hashimotos?

[sallypg]

just got some results back and need help, does this mean I have hashis?

Thyroglobulin Antibody 17.5 (range 1 - 115)

Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies 22.7 (range 0 - 34)

[Clutter]

No, Sallypg, your hypothyroidism isn't caused by Hashimoto's. Antibodies have to be positive ie over the range to have autoimmune thyroid disease.

[sallypg]

HI Clutter which one is the hashi's test? I've read so many contrasting opinions, some say to have any antibodies is a sign of Hashi's in that they will get worse?

[Clutter in reply to sallypg]

Sally, both tests are for Hashimoto's. Apparently most of us have some Tg and TPO autoimmune antibodies but they aren't seen as problematic and aren't a diagnosis unless they're over the range.

[sallypg in reply to Clutter]

So people without thyroid problems also have these if tested? (referring to your most of us being thyroid patients or everyone)

[Clutter in reply to sallypg]

Probably most people, Sally.

[sallypg in reply to Clutter]

well I hope it stays that way, dont want the lil fekkers getting out of control

[Clutter in reply to sallypg]

Are you taking Levothyroxine, Sally? That can help keep them in the their place.

[sallypg in reply to Clutter]

On nothing at the moment

[Clutter in reply to sallypg]

Sally, 100mcg selenium is good for thyroid health. Can be taken as 2 x Brazil nuts daily.

[sallypg in reply to Clutter]

thanks!

[Ansteynomad]

I have been after some clarification on this for some time.

I can see that antibodies over range are a clear sign of Hashis, but if you have antibodies, but they are in range, doesn't that just mean that they are under control, or not active, at that particular point?

[sallypg in reply to Ansteynomad]

I"ve googled for clarification and it just gets more confusing.

[helvella Administrator in reply to sallypg]

My understanding is that these antibodies are made when your immune system detects Thyroglobulin or Thyroid peroxidase in your bloodstream. As these substances should only be found in your thyroid, them being detected in your bloodstream suggests that some of the content of your thyroid cells/interior is getting spilled into the bloodstream.

Occasionally small amounts of thyroid cell/interior can get there because of things as simple as physical damage - a classic being a car seat belt after a minor collision. Or any form of operation near or on the thyroid.

High levels of these antibodies, especially continuously high over long periods, are unlikely to occur except when there is autoimmune attack on the thyroid.

That is why these antibodies are regarded as being strong evidence for autoimmune thyroid disease - whether it is called Hashimoto's or not.

Rod

[sallypg in reply to helvella]

Hi Rod, so do the ranges differentiare between this small amount that could be found and a larger amount that indicate autoimmune? I did have a very bad whiplash injury a few years ago. How long would this small amount stay in the system? Do we only clarify hadhis when this small amount gets worse? Should i check it every couple of months, once a year? Sorry for all the questions! Dont expect all to be answered , just raising stuff i am concerned about

[helvella Administrator in reply to sallypg]

It is precisely to allow for the odd thyroid cell getting damaged and resulting in a low level of antibodies that we have the reference ranges. (And that lab tests always have a margin of error - for example, they cannot definitively say "zero" but have to have an allowance.)

In autoimmune thyroid disease the levels are usually massively above the top of the range - at least at its most active.

I have no idea how long antibodies remain detectable after injury - I think I read months for surgery.

I can't see you getting tested every couple of months. In so many ways treatment is pretty much the same but it is very useful to know where the problem is coming from.

Rod

[sallypg in reply to helvella]

Im not on any treatment other than for adrenal fatigue, taking supplements. Then I dont have to be concerned about hashis or auto immunity issues with the small levels I have? I did have a test in december and they just said it was negative hut no numbers, so when my new doc ordered this test was a bit shocked to see actual numbers this time.

[helvella Administrator in reply to sallypg]

The Thyroid Peroxidase test is in that area which suggests the possibility of early autoimmune and should, in my view, see a repeat at some point - maybe next year.

[sallypg in reply to helvella]

Ooh yukky. Will have to swallow lots of selenium as clutter suggest

[helvella Administrator in reply to sallypg]

Well, some selenium, maybe. But Clutter and I are careful to suggest lower doses than many others. My view is that 100mcg should be fine but it wouldn't worry me if someone started on 200mcg for a few months then lowered to 100mcg. I tend to be much happier about taking it in some sort of bound form like Brazil nuts.

[MidnightBlue in reply to helvella]

Could I ask why you suggest lower doses of selenium? I am taking 400 mcg a day as I read that is the level to help reduce thyroid antibodies. If is all so confusing.

[helvella Administrator in reply to MidnightBlue]

There is too much "if one is good, two must be better". Sometimes with justification, but often without.

This link suggests that 400mcg a day is the "tolerable upper limit".

ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/S...

Now remember that unless you are on an unusual diet, you will be getting some selenium without your 400mcg supplement. So that puts you over their upper limit.

That page has a section on Health Risks from Excessive Selenium. Some very unpleasant effects.

Further, some recent research is questioning the use of selenium "to prevent prostate cancer" and other similar ideas.

There are times when I feel caution is appropriate.

Yes, it really is all so confusing.

Rod

[sallypg in reply to helvella]

hi I'm already taking 100 mg of selenium, so think I will just stick with it, I am careful of nuts as I read Dr Wilson's book on adrenal fatigue and rancid nuts are just no good for you. I do eat nuts that look good but any nuts that look too shiny are apparently rancid according to his book.

I have just started eating rye bread again because I was feeling starved of carbs, probably not a good idea considering the antibodies thing now, I guess..

[MidnightBlue in reply to helvella]

Thanks for the info. I am vegan, and don't eat as many nuts as I should, but will probably go for 200mcg instead of 400. 2 less pills to swallow each night, yippee!

[helvella Administrator in reply to MidnightBlue]

I hope that, as a vegan, you are keeping a beady eye on your B12 intake!

[MidnightBlue in reply to helvella]

Yes, have not had it tested yet, but I take mega strength methyl B12. Am thinking about swapping to the spray if I can find one that is gluten free and vegan. You should see me in the health store, it is like a scene from Little Britain with the man asking for the pirate memory game, "Do you have any B12? No not that one, it is not gluten free, no that one has dairy, that is the wrong form, and that one does not explicitly state it is soya free..."

[Clutter in reply to Ansteynomad]

Anstey, I think it means they're not active when they're within range.

[sallypg in reply to Clutter]

well I like your version Clutter

[Clutter in reply to sallypg]

[faith63]

You can have a negative blood test and still have Hashi's. Some people only get their diagnosis through a biopsy of their thyroid.