck you out

[shaws Administrator in reply to millefleur40]

As they are the 'professionals' they do get annoyed if we try to engage in a conversation of why we're not feeling better (particularly if we mention internet). All they go by is the blood tests and the whereabouts of the results and forget there is a person opposite them who is relying on them to know more than them and get their health back. After all it's only 'hormones' we need but we need sufficient. I wonder if they are aware that it is the conversion to T3 that we need. One doctor has said that T4 is like a can of beans, if we cannot open it to access the beans it's useless.

This is another link from the same site.

web.archive.org/web/2010103...

[greygoose in reply to millefleur40]

millefleur, that's not much vit C. You could easily doube that! You can't overt-dose on vit C, because it's water-soluable, but Don't take too much in one go because the body can't absorb too much at a time. Take it in 2 or more doses.

The vit C could have improved your absorbtion of T4, but you're still not converting much of that T4 to T3. Your doctor is an idiot! Of course you're converting some, but not enough. Honestly, where do they keep their brains when they're at work? In a desk draw??? It's not good enough to be just in range, it has to be at the top of the range. Damn ranges!

You could increase your magnesium, too. About 350 is good. Some people say more. And what about your B12? That is so very, very important.

Palps, anxiety, etc can be caused by too low a dose, as well as too high. But i think you're probably suffering from all that unused T4 swilling around and up to mischief. What would probably be good for you would be a lowered dose of T4 with the addition of some T3.

Or, have you ever had your cortisol tested? Because low cortisol will cause trembling and anxiety.