Sjogrens and Botox

[rosserk]

Hi all

Has anyone had Botox to help with tear production? I’ve been reading it helps increase tear production and is really beneficial for people with sjogrens.

[honeybug]

Hi roseerk 😊🌿🌸🦋

I’m across the pond. Over here the adverts about Botox tell the side effects and the one that has prevented me from trying it is that it can migrate to other areas long after it is given.

Botox can render muscles to be rigid (eg as in between the eyebrows) so that they do not make deep furrowed lines that makes people appear older. If it can do this then wouldn’t it render tear ducts useless and then there’s the chance it may migrate to the eyelids and eyes? What a nightmare that would be.

I have severe Sjogrens and I take Evoxac /Cevimeline Hcl capsules 30mg twice daily. They work wonders for me. Without them (when surgery requires to omit them) I really am in agony. This meds helps my eyes lungs nose mouth GI tract renal system and female anatomy.

The only side effects I have had from it is occasional clamminess.

I would prefer to try an oral meds first rather than risk the permanent side effects of Botox.

I just said a special prayer for you dear that if you decide to take Botox that you will be protected from the bad side effects.

Best wishes for a good outcome whatever you choose to try.

Take care and abundant blessings.

EJ 😊🌿🌸🦋🙏🤗💗😘😇🕊

[EyeandDry in reply to honeybug]

Hi honeybug, could you please tell me about ‘the permanent side effects of botox’ you are referring to? I have been having regular Botox shots for a couple of years now with no side effects whatsoever, only that it wears off so quickly! It is just like a numbing needle you get at the dentist! I would be unable to live a relatively normal life without it. I would much rather have an injection of a short term and effective toxin in my eye muscles than take steroids and other dangerous drugs long term which cause total havoc to your gut biome.

[honeybug in reply to EyeandDry]

Hi EyeandDry 😊🌿🌸🦋

I love your clever username.

I’m sooo happy for you that you have been taking Botox injections without negative effects.

Our drug adverts over here just quickly ramble off the side and serious side effects without going into great details.

They mentioned that the meds could migrate/move away from the target area.

Example: shot given on forehead for wrinkles the inability to move the muscles injected relaxes them flattening the ridges and more youthful appearance is achieved. The advert says the effects could move say to your eyebrows and then they would not move but be stationary.

The advert doesn’t say how much is injected or how many people were experiencing the worst effects. Just the possibility of the worst that can happen.

From your description it sounds like you got a very small dose of it.

I’m so glad it works for you.

I’m one of those people that has so much bad luck it seems that’s all I have. If I tried Botox in my tear ducts it would surely migrate into my lids and eyes rendering me unable to see.

I didn’t mention the worst effects to scare anyone just to prepare those who might get a heavy dose of it and the dangers it can pose.

One former USA 🇺🇸 actress once married to a world famous singer got Botox injections in her face to preserve her youthfulness and beauty. She has suffered from frozen facial muscles and can’t smile or frown she looks strange and I haven’t seen her act since this occurred. I think she ruined her career.

I don’t think you have anything to worry about with your injections and I’m so glad that you have success even though it is short lived.

Best wishes dear.

EJ 😊🌿🌸🦋🙏🤗💗😘😇🕊

[rosserk in reply to EyeandDry]

Hi EyeandDry

Are you in the U.K. ?

How often do you have the injections? And what areas do they inject?

[EyeandDry in reply to rosserk]

Hi there, I am in Australia. I started injections under the advice of my ophthalmologist about 2 years ago. I get free treatment via the Eye Clinic at a major Sydney Hospital approximately every 8-10 weeks. Mine seem to wear off over this time but generally, people get them every 12 weeks. Everyone is different. I get about 60-80 units periorbitally (muscles around each eye) and a couple directly along the lash line of my top eyelids. It is about as painful as a mosquito bite but well worth it! Sometimes it can leave a small bruise if the needle touches a small blood vessel but this can easily be covered up and disappears in a couple of days. A good injector will usually sit and observe your muscle spasms for about five minutes before doing the injections so that they can see which muscles to inject. Injections mean I can function normally. Before Botox I could not leave the house without someone with me, I could not drive or go to work as my eyes would clamp shut and I would have to hold them open with my fingers to see. If you are a Facebook user, there are some excellent Sjogrens blogs you could join to discuss further. Best wishes to you!

[stringstudio in reply to EyeandDry]

Hi

Which hospital?

I’ve just started Botox for migraines but since my treatment, my upper trapeze muscles have been so painful and like rock . I’ve had SS since 1996, caused I believe by Roaccutane

[EyeandDry in reply to stringstudio]

Hi stringstudio, I have since moved to Newcastle and now have injections via the neurology clinic at John Hunter Hospital. But when in Sydney, I saw Prof. James Colebatch at Prince of Wales, Randwick.

[Eeve]

Hi Rosserk, The only thing I've read botox being useful for is if injected into the lower lids near the tear ducts it can stop the tear ducts from draining, so can help hold tears in (if you are already producing tears), but punctal occlusion (little plugs) would do the same thing, with no risk of the serious side affects of botox. I've only heard the opposite as far as tear production. Injected into the lacrimal gland it can stop over production of tears, of those that have over watering. Where were you reading it's helpful for tear production, I'd be interested to read more....

[EyeandDry]

Honeybug - I fear you have been grossly mislead! I have Sjogrens characterised by the typical dry eyes, mouth etc. I also have developed blepharospasm, presumably as a flow on from my dry eye condition and Hashimotos. I have regular Botox injections about every 8-10 weeks. I have never heard that Botox promotes tear production! There is no interrelationship. I have Botox shots for blepharospasm. Blepharospasm is a neurological movement disorder also known as Dystonia. Botox (and other variations) is a toxin which limits the nerve signals which cause eye muscles to go into spasm. It is used as a cosmetic agent to stop forehead (facial) muscles from contracting and forming wrinkles in the skin. Eye muscles and tear ducts are nowhere near related! I am not aware of any ‘permanent side effects’ of Botox! The effects wear off for most people in about three months. Botox has been a lifesaver for me. My eyes would blink and spasm (because of nerves misfiring at my eye muscles) and could remain permanently shut for up to a day. I could not lead a normal life, could not work, drive, prepare meals etc. As far as my severe dry eyes go, i do not make any tears whatsoever. I have had my punctum (tear ducts) cauterised so that any moisture at all is retained on my eye surface and cannot drain away through the nose and mouth. I primarily use ph balanced saline as drops, as pharmaceutical oily drops just clog my eyes. I also use autologous serum made up by the local blood bank which has been a godsend in fighting eye inflammation. Rosserk could you please quote the source which informed you that Botox could promote tear production? My ophthalmologist will have a great laugh when he hears this! Take care.

[honeybug in reply to EyeandDry]

Thank you for your great explanation of your Botox treatment.

I use Saline drops in my eyes that are non tear producing. My Sjogrens has stopped all moisture in my nose wreaked havoc on my airways my GI tract...all my moisture cells. I also take Evoxac capsules to make my cells produce moisture. I have to use Bactroban cream in my nose for moisture. It also helps my airways. Use Pro Air inhaler for asthma and Sjogrens too.

These things have helped me avoid the steroid treatments I used to get.

I have the eye lid spasms. They are no where near as bad as yours.

Sorry you had to suffer with them but so glad your treatments are working for you.

Thank you for teaching me about this subject.

This forum has taught me so much and I appreciate everyone sharing their experiences including yours dear EyeandDry.

Best wishes.

EJ 😊🌸🌿🦋🙏🤗💗😘😇🕊

[rosserk in reply to EyeandDry]

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/9...

[EyeandDry in reply to rosserk]

Thank you for this link! This is the first study I have read where it is purported that Botox will induce tear production. How I wish this would happen to me! Unfortunately after long term use, this has never eventuated. As I said before, Botox is usually only used to treat blepharospasm (eye muscle spasms) and is unrelated to tear duct dysfunction. So it appears that myself and an estimated one million other Botox users will be very put out that tear production has not been forthcoming! I note that this study was carried out in 1997 and purports that although ‘a remarkable increase in tear production’ was achieved, the mechanism was unclear. While I believe PubMed to be a reputable source of research, I have not seen any evidence to support this claim in the 22 years since the study was carried out.

[rosserk]

Thanks agree with everything you say hence my original question.

I suffer from blepharospasm and was the very first symptom I had several years ago, long before I was diagnosed with sjogrens. At the time the consultant said he would arrange Botox injections but I was really worried about side effects and declined the treatment. Things are now so bad I will take anything that’s offered! I have an appointment with an ophthalmologist on the 20th of August so will discuss everything then.

[EyeandDry in reply to rosserk]

I can only say that Botox has been my lifesaver but I do understand that it doesn’t work for everyone. I do know from a number of Facebook blogs that I follow, it is important to get a good injector who will take the time to work with you to achieve success. I was lucky that I got a good injector (my current ophthalmologist) who sat and observed my eye flicks for about 5 minutes before he began injections. Blepharospasm was much relieved but it didn’t last very long - only a couple of weeks the first round. He increased the dose the next time round and injected some different places - direct to my lashline this time which I thought was very freaky, but it worked! Honestly, from all the blogs I am on, I have not heard one person complain of any long term issues or side effects, apart from an odd bruise here and there! Remember the injections are issued by a registered and competent medical practitioner unlike the cosmetic clinic injectors you might be hearing the bad news about. Botox is a medical grade product approved by national medical authorities and is used to treat migraine headaches and hyperhydrosis (excess sweating) among other things. Believe me, it will change your life, you will get your life back again! Please let us know how you get on! Very best wishes x

[Aquamarine88]

folks this has been a most interesting read

I was referred to Botox for Torticullis dystonia head and neck shaking I tried Bowens a gentle muscle release and got the syptoms under control for now The Alfred hos who diagnosed me also told me i had sjorgrens and Raunauds at the same time and im finding not very helpful with the other diagnoses

[rosserk]

Hi all!

I’ve had the punctal plugs today but will be asking for an emergency appointment tomorrow to have them removed! I am in a massive amount of discomfort! It feels like I’ve got grains of rice in my eyes and they’re scratching my eye balls when I move my eyes left or right.

I’ve found the following article and I will be looking for an ophthalmologist with experience of Botox injections. Please see the following link and let me know your thoughts.

reviewofoptometry.com/news/...