Right rib pain, upper back pain, bloated and lots of wind!

[Matthewr73]

Hi, For over two years now i've had the above symptoms mainly after eating, but they can come on even when i've not eaten.

To be honest i was convinced i had a gallbladder problem, but all my tests have come back normal. I've had to fight and push for everything and waited six months to see a gastro twice. The 1st gastro ordered a an abdo ultrasound and ct scan of the torso, abdo and pelvis which can back normal and tried to discharge me. I had to fight and push for months then had a liver mri and mrcp which came back normal. After waiting to see a gastro for another six months (he was great) i asked for a HIDA scan which i thought would show it was my gallbladder but it came back normal. I also had another ultrasound and that came back normal.

During this two+ year ordeal i've also had bloods taken 6 times that have all been normal, endoscoply which was normal and this new gastro also took three stool samples, one for inflammation, one for pancreas and one for blood that have all come back normal.

I've tried colofac, mebeverin to no effect and this new gastro has advised me to try peppermint so i've bought some colpermin.

The gastro is chalking it upto IBS or something functional with my bowel but i don't have D or C. So my question is everytime i eat i get the symptoms in the title but it's the right rib pain that bothers me most as sometimes it's like someone sticking a knife in me. CAN YOU HAVE IBS WITHOUT D OR C AND CAN ALL THE PAIN BE UPPER RIGHT SIDE/RIBS?

I also feel weak and tired all the time.

Many Thanks

Matt

[Matthewr73]

Just to add it feels like i've got a tennis ball wedged under my right ribs and my nausea is most days.

Thanks

[bornagain47 in reply to Matthewr73]

Hi Matt . I have the same thing as do many others on here . It is called hepatic flexture syndrome and is part of ibs . Some folks get it on left side which is splenic flexture syndrome . Basically it is caused by trapped gas in the bend in the colon . You can google it for more info . I hope this helps . Take care .

[Matthewr73 in reply to bornagain47]

Hi Bornagain47, Sorry for not get back sooner. Thanks for the info, hepatic flexture syndrome is something i've read about. Is it something you suffer from?

Matt

[bornagain47 in reply to Matthewr73]

Yes it is Matt , it can be very painful at times and my ribs at bottom are tender to touch , it is part of ibs I’m afraid. The more anxious I am the worse it is as the muscles tense when we are anxious and the colon is a muscle. Take care

[Matthewr73 in reply to bornagain47]

Thanks Bornagain, Is there anything i can try? I've tried buscopan, mebeverine and now been taking colpermin for 2 weeks.

I can't seem to tolerate any fats ( thats why i was convinced it was my gallbladder) and i'm down to eating veg, pears, chicken breast, white rice, chicken sausages, 0% fat yogurts. I only drink water (have for a long time).

The thing that worries me on top of all this is i don't have diarrhoea or constiptation, but must say my one and only poo of the day is well formed but always followed by lots of soft little bits. Everything i read says you will have D or C with IBS?

Thanks

Matt

[Matthewr73 in reply to Matthewr73]

Bornagain, it was also intersting that you say about your botton rib is tender as mine is too, 2 years ago it was so tender i couldn't lay on my right side😕

[bornagain47 in reply to Matthewr73]

Hi Matthew , the gut brain connection is very powerful and can cause lots of weird things throughout our bodies via the vagus nerve , this nerve runs from the brain through the stomach and heart , it can cause nausea , palpitations , and irritable bowel . Do a little research on it . You don't have to have IBS c or d to have IBS . Anxiety is a major issue so the less we stress the more settled our gut will be . Anxiety also increases gas which gets trapped . Try using a heat pad on tummy it will calm colon . And listen to what your doc is telling you . I hope this helps to reassure you . I do believe you have hepatic flexture syndrome . Lots of people do on this forum . God bless

[Anna222 in reply to Matthewr73]

That’s my exact pain, had similar tests and keep been told it’s just IBS

[Matthewr73 in reply to Anna222]

Hi Anna, Thanks for the reply👍

Can i ask what tests you've had, pls.

Matt

[Scr1969]

Morning Matt - you have just described all of my symptoms. I too have had all the scans, stool and bloods and they came back normal. I read an article on B12 and Vitamin D issues with IBS so i have just started taking a course of Ultra Vit D (Vitabiotics) to see if this helps. I have also started to take Liverel Tabelts (Vitabiotics) as i was told at my last scan that i had NAFLD (Non-Alcoholic-Fatty-Liver-Disease) - even though i dont drink any alcohol and my diet is healthyish.

Also re-introduced drinking milk with a spoon of turmeric for inflammation. Three / four times a day.

I will take these vitamins for a month and report back - its starting to get me down as well !!

Keep fighting and stay active - Good Luck.

[Matthewr73 in reply to Scr1969]

Hi Scr1969, Thanks for the reply👍

Very interesting, yes pls keep me posted☺

So all your pain is right ribs and between the shoulders? It's horrid and it's taken me over 2 years to get this far, yes it really does get you down and it hasn't helped that i've had to fight and push the NHS whilst being made to feel like it's all in my head and getting fobbed off.

The thing is everything i read about IBS says you will have D or C and i don't have either.

Matt

[Leemccluskey in reply to Matthewr73]

I am glad to hear this as I keep getting fobbed off by GPs and even gastroenterologists saying I JUST have irritable bowel or sluggish bowel. I just can't seem to accept that the pain under might right rib or spasms down where I am told my liver is or pressure under my breast bone or a sharp pain in the right middle back or stinging pain in between shoulders or aching arms wrists and hands can be ibs? I to have NAFLD (non alcoholic fatty liver disease) so worry when I feel tingling pressure in the region of my liver and also when I feel tired or faint. Lately been worried about breathlessness but told it's the diaphragm spasms or bloating causes the breathlessness.

I have just insisted on a gastroscopy and CT scan and the gastroscopy has come back normal other than mild gastritis and haven't had the CT results yet but the last two CT scans showed no obvious mass so was classed as normal.

I am lucky that I have managed to get a referral to the world's leading expert on ibs and on the NHS. His name is professor Peter Whorwell at Manchester university hospital which has a bowel centre and is doing research. The professor has written a book but knows every last little symptom of ibs and really put my mind at rest having at one point pain in one of my testicles. Once he told me all my symptoms were classic ibs it actually made me a lot better and he also then put me in for a 12 week course of hypnotherapy which also really helped after I managed to reduce anxiety. I haven't seen the professor now for 18 months so have made another appointment as to me this right rib pain and pain coming through to my back and stabbing pain if I twist is really frightening and I think the worry is causing anxiety which is in turn causing more pain and lethargy. If the professor says it is still ibs then hopefully it will calm down. Most of the time I also have normal bowel movements but it's once a day around the same time however I have noticed it's a little bit constipated recently.

The professor states many GPs don't know enough about IBS and will fob you off saying it's JUST!! IBS. IBS isn't just! It's life-changing and has even caused many suicides. The professor says doctors GPs etc would feel so anxious too if they had the symptoms we are all complaining about. He also says don't be fobbed off by doctors especially if symptoms have changed even if only slightly. He says you are entitled to more tests and second opinions in the NHS.

I have had so many tests and one of my GPS twice refused to refer me and in the end I had to plead with another and broke down crying to get a referral.

At the end of the day the anxiety and stress can be crippling from ibs especially when doctors tell you can't see anything wrong all normal scans you just have ibs and your very anxious so need to find relaxation and stopping worrying.

If more tests and referrals are negative then this helps with the pain and anxiety so in a way it is treatment just being tested as it gives peace of mind. Anxiety panic stress etc are terrible things and they are mental health conditions so it's not JUST IBS as the professor says there isn't a good enough description for it but Chronic Bowel Malfunction is a better one than Irritable Bowel syndrome.

If anyone on here is British get your GP to refer you to Professor Peter Whorwell at Manchester university hospital in Wythenshaw. Appointments usually come through quickly I got my first appointment with him 8 weeks later. I then had to wait 8 months for hypnotherapy though. If you can travel for the initial consultation then it's best but I am sure they can make exceptions and do a Skype appointment as I know some people have hypnotherapy via Skype as they can't leave home for feeling they need the toilet upto 20 times a day.

The professor and his clinical team is the only NHS hypnotherapy referral available and you don't have to live in the NHS trust Manchester area to be referred there.

The professor also offers medicinal treatments to those who hypnotherapy has not effect on or to people who have severe ibs. For instance the professor states that buscopan tablets have little or no effect as they are small doses and even then the body only absorbs an even smaller dose. So the professor can offer super high doses of buscopan that is injected and has been very successful amongst some people

[Hidden]

Matt

I have all of these symptoms and have had all of the tests. Things called syndrome by medical doctors are so called because they don’t know the cause. They often say it’s one of those things. Actually it isn’t as logic will tell you everything has s cause. I have PA and lack stomach acid and when I got those symptoms I went to see a naturopath in London; she owns IBS Clinics there. She did a comprehensive digestive stool analysis which was positive for parasites, pathogenic bacteria and a fungal infection. She explained that these pathogens fine out in your food and excrte gases into your system. They also cause pain and inflammation and also leaky gut. When the latter happens their toxins get into your blood steam and cause food sensitivities. To get rid of them she prescribed me with anti microbials which are a natural type of antibiotic. They are doing research to prove that IBS is largely caused by the opportunistic growth of pathogenic bacteria and parasites. My gastro doc was aware of it and said it’ll be about 20 years before they really understand it. If you really want to find out what’s going on I would get a test. It works. Good luck.

[Matthewr73 in reply to Hidden]

Martin, that's very interesting, thanks👍

[Itchyislander]

It sounds like I am at the beginning of your journey. I have had a B12 deficiency, but tested negative for pernicious anemia. I’ve been back and forward to the doctors with various digestive issues. The most annoying is the burping and rib pain, I get it both sides and it doesn’t seem to relate to eating. I’ve followed the fodmap diet but no improvement. The doctor has put it down to ibs, but I am someone who needs to know why something is happening. I won’t accept “ibs” as a diagnosis until other possibilities have been ruled out. I have an ultrasound appointment on it’s way, and a different doctor has requested a stool sample for helibactor Pylori. It’s so frustrating when you know something is wrong but can’t get answers.

I have been to an osteopath in case it is something he can deal with. He seemed to know a lot about B12 deficiency (worryingly more than any doctor I’ve seen so far) he has said to try Yakult or kefir milk, which I have been and they seem to be reducing the pain.

[Matthewr73 in reply to Itchyislander]

Thanks for the reply😊

I've been taking a probiotic capsule for a while now and i've be eating 4 activia yogurts a day for a 18 months.

[Daneesha in reply to Matthewr73]

Hi matt,

Did you losing weight for this 2 years?

[Matthewr73 in reply to Daneesha]

Hi Daneesha, Yes i lost 8 stone between Jan 2017 and June 2017 before i saw a gastro.

Frankly the NHS is shite!

[loveyourbunny in reply to Matthewr73]

I agree

[Matthewr73 in reply to loveyourbunny]

I last saw the Gastro December 18th 2018 and was told at that point via letter and verbally I would be seen again within 3 months, that was now 16 months ago and I've heard ABSOLUTELY nothing since and all my symptoms carry on.

Yes I could phone and did on many occasions up until my December 28th 2018 appt, BUT I was always spoken to in an obtuse, aggressive and patronising manner by the Gastros secretary, so much so that it has caused me to not want to.

The NHS is shite, severely lacking and so downright nauseatingly inefficient. Yes it's trying to deal with Covid19 at the moment, I feel for the staff, but it will all come to light when all this is over after all the investigations that will inevitabley show how inefficient it really is!

It's a game of Russian roulette!

[Scr1969]

Certainly the Kefir drink does seem to have some benefits, i get mine from Tesco's or Sainsbury's made by Bio-tiful.

[Alwaysunwell]

Hi Matthew. I know you wrote all of this a while ago so not sure if you’re even on here anymore! I was just wondering if you have discovered a magical cure for your symptoms?! I have everything you describe but I have also had my gallbladder removed because they found 2 stones when I had a scan, I repeatedly told them that I hadn’t had any attacks but they insisted it was my gallbladder. So I had it removed and 5 days post op all of my symptoms were back! I’ve been back to my consultant and he was quite rude and acted as if I was questioning the quality of his surgery but did agree to send me for an MRI which I get the results of tomorrow. I’m so anxious as you can imagine and I’m also getting huge headaches. Was wondering if you were any further forward with a diagnosis or cure? Many thanks.

[Matthewr73 in reply to Alwaysunwell]

Hiyer, Sorry just seen your notification.

Nope NO FURTHER along and like you it's so anxiety provoking.

Sick and tired of the NHS as its nearly 3 years since i 1st complained to my arse of a GP of feeling unwell and this right sided pain and the other symptoms.

I was last seen by the Gastro dept 8 months and 8 days ago, was told i would be seen again within 3 months!! It's a JOKE!

I had a letter not long after my last appt in Dec to say one of my stool samples showed inflamation too but still nothing.

I cant bring myself to ring the Gastro dept secretary either as everytime i have she's rude, aggressive and sarcastic.

How about you?

[Tiggy11]

Hi reading your posts are very interesting I last attended my hospital was left riddling in a bed for four hours with paracetamol I was crying in agony had farces compaction and haemorrhoids iBS and spasms my belly looked sic month pregnant I was making terrible gas’s noises and in agony they left me just simply left me and told me to lie on my front on the awkward trolleys they give you in the end the pain was so intensifying I got up to strangle myself with the curtains rather than put up with this pain I thought it would be easier to not be there than that pain in the end I crawled out with partner and went home took my own medicine amytripiline x four codeine x 4 and diazepam x two hot water bottle and con led out to sleep I looked after better at home I mean paracetamol are they totally taking the biscuit

[Tiggy11]

Does anyone know how to get rid of embarrassment of noises in public loud smells and the pain of passing (constipation type long sausages too big to squeeze out) sorry but it’s the god dam truth why won’t the hospital sort me out ive had lots endoscopy colonoscopy over seven years and just sat ibs and polyps but last scan see maybe thirty polyps In intestines they couldn’t perform the scan as they blew air into my stomach causing great pain again then I let my stools go over the ward by accident totally upset by now crying and embarrass hell a girl cane from reception with a small pack of handkerchiefs that u blow ur nose it was a mess the floor and myself no offer of shower just wipe myself down I even offered to clean the mess as it was stinking and just left there I reported this too the head nurse she immediately got mop bucket cleaned it herself so I have no idea wat I have got ad they messed up the scan I am now too scared go back but belly always swollen I have a model type figure but belly swells twice a week and makes horrendous noises trued god map didn’t work help me please I’m at the end of my tether

[AlexMac83]

I have exactly a lot of symptoms as you have. Right rib feeling, tender areas of the lower breastbone area, very strange to explain, lots of wind at times.....I also have acid reflux during the night at times

Had all tests over the past 14 months & yep just the usual you are fine & it's just GERD / IBS.

I know I worry too much which doesn't help, but this is based on losing two family members to cancer in the past 3 years, both of which spent months been misdiagnosed by docs until too late, one of which was only 35 years old, so Dr Google doesn't help & I convince myself I have pancreatic cancer or something!!!! So I know I don't help but I am finding it a real struggle at times.

Im fit & healthy, I've cut out a lot of things out of my diet, tried numerous herbal / tablets just not much seems to help. And as for the various PPI I've tried they are so hit & miss

Anyway rant over, just wondering how you are getting on & if you've had any progress with anything