Gone cold turkey from Armour got frightened with my symptoms

Hi guys,

I stopped taking Armour on Saturday so this is the 3rd day of not taking anything at all. I was on 3.5 grains a day.

I have been suffering recently with very bad sweats even if I just exert myself a little and it has been pouring off of me. I also have been very stressed, had insomnia and have been eating way too much (all possible symptoms of overmedicating (Mary Shomon)). I woke up on Saturday and just thought 'feck it lets not take anything and see what happens'. I'm doing better than I thought! I have had a few palpitations but definitely feel calmer (though that could be because of a bank holiday weekend I'm having) So I guess the question is what next? my thought process with this is my RT3 is high and my adrenals are low (though is the sweating me sorting the RT3 stuff out?), I have to flush the T4 out of my system and get something to fix my adrenals (which I've also read is best to do before going on the thyroid meds) I am going to phone Dr Peatfield tomorrow and see about a telephone apt as I live in Ireland. I have posted my TFTs and adrenal saliva before but happy to put up again if it helps. I just had enough and thought what I'm doing is not working I have to try something else. Thank you to people who have private messaged me and helped before. I guess I just threw something new into the mix :)

Any ideas/thoughts?

30 Replies

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  • Maybe you were a little bit overdosed? How did you feel on a lower dose of Armour, i.e. 3 or 2.5 gr.

  • Hi Shaws! Hard to remember. I started on 3.5 last November. Before that I was probably the classic "dose is raised feel better and then the slump again after". I had awful vertigo that stopped me in my tracks and I thought it was my thyroid but maybe its adrenals?

  • I would reduce dose slightly and see how you feel. 1gr of NDT is equal in effect to 100 levo (I assume as it has T3 in it). So 3gr NDT = 300mcg levo plus 1/2gr NDT = 50mcg levo = 350 levo. Don't go Cold Turkey or you may have bad effects of doing this.

  • Hi Sounds like you were overdosed.You really need TSH, T4 and Freet3 done to know. GP or on line, I use Blue Horizon, can be all DIY, quote TUK 10 for a discount.

    Jackie

  • Hi Jackie sorry for late reply. I have that info plus RT3 plus Adrenal saliva

    30/07/2014

    Vit D: 72 (50-125) (according to Vit D council this is the insufficient to deficient range)

    B12 (2012): 547 (191-663)

    Ferritin (2012): 66 (13-150)

    TSH: <0.05 (0.15-3.2)

    T4 free: 15.8 (9.9-20.1)

    T3 free: 6 (2.7-7)

    RT3: 0.40 (0.14-0.54)

    Thyroid Peroxidase Antibody: 267 (TPO range <35) (Im confused over this one. Does this show HypoT or HyperT and any idea why the test is TPA but ref range given is TPO?)

    Genova Adrenal Saliva Test

    9 am: 19.8 (12-22)

    1 pm: 4.5 (5-9)

    5 pm: 3.9 (3-7)

    12 am: 1.2 (1-3)

    Total Daily cortisol: 29.4 (21-41)

    DHEA mean 0.22 (0.40-1.47)

    DHEA:Cortisol ratio: 0.75 (2-6)

  • Hi D is low, hormonal but only safe to take with a calcium test, vital calcium stays in range.You have not had iron done, a separate test.It should also be high.B12 is low for that range but tablets will not alter it,injections are used.Those thyroid ranges look perfect.T he only good cortisone test is done through a doctor. 24 hour urine collection with a cortisone tablet at midnight and blood test at 9am.

    Best wishes,

    Jackie

  • I agree with the others, it sounds like you were overdosing, but you need to be careful, if you dont start taking them again at a lower dose you will completely crash, and have to start from scratch again.

    Hope Dr P is helpful tomorrow/today

  • Hi susy mac, Im on 1.5 now and maintaining. Can't get through to Doc P :(

  • Did you originally start on a lower dose and build up to 3.5 ?

    Doing my sums as I'm also on Armour at the moment......1 grain = 38mcgs T4 + 36(9x4) T3 = 74 mcgs.

    Multiply x 3.5 would put you on the equivalent of 259 mcgs Levothyroxine.

    Is this considered a high dose?

    I'm only on 1.5 grains and my body temperature readings have certainly risen from the lower 36s up to 36.8 - 37.

    Hope you get it sorted as I know what a pain it is trying to get the right level of dosage + taking the right brand .

  • Hi Marfit,

    The conversion chart from RLC labs who do naturethroid and westhroid have this chart:-

    nature-throid.com/images/RL...

    nature-throid.com/

  • Thanks Shaws.......yes I have seen that chart before.

    I was actually taking my figure work from my Armour tablet bottle and patient leaflet though. ( Forest Pharmaceuticals)

    The bottle states 1 grain( 60 mg) contains 38mcg Levothyroxine (T4) and

    9mcg Liothyronine.(T3)

    The Patient leaflet states :

    Note: T3 Liothyronine is approximately 4 times as potent as T4 Levothyroxine on a microgram for microgram basis.

  • You don't sound overdosed to me. I would not have stopped Armour cold turkey. I would have just gone done a dose. You sound like you might be pooling to me with T3 not getting into your cells. I would have tested TSH, fT3, fT4 (reverse T3 if you are able) and do a 24 hour cortisol test.

    If adrenal is an issue treat your highs and lows appropriately not just take glandulars which seems like what everyone jumps too when that may not be the correct course of treatment. STTM has a good guide to treating adrenals.

  • Hi PEacefulbliss, Below are my most recent results. TFTs, RT3 and adrenal saliva. I have contacted Dr P to get a phone consultation but its engaged! I'm sure he's very much in demand!

    30/07/2014

    Vit D: 72 (50-125) (according to Vit D council this is the insufficient to deficient range)

    B12 (2012): 547 (191-663)

    Ferritin (2012): 66 (13-150)

    TSH: <0.05 (0.15-3.2)

    T4 free: 15.8 (9.9-20.1)

    T3 free: 6 (2.7-7)

    RT3: 0.40 (0.14-0.54)

    Thyroid Peroxidase Antibody: 267 (TPO range <35) (Im confused over this one. Does this show HypoT or HyperT and any idea why the test is TPA but ref range given is TPO?)

    Genova Adrenal Saliva Test

    9 am: 19.8 (12-22)

    1 pm: 4.5 (5-9)

    5 pm: 3.9 (3-7)

    12 am: 1.2 (1-3)

    Total Daily cortisol: 29.4 (21-41)

    DHEA mean 0.22 (0.40-1.47)

    DHEA:Cortisol ratio: 0.75 (2-6)

  • It is a shame you went off Armour your numbers look optimal to me. You were not over medicated. What is making you feel unwell is your adrenals. You are normal (high), low, high, low. You do need to keep supplementing with vitamin D.

    You need to supplement to sort your adrenals out. You could take seriphos or Holy Basil during the times your cortisol are high at 5pm and take Ashwanganda to even out your levels. STTM has a good guide which explains what you need to take depending on your highs and lows. I have attached it below.

    I am on 3 1/2 grains (4 grains as of today) and am working on my adrenals.

    stopthethyroidmadness.com/a...

  • Hi Peacefulandbliss, Thanks for the help. I bought Ashgawadha today and a vit c vit b with rhodiola and siberian ginseng too. Brands: Pukka Ashwagandha and Terra Nova B vitamin complex with Vitamin C (also has Rhodiola and siberian ginsing) but not sure how much to take.! Just what it says on the labels as STTM says?

  • You should take it at the times you are low at 1pm and at night. You haven't bought anything for when you are highly at 5pm but these two may levels your highs and lows out without it. I would take the dose on the bottle and see how you feel. Some people take their temperature to guide if they need to increase the dose (not sure how that works).

  • me neither! Thanks :)

  • (Im confused over this one. Does this show HypoT or HyperT and any idea why the test is TPA but ref range given is TPO?)

    TPO is a common abbreviation for Thyroid PerOxidase. You see lots of oddities in short-names of tests.

    The TPO antibodies result says nothing about your thyroid hormone levels.

    Rod

  • But it does show I have an autoimmune disease. Is that right?

  • A positive TPO antibody test does usually indicate autoimmune thyroid disease. Occasionally they are observed after physical damage to the thyroid (surgery, seat-belt injury, something like that) but then they are usually only temporary and reduce as time goes by.

    It is important, though, that a negative (or uncertain "maybe") result does not mean you have NOT got autoimmune thyroid disease.

    Rod

  • Thanks Rod, when I had the first TPO test it was over 1000 so its a bit better! :)

  • Hi, I had a similar effect after going up by half a grain up to 3 grain NDT. I am aware that not tolerating this dose if probably due to still low iron levels (been supplementing just over a year now). So, I cut back to 2.5 and trying to sort out the iron issues in order to increase.

  • Hi Inna that will probably be my next step, though my adrenals are low so will sort those first. more money!

  • Yeah, but feeling good again is so worth it! Good luck!

  • Do not go cold turkey you can eventually go into a coma if you stop thyroid medication. I would suggest cutting down to 2 tablets. As the post above says for a guideline go by what levothyroxine you were on, I was on 100 and I am on 2 grains of Armour.

  • Science would dictate that you will be in a world of bother by going cold turkey , you need thyroid meds to function

    It may well be that as you are on slightly too much medication , it is suppressing your TSH, in a functioning body with no thyroid issues TSH will rise just after midnight , this drives the bodies conversion of T4 to T3 a couple of hours later , in turn the adrenal glands start working hardest at about the time you would naturally be producing the most t3 , as your TSH is constantly low this process isn't working , and low lower levels of cortisol can be the result (depending on how robust your body is or good cortisol levels were before ) the result of a consistently low TSH is struggling adrenals and high RT3

    The only way of lowering RT3 is to lower T4 intake until it's back to normal and then slowly reintroduce

    T4

    If you suspect high RT3 and low cortisol , one way of resolving it (probably quickest) is to go T3 only for 12 weeks to kick out the Rt3 and while dosing the T3 use the CT3M method by Paul Robinson , you take your first dose a minimum of 1.5 hours before you get up (but no more than 4 hours before as the effects can be greater the further back you go) this feeds the adrenals the T3 they would have got when you were well

  • Hi thanks Stuart. I do have high RT3 and low Cortisol and DHEA. Im trying to get hold of Dr Peatfield (hopefully tomorrow) I don't really know how to get T3 only meds which I would like to try. I'll be honest I feel great right now which I was not expecting

  • You won't feel great for long if you are hypo , it's very temporary , lots try the same and then crash quite badly

    If you want T3 you can buy it yourself quite cheaply and easily online , if you want my top up source I will PM you

    If you have a spare £17 I would buy Recovering with T3 by Paul Robinson

    It's a great book that explains all you will ever need to know about thyroid , adrenals and supplements that help

    If you go to his Facebook page you can sometimes get his input on your problems too , I'm currently working with him clearing T4 and going T3 only while sorting my low cortisol

  • Bexy,

    I would dare to suggest you are feeling great as you were feeling the effects of being over-medicated 'til last weekend. We need less Summertime & a little more Wintertime.

    I have seen others just come off - at their later peril 'tho. No-one recommends this.

    But it's JUST a hormone or 2? yeh right) - which ever way you're taking it - the body hangs onto it as much as possible, it needs it - you probably won't feel any effect for a week or so - then bang, you will find out. Trust me it's not nice, and you have to start the procedure all over again, one step at a time.

    Are you abstaining because you're checking/hoping your thyroid needs to 'kick in' again?

    I take NDT at night with a little boost of T3 in the morning to get me through the day..

    It's not perfect (never was or expected to be) - try changing, but please don't go 'cold turkey'

    J :D

  • Normal labs, 5cm goiter, was on 30mg Armour for 9 months. Quit cold turkey 2 months ago after high bp. Started back yesterday, as muscles, joints, neck, all hurt, and read that's a symptom of needing thyroid replacement. Have I done any damage to myself? I had no idea that stopping could cause health issues. I was getting dizzy and just wanted a break. More to story, but basically just want to know about chances of damage to my body and what to look out for. Thank you!

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