Curious??

[Itisfinished]

I'm just curious and wanted to ask for everyone's opinion. Do you think removing cancer can cause it to spread?? I know that's a wide open question but I was just wondering what other views were on this.

[Justme153]

I do!!! When I found my lump I didn't want to have chemo. So I chose not to have it checked out. It got bigger and broke through the skin. I was covering the wound with a large bandaid 2x3. I still felt great I didn't want to give up feeling good to taking drugs that would make me feel miserable. I did this for 10 years . Long story short because of a scan for another issue they found something on my right adrenal gland . I knowing I had breast cancer said there probably wasn't any use checking it further cause it was probably MBC. My doctor asked why I thought that so I showed her my breast. She said oh my you probably are stage 4. At that point my Husband got really upset and insisted we tell our children and then from there I lost my control of things. I knew they would pressure me to have stuff done and I was right. I ended up at Cancer treatment center of America they ran every scan imaginable. I had no sign of MBC. The thing on my right adrenal gland could have been there since birth. But I was pressured into (guilt) having a left breast mastectomy and axillary lymph node removal. That was March 2017. I was put on Anastrozole then Dec 2018 I was diagnosed MBC right ovary. So yes I do believe once you mess with the tumor cells break off and spread. NOW I DONT WANT TO ADVOCATE FOR PEOPLE TO LET LUMPS GO!!!! I was lucky my tumor when checked by onco DX test was a very slow growing cancer 99 estrogen hers2 negative. If this had been a different type I would not even be here today. The other thing I feel about my decision is had I gone when I first found the lump the standard procedure at that time would have been to be aggressive . I would have been given chemo . I truly believe chemo destroys our immune system and lessons the life span of our other organs. So I still feel I am healthier today having avoided chemo. I like a lot of people on this site want Quality of life not quantity. ( But remember my children where grown already when I found my lump. I may have thought differently had they been young). I am currently on Letrozole since January 2019 I do have minor discomfort in my left shoulder and arm and side from lymphedema. I can't say I have any side affects from Letrozole other then the damage any drug we take has on our kidney and liver . Now my daughter has a total different take on this. She says if I had gotten the lump removed right away I'd be a cancer survivor. I wouldn't be on any medications now and I wouldn't be dealing with lymphedema. So Many scenarios I guess we will never know for sure what the best move is. All we can do is what we feel is right and don't look back and beat ourselves up over what if. Make our decision and stand by it!! JUST MY OPINION!!!!!

[Itisfinished in reply to Justme153]

Thanks for your opinion. I agree sometimes you just have to go with your decision and not waver. I was put in a position to where I had to have the tumor removed off my spine because it was pressing on two vertebraes and eventually I would be paralyzed. I was already having so much pain in my back and legs that I couldn't walk. However I have bc in both breast but didnt have them removed. So what do you do.Thanks again!

Be blessed with long life!

Michelle

[13plus in reply to Justme153]

Now yours must be the most mind-blowing story I have heard yet! So you had a skin lesion on your breast for 10 years?!! I can't say I would have made that particular choice ( although I do feel similarly about chemo). It's just really interesting to me that it broke the skin but didn't otherwise bother your health all those years, that's really pretty incredible.

Who knows about the theory of surgery spreading the cancer, I believe it's possible.

Now, as for your daughter's opinion, don't let her bully you! You ARE a survivor!! Good grief. I know people who've done all the aggressive treatment immediately, only to still have it spread and them die, all within less time than her finding out you had cancer in the first place. It's unpredictable. Even those slow-growing cancers can be surprising because it's no cut and dry science. Also many women who have the chemo suffer numbness in their feet permanently from the treatment, you avoided that possibility and had a good decade of life! And if you have lymphoma now it's as likely you would have got it had you had the surgery earlier in your life, and thus had to deal with that a whole lot longer. And you most likely would have been on another drug similar to letrozole for 5 years after the initial treatment so she can't say any of that! Feel ok about your choices, you're doing great!

[viennagirl in reply to Justme153]

Thank you for sharing your story. I also ignored a lump for at least two years. I told myself it wasn't cancer. Then I read that rubbing castor oil into a breast lump would dissolve it. So like an idiot I did it and the lump burst and hemorraghed . It was sitting like a golf ball on my right breast and was red and sore. I was terrified. I raced myself down to the Urgent Care Centre and they were shocked at what they saw. So I got scans and sent to the Cancer Agency within days. I also saw a surgeon. I had the option of going on chemotherapy to shrink the tumor and then have a partial mastectomy or to have my breast removed. I chose the chemo route and within months it began shrinking the tumor dramatically. My oncologist wanted me to continue with chemo to eradicate the tumor but I was horribly sick and very allergic to the chemotherapy. All my hair fell out. I asked the surgeon if he would do the lumpectomy and he agreed. He said the lump was now quite reduced in size. So he did the surgery and he also took 8 lymph nodes. Then I read an article that said surgery could spread the cancer. But I believed my surgeon when he said that he didn't think I had a cancer cell in my whole body. He said there were clear margins and the lymph didn't show any sign of spread. So I believed him and discontinued any further treatment. And of course, the rest you can probably guess. Three years later when I had some pain in my back it was discovered that my cancer had metastisized. I was diagnosed at stage four. I am now on Ibrance and Letrozole and doing quite well but I think it was the surgery that spread the cancer. I believe that if I had faced reality when I first had the lump I could have had some chemotherapy and killed the cancer without surgery. I think if a person has to have surgery it is important to have your doctor check every 6 months for metastasis. Caught early it can be healed with hormone treatments or chemotherapy. But leaving it like I did for years caused it to grow and nearly kill me. I do a lot of reading and have spent time with a naturopath to find out ways to build up my immune system. At this time I am actually doing very well. For almost two years there has been no progression. So I feel blessed and grateful for every day. I still believe I will heal. I do think it is important to feel optimistic as it is as important as the drugs. I have a daughter like yours who wishes I had responded when I first felt the lump. I guess she is right but I am here now and very grateful for my good doctor and my family and friends who give me lots of reasons to keep living. Hugs Marlene

[13plus]

I know at some point there was research into this possibility of surgery allowing the cancer to spread. It certainly seems feasible! At one point I even recall reading that there was some suggestion that surgery on breast cancer lumps should be done within certain points in the woman's period cycle (this was after I'd already had my mastectomy so I looked back at my history and realized my surgery happened to fall at the wrong time!). I don't know whatever happened to all that research and if there was any conclusion to it but I have not heard anyone talking about their doctor's taking this into consideration.

[Adele_Julia]

In my case, I was diagnosed with Stage 2 breast cancer (ER/PR+ Her2-) in February of 2019. When through a lumpectomy on the right breast, 4 months of IV chemo, another surgery to remove lymph nodes under my right armpit . Finished 2 months of radiation in November of 2019. ONLY ONLY to have the lump come right back in August of 2020 in the same precise location as the lumpectomy was. My breast surgeon said she had all the margins clear. Long story short, I also had that tumor "burst" through the skin. It's an open wound - not smelly or anything, just angry and open . The size of a dime. Needless to say I'm MBC diagnosed in Nov of 2020. In my view, I had external nodal extensions of my lymph nodes which meant in 2019 the cancer cells could have "farted" into my blood stream. But this time it's back in the same place. I'm on iBrance and Faslodex, also do the careoncology.com regiment, but I do believe messing with a tumor can or may cause more harm than good. My ONC does not want me to remove the right breast at this time because in between CT and PetScan's , it's a good indicator of progression and PRAISE GOD my Pet a few days ago came bac with strong decrease of tumors. YEAH ! However, if I do want to remove the tumor, I'd have to be off of iBrance for 3 months to allow for my WBC and RBC counts to get to a level for surgery.... mmmmm...... so not sure what course of action to take. To be perfectly honest, I hate waking up and getting out of the shower to see this tumor staring at me. I know it's vain and frankly I don't care if my right girl is removed at this point ! xoxo !

[Hazelgreen]

Because cancer cells are so minute travelling through body fluids (blood or lymph?), I don't think of them likely coming immediately from the tumors we have removed. As has been suggested in some of the research literature, it makes sense to me that cancer cells "hide" in various corners of the body until something triggers their growth.

In my case, I was diagnosed with early BC in 2006. Since 7 of 15 lymph nodes under my right arm were involved, and my surgeon-oncologist at the time was having difficulty ensuring I had clean margins, he was very keen that I have a mastectomy. However, I had read research that indicated that mastectomies were no guarantee against recurrence, and, as a result, few were being done in Europe. An excellent physician who listened to a patient's reasoning, my surgeon completed three lumpectomies in his quest for clean margins. Thereafter, I took adjuvant tamoxifen for 5 years, but refused chemotherapy because a 2006 research paper indicated that it only improved survival among postmenopausal women by 4 %.

I was not diagnosed with MBC until April of 2019. This was 13 years after my BC diagnosis, and 8 years after I finished taking tamoxifen (10 years was not recommended at the time). I have no idea how long the cancer had been growing inside me during that time period, but it "returned" in my lymph nodes, bones and lungs. It did not return in either breast. The only clue I had in 2019 that something was wrong was an increase in the lymphedema in my right arm. Actually, I thought the swelling of my right arm was possibly due to a spider bite, but my GP sent me for a CT scan which indicated MBC.

I wish it had been recommended that I take tamoxifen for ten years, as that hormone-related drug seems to have very few side effects (it is what I currently take) whereas all the other cancer drugs seem to have more. I agree with all of you who believe that it is not good to "poison" our immune systems, or to thin our ancient bones (I was 60 when BC was first diagnosed, and am now 75). When the cancer starts getting much out of control again, I will do what I have to do, provided my quality of life remains about as good as it is. Otherwise, I'll do nothing, and take the consequences.

Thanks for asking your question, "itisfinished", and for all the interesting comments, "Justme153", "13plus", and "Adele_Julia"! It seems to me that I learn much more about all the possibilities of MBC from the participants here than I do from any medical journals or my current oncologists. Warmest wishes to you all!

Cindy

[Hazelgreen]

I also wanted to add that it is possible major shocks to the body start the "hidden" cancer cells growing. Perhaps, major shocks include operations. Part of my story is that I had open heart surgery in 2018, and the cardiologist had to restart my heart twice. This happened again when I was in the ICU, as I ended up with atrial fibrillation. Anyway, it was nine months after that adventure when I was diagnosed with MBC. I still wonder whether all that shocking of my heart started the cancer cells growing, or accelerated any growth that was already happening.