My trial with sodium butyrate, a short chain fatty acid (scfa) and sodium propionate, also a SCFA

[Meleber]

Trying, at least for one month, to supplement sodium butyrate. I have done some reading and although I don't understand everything, supplementing butyrate could be beneficial for me because of the, in my opinion, still existing dysbiosis, with all it's consequences for my health. I did have the Lactulose breath test and a 'problem' with methane producing organisms couldn't be excluded because it couldn't be tested. I haven't been breastfed and when I was a toddler I was given some courses of antibiotics (penicillin ) because of asthmatic bronchitis. Also my mother has bowel problems since her adulthood (and maybe already earlier). So my hypothesis is that my microbiome (and mycobiome?) has been already out of sync (dysbiosis) since my early childhood.

==================================

Because of the negative health effects sodium butyrate caused in my particular situation (maybe just because I was overdoing/overdosing, it caused postural hypotension), I stopped this experiment after one week.

====================================

However I did start (the 12th of April) taking sodium propionate instead. I will take one capsule (500mg) for a week (start low and go slow you know 😉).

====================================

And now (Easter Sunday) decided that I also will add the lowest dosage of sodium butyrate again and carefully watch what (side) effects it has. Particularly my blood pressure / postural hypotension.

=====================================

The combination of sodium butyrate, sodium propionate and L-Glutamine could have the ameliorating effect for my health I'm looking for. Again 🤞🏻 and hope for the best.

[Maureen1958]

Sounds interesting! Keep us up to date with how you get on. Wishing you the best of luck.

[Meleber]

First experience, don't take too much to start with because it can cause orthostatic (postural) hypotension! At least in my situation it does.

Addition: research shows that butyrate can lower blood pressure! Our microbiome (intestines) communicates with the rest of our organs/body, bidirectionaly. You could do a search on butyrate and blood pressure.

As usually I tend to forget that you need to start low and go slow. I am getting older but not necessarily wiser 😉

Currently, as from Sunday, I take 3 times one capsule every 7/8 hours. Each capsule sodium butyrate of 550 mg contains an effective dosage of 170 mg butyric acid. Now time will tell if this dosasge is still causing postural hypotension. If so, I need to reduce the dosage with one capsule. Since I just started taking this supplement its too early to tell if it has some positive effects on my overall health / wellbeing and bowel function.

[Meleber in reply to Meleber]

Lowered the dosage again, will now take one capsule every 12 hours.

Correction/addition: only one capsule a day and I think in the evening.

Although I think it could be beneficial at the moment it's causing only hypotension and that is not good.

I know, I should have started taking 1 capsule a day in first instance but I'm also somewhat stubborn.

Maybe in a few weeks I will add a prebiotic supplement to try to regulate the microbiome in my colon.

The neurologist who examined me on the 4th of April thinks I could have dysautonomia based on my symptoms and after her examination. She scheduled a tilt-table-test for further examination. There could be a link between dysautonomia and the functional bowel problems I suffer from, besides all the other all over the body symptoms.

[Meleber in reply to Meleber]

"Effects of Antibiotics upon the Gut Microbiome: A Review of the Literature" mdpi.com/2227-9059/8/11/502...

[Meleber in reply to Meleber]

Should I drink more coffee or should I start eating coffee beans? 🤔 Coffee (ground or beans) as a prebiotic?

"Coffee Consumption Modulates Amoxicillin-Induced Dysbiosis in the Murine Gut Microbiome" ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

[Meleber in reply to Meleber]

Dysautonomia and IBS verywellhealth.com/dysauton...

[Meleber in reply to Meleber]

Regulation of the Autonomic Nervous System on Intestine ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

[Meleber in reply to Meleber]

So the results of the tilt table tests came through. It seems I have orthostatic intolerance / hypotension too. Just another diagnosis to add to my bucket list 😉 Now the neurologist wants me to see a rheumatologist. Don't know exactly why but think she wants to exclude other possible underlying medical issues. I asked her for a referral to a CF specialised centre but she told me I could better ask my GP because she doesn't know much about CF or CF related disorders. It seems that even carriers of the CF gene are at increased risk for a wide range of Cystic Fibrosis-related conditions research from 2020 shows (Miller et al. PNAS, January 21, 2020, vol 117, no. 3, 1621-1627). My quest will go on as I am (almost) convinced that eventually I'll find the root cause. For now it looks that all my bodily symptoms / disorders / diagnosis point to a mild form of CF but this has still to be examined. I'll let you know when I've more information on my medical situation. In the meantime I increased my dosages of bisacodyl because 5mg doesn't have enough effect for clearing and keeping clear my intestines.

[Meleber]

Because taking butyrate has such a negative effect on my overall health I just decided to stop taking this particular supplement. It was a short journey and I didn't like the ride.

Addendum: I did start taking butyrate again but in the lowest dosage possible. Till now, after 5 days, I don't feel any negative effect on my health.

[Orchid99]

Hi, I don't know of this would help but I used calcium/magnesium butyrate when I tried it from Body Bio, I had no issues with low blood pressure and seemed fine on them. Have you tried L reuteri before? I currently take it for methane overgrowth as it is a methane eating bacteria.

[Meleber in reply to Orchid99]

Hi, so maybe I just took the wrong form or just too much? (Sodium butyrate). Maybe it's worth to give calcium magnesium butyrate a try as I have huge problems with digesting insoluble fibres from fruit and vegetables.

[Meleber in reply to Orchid99]

how are you doing on L. Reuteri?

[Orchid99 in reply to Meleber]

I think it helps my pain, it is also meant to help regularity, I need to do another methane breath test to see where my numbers are now after doing two rounds of antimicrobials. At the moment I'm doing well with the probiotic and 1 sachet of movicol, being able to have movement everyday

[Meleber in reply to Orchid99]

May I ask which antimicrobials were prescribed?

[Orchid99 in reply to Meleber]

I did GI Microb X and Allicin with PHGG

[Meleber in reply to Orchid99]

👍🏻thanks

[Meleber]

Research article: Short chain fatty acids (SCFA) and colon motility in a mouse model of irritable bowel syndrome (IBS) bmcgastroenterol.biomedcent...

[Meleber in reply to Meleber]

Instead of butyrate I will try propionate, also a SCFA.

From the research article mentioned before:

"The concentration of SCFAs depends on the intestinal microbiota content and may impact the pathogenesis of IBS [23]. Recent meta-analysis data demonstrated differences in fecal SCFA level between healthy controls and patients with IBS, where in IBS-C patients, propionate and butyrate were reduced, whereas butyrate was increased in IBS-D patients [24]. Although IBS is characterized by intestinal motility dysfunction [25, 26], the underlying mechanisms are not clear. The aim of our study was to analyze the feces level of SCFAs and the effects of SCFAs on the contractility of the isolated proximal colon specimen and colon transit rate in a mouse model of IBS."

[Meleber in reply to Meleber]

Propionate could also ameliorate my dysautonomia, a recent working diagnosis from the neurologist. This has to be confirmed by a tilt table test. Proprionate can have positive effects on people with MS research shows.

Research article: Propionic Acid Shapes the Multiple Sclerosis Disease Course by an Immunomodulatory Mechanism

cell.com/cell/fulltext/S009...

[Meleber]

I think I was just overdoing/overdosing sodium butyrate. I want to try it again, in the lowest dosage possible in combination with sodium propionate and L-Glutamine and choline.

These will be the supplements I take for trying to improve my 'bowel health' and by this my overall health.

Besides these 'special' supplements for my bowel I take a 'low' dosage multivitamin, extra vitamin C, some extra D and omega 3/fish oil.

My prescription medication is still venlafaxine, 187,5mg

Information, in German, from Dr Douwes MD, Bavaria, Germany klinik-st-georg.de/aktive-u...