Things that go bump in the night...and keep you awake.

[lauraflora]

From what I understand and have read, there are several things that can give a person insomnia. Even if you have RLS, that does not mean that the RLS is the only thing keeping you awake (usually in the form of too much glutamate.) There is too much histamine, cortisol spikes, etc. etc.

Here is something simple and which won't cost anything beyond your usual grocery expenditure. This is a bed time snack and if needed a middle of the night snack upon waking up. But not just any old snack. It's (healthy!) carbs. Don't scoff, as I did what I first read about this! There is a science behind this, and I will tell you it has been working well for me.

Low carb is something that has been causing many people to have insomnia. You can read about this here (or look it up as well.) psychologytoday.com chasing away insomnia with a bowl of oatmeal. You can also read about it at livestrong.com I can't sleep on a low carb diet

Another thing that causes insomnia is Intermittent Fasting (sorry) in people who already have sleeping problems, such as adrenal stress, dysregulation, etc. Chris Kresser has an article on Intermittent fasting, cortisol and blood sugar. Those cortisol spikes in the middle of the night wake you up.

Julia Ross also mentions how needing something to eat before bed and possibly in the middle of the night might be all one needs to cure the insomnia. She mentions that the blood sugar drops and this turns on the cortisol (presumable to make you get up and get something to eat.) The cortisol spike wakes you up.

If one is squeamish about adding too much carbohydrate to their diet, then consider changing when you eat carbs. For instance, rather then having them early in the day, strategically eat them later in the day/before bed. Alan Christensen (sp?) of the Adrenal Reset Diet book, recommends this.

And of course, It is not sugary foods, or even fruit, but healthy whole grain carbs, or for those who are staying away from grains or beans, it is potatoes, sweet potatoes, butternut squash, carrots. But I am not going to get too carried away with what. It is the science and chemistry behind it all. Check it out and give it a try.

I tried this a few months ago and it worked, then I didn't need it as I was sleeping well. Recently, I went thru a bought of waking in the night again, forgot about this, suffered for 3 nights, until I remembered - get something to eat! So I did and tho I wake up, a half a slice of whole grain bread puts me to sleep for the rest of the night. Don't toss and turn for 2 hours, as I did. Get up right away! Try this!

[tmshepard35]

I have been following a low carb diet, mostly for weight loss and the need to be gluten free. This is great advice! I have been unable to sleep, not due to RLS, but insomnia. I'm thinking a carrot stick or two maybe an hour before bed. I'll try that. Thanks!

[lauraflora in reply to tmshepard35]

You'll have to experiment with the amount of carbs to add, as well as when to have them. I find, if I have had a rather late supper, that I can forego the before-bed-snack. But If I awake during the night - which is usual - then the middle-of-the-night snack is definitely necessary. If you are gluten free, you might try a small potato or sweet potato (cooked before) or, I think, rice is considered gluten free.

And here's a thought also. One can read that lack of sleep can lead to weight gain, as well as cortisol spikes can add to stored belly fat. So, if one can sleep better and quiet down the adrenals by adding some carbs, then perhaps carbs are not so bad as they have gotten a reputation for lately. (Healthy carbs, I am talking about.) I, too, have tried, several times, low carb eating. But can never seem to stick with it. It seems to throw everything off, especially, now that I have learned the connection, my sleep!

[tmshepard35 in reply to lauraflora]

I have been reading that it is somehow all connected. I am 48 with RLS, Hashimotos Thyroiditis (slow thyroid due to gluten allergy/intolerance), and asthma. I have read that many patients with Hashimotos have RLS. It seems to be connected but it hasn't been discovered how. I am hoping that being gluten free will help my RLS. I still have the symptoms and honestly haven't had the nerve to not take the tramadol to see exactly how bad they are still. I already know that it will mean an exhaustive night of no sleep and sleep is so very precious to me now. Most weeks I'm up until very early morning (1 or 2 am) get up at 7 to work then back home by 7/730 PM to be up until 1 or 2 am again. Seems the only time I sleep is on Saturday (once I fall asleep on Friday nights) and then I can sleep until noon or even 2 PM making up for the sleep I didnt get during the week. How long can I live like this?? The frustration and helplessness take over.

[involuntarydancer in reply to tmshepard35]

Some RLS sufferers who take tramadol and other opioids have found that the opioid induces nocturnal alerting so that they find it very hard to get to sleep. I have seen speculation that it is specific to RLS sufferers and not experienced by other opioid users.

Some people try to take the opioid earlier in the day. Others add in a sleep inducer such as pregabalin (lyrica) or cannabis. For some reason ordinary sleeping pills are not always very successful against this phenomenon.

Obviously it would be great if eating a healthy snack was the solution. I definitely find a snack can be helpful when I am awake in the night but would not be strong enough against opioid induced alerting. It may be a side benefit for you of coming off tramadol that your sleep pattern improves (provided always that you get the legs under control).

[lauraflora in reply to involuntarydancer]

Interesting, especially for people who are or have taken medications for RLS. I have not, preferring, (and probably my RLS is not as bad as many others experience it) various natural approaches - magnesium, iron, etc. (So, I have never taken tramadol.)

My post was mostly about insomnia, and while I know these things many not work for everyone, I like to put the info out there, in case it helps even one person.

But, I am intrigued to hear that you find a snack helpful when you are awake in the middle of the night. That was my biggest sleep problem, and a middle of the night snack has been a big turn around. Every time I do this, I can go back to sleep and sleep soundly until it is time to get up. Nothing else I tried (and I have tried a LOT of things) has been so sure in helping me sleep.

[involuntarydancer in reply to lauraflora]

Hi lf, my comments were mainly directed to Theresa who is facing a difficult situation with her tramadol - her GP is insisting she discontinue it.

I know you don’t take prescription medication - I always read your posts with great interest. I am sure I have read about the efficacy of nocturnal eating as a sleep aid previously. The only downsides are potential damage to teeth (depending on the acidity of what you eat) and weight gain. I definitely notice the pounds creeping up when I eat habitually at night!

I was wondering if you are going to give veganism a try bearing in mind Raffs’ success. I can’t remember your dietary regime - maybe you are already vegan?

[lauraflora in reply to involuntarydancer]

I realized afterward that you were answering Theresa. Sorry.

Also, found that eating enough carbs (healthy ones!) thru the day, seems to help off set the nocturnal eating. I have had several nights lately where I don't wake up till morning. So, I think, what I read about this was that perhaps for a while one needs that midnight snack, but after awhile things even out and one doesn't need it as long as one isn't deprived of a certain amount of carbs.

And my RLS is not bothering me other than a flutter or two. I feel that not sleeping can set off the RLS, as well as the other way around. So sleeping well helps everything settle down. At least in my experience. Since there are different things that can keep a person awake, besides RLS, one needs to search them out and address them.

No, I am not going to be vegan. I am a confirmed carnivore (perhaps that's from my Neanderthal genes, which I posted about before.) I tried vegetarianism, long time ago which made me feel unenergetic, and veganism does not appeal to me at all. But I eat healthy foods - we grow a large vegetable garden, I buy organic when I can, cook most all of what we eat, use whole grains (plus things like farro, buckwheat, quinoa.) Get wild caught fish (which we have fish three times a week.) Range free eggs. That sort of food. Real food.

[involuntarydancer in reply to lauraflora]

I definitely agree about rls getting worse when one is sleep deprived. It is the ultimate of ironies. I find if I have been through a bad patch, if I can get a rest in the afternoon (the relaxis pad is quite effective if symptoms come on during a daytime rest), the rls is often much better that evening.

Your diet sounds very delicious. If it were not for Raffs' positive experience with veganism I would not have the discipline to try it - in fact I haven't had the discipline to stick to it completely yet - not for one single day but I am making a big effort. In particular I am trying to eliminate dairy. I have a suspicion that cheese sets off my rls. I have spent the afternoon making vegan burgers - two types which I will try out on my children (teenage and young adult) for their comments. Both have beans and nuts, herbs and grated veggies but one is made with roasted buckwheat and almonds and the other with bulgur and walnuts. Preliminary tastings (sneaky spoonfuls of uncooked mixture) suggests the bulgur one is much better. I have made far too many and am off to research how to freeze them.

[lauraflora in reply to tmshepard35]

There are certainly gluten-free carbs out there. Some of which are pre-made, some which are very basic (like those potatoes, sweet potatoes, etc.) You have to experiment. I read in a Chris Kresser post (and he is Paleo, which is certainly gluten-free) that many people do better with about 35% (if I remember correctly) carbs. Meaning Paleo is not low carb necessarily.

But sleep being very important, give it a try.

[tmshepard35 in reply to lauraflora]

Come to think of it, early on before starting the tramadol, when I was up until early morning, I would eat carbs (before gluten intolerance was a factor) such as a sandwich or some snack and it would help in falling asleep. Or, it could be that I waited until the sun came up and then had it as breakfast and was finally able to sleep. Funny, once morning came,the symptoms abated.

[Keitha in reply to tmshepard35]

This may have already been addressed here, but as I am new to this forum, I missed it. Interestingly you mention symptoms abate once morning comes. I am curious and interested to know why symptoms start at nighttime (unless you have augmented, in which case symptoms are 24/7) and come morning, go away. This to me, sounds like some kind of hormonal change in the body as night approaches (serotonin vs. melatonin, etc.). Does this sound like it might have some validity to it?

[LotteM in reply to Keitha]

Keitha, igood question! It is called diurnal rhythms; for everything that follows a 24h rhythms. For example our body temperature (lower in the morning, higher in the evening), melatonin (indeed) and many, many other things in our body. Biologists think it is an adaptation to the 24h day-night rhythm we live in. Almost, if not all organisms (animals, plants, micro organisms and even individual cells in our bodies) have such rhythms.

[Keitha in reply to tmshepard35]

Does the tramadol help you to fall asleep and sleep through the RLS symptoms? At this point, I really don't care about the symptoms (what a bunch of crock), I care about getting a good nights sleep every night. Started on belmora last night. Waste of good $, unless dosage increase works better. Any info on belmora from anyone? Ditto your question "How long can I live like this"?

[tmshepard35 in reply to Keitha]

I know nothing of belmora. The only medication I have been on is tramadol. Wish I could be of more help.

[tmshepard35]

This was actually posted about 2 weeks ago. I'm new to the forum also. You didnt miss much. I cannot say why symptoms begin at night or abate during the day. Initially, I was on no medication at all, so I would just stay up all night living through the sensations and in the morning when I was exhausted I would finally fall asleep. I'm guessing it could be hormonal, but it was not augmentation, since I was on no medication. I am on tramadol now and I would say it stops the sensations rather than having me sleep through them, since I wouldn't be able to sleep if I had them. I was on ambien for a time and when I took it I would get sleepy but couldn't sleep if I had symptoms at night. This has been going on for about 10 years now. I think I've been on tramadol for about 8 years now.