One to One in Care Home / Fees

[sennen7]

Hi

Mum's care home cannot cope with her PSP - so they have said they need one to one immediately while we are looking for a replacement home.

We are self funding (going through CHC currently) and have to pay for 12 hrs a day of one to one ( from external company) PLUS the full amount from the care home (even though they do not care for her 12 hrs a day).

Has anyone had experience of this situation? Do you think it's legally ok?

Thank you

Jan

[Marie_14]

Jan

Yes and No! My husband was in a Care Home and it became obvious it was the wrong place for him. He needed a Nursing Home. While we were waiting for CHC funding he suffered from a bout of aspiration pneumonia and died in hospital some weeks later.

I don't think they had enough staff to care for him and really didn't understand his needs. It can be the same in Nursing Homes sadly. CHC came through about three weeks before my husband ended up in hospital. They suggested a few Nursing Homes. Only one was suitable!!

However after telling us they had a room and we accepted it they then told us we shouldn't have been offered it as someone else had been offered it the week before! What they really meant was they didn't want him as it was too much work!! So make sure when she leaves she goes to one with experience of PSP.

What they are asking does sound a bit dubious to me. If you are already paying for care you are paying!! If you pay someone else to come in to care they wouldn't be employed by the care home? It seems to me they are struggling to care for your Mum so need extra help. If they employ someone to do that they may also be liable for employment rights? You need to ask them to put this into writing so you understand what they want to do and why, and who would be responsible for this extra person. If this person will be caring only for your Mum then at least you might have some peace of mind but you need someone who knows what they are doing?

By the way I would contact the CHC and tell them the home is struggling to care for your Mum as it's a care home and what they are requesting you to do. Ask them if this is normal practice and explain about PSP and the demands it places on people. Explain that she needs a Nursing Home which has dealt with PSP. As she needs 24/7 nursin care.

In my experience the CHC don't know this and you end up on a wild goose chase! They haven't any understanding of it and need to be told the additional nursing care it requires.

Good luck to you and your Mum.

Marie x

[sennen7 in reply to Marie_14]

Thank you for your response Marie. She is in a Nursing Home...That's why it's so frustrating x

[Kevin_1 in reply to sennen7]

Hi sennen7

Sorry to say this is normal practice.

Care Homes have lower staff to client ratios compared to Nursing Homes. However even Nursing Homes will do this when the clients needs exceed the normal staffing resources. If they didn't work this way they would have to have much larger staffing complements making the home very expensive indeed.

It does sound like your husband needs to be in a nursing home now.

I am in agreement with Marie's post.

Do make sure that the CCG are informed, by letter, that his needs have increased and he needs 1:1 and that you have been advised that he needs to be in a Nursing Home. This will greatly increase your chances of getting funding.

I hope this helps and I am sorry things have deteriorated.

Best to you both

Kevin

[sennen7 in reply to Kevin_1]

Thanks Kevin. It is a Nursing Home (I mistakenly said care home) - I think they just don't want the hassle of someone with a high falls risk. We had our CHC assessment yesterday (DST stage) and told them about the one - to one - they did not recommend eligibility. I spoke to a Solicitor this morning who said that was incorrect as one to one's do not fall in the social care remit. So...we are challenging this and if successful will get the money back for the one to one through the NHS via CHC.

[Kevin_1 in reply to sennen7]

Hi

Good for you challenging it.

One thing confuses me. You had the DST yesterday, but that is not where the decision is made. The final decision is made by the Funding Panel... but I guess if the assessors are not recommending it the panel will follow that line.

Yes, one to one certainly does put his care beyond social services. The soc. serv. should have been at the DST assessment and they should make a decision on whether or not the care is within the 'legal limit' (google it?). If it is beyond the legal limit then they are legally not allowed to provide care and it then falls to the CCG.

Many people have got CHC by challenging the Soc. Serv. over their decision on the legal limit.

Sorry if you know all of this anyway.

Good luck

Kevin

[sennen7 in reply to Kevin_1]

Thanks Kevin. Yes - they just told us (after we did all the scores) that in their opinion she isn't elligable yet..but like u say this could be overuled by the panel. The Social worker was present...not sure what use she was though.

[Kevin_1 in reply to sennen7]

The Social Worker's role was in part to be part of the scoring, but they seldom do that. Their key role is to make a decision as to whether or not the care falls within the legal limit.

You have a solicitor. Were you not to have one I would suggest writing to the Soc. Serv. asking them for the argued evidence leading to their decision that it fell within their legal limit. Everything is based of evidence and not opinion.

[sennen7 in reply to Kevin_1]

Thank you Kevin. This is V helpful. I will let u know what happens.

[Marie_14 in reply to sennen7]

Sennen you said care home so I thought that's where she was. If she is in a Nursing Home it makes it worse! However having seen some which we were advised had rooms I suppose it shouldn't surprise me! There was no way they could have given Nursing Care to my husband. Some had rooms so tiny you couldn't swing a cat in them! One was OK but not prepared to take him as I said. I found one near me which impressed me but CHC refused to fund it! I wish I had known he only had a short time as I would have paid for it myself or taken him home Two days before he died the hospital told me CHC had agreed to fund the Nursing Home!! This was from the consultant who came to see him each morning. I knew he was dying but apparently he didn't! It does shake your confidence in the medical profession.

Good luck with this but you need clarification in writing, otherwise you don't know what is going to happen?

Marie x

[sennen7 in reply to Marie_14]

Sorry Marie - I'm a bit frazzled at the mo - I got it wrong. - she is in a Nursing Home. They are quite small and it's a quiet, old place. I don't think they were prepared for mum...but they knew about the falls etc.. no excuse in my opinion.

[Marie_14 in reply to sennen7]

Sennen not if they knew about the falls. The problem is as things progress they can't cope. You have said it's a small place so probably limited staff? I agree that they should have read up on it if they weren't aware.

However how many doctors know about it? I haven't met a GP who knows about it! Even in hospital the consultant who wanted to send my husband to the Nursing Home I originally wanted, 2 days before he died, clearly didn't have a clue he was dying much less what he had!

They will sort this out now you have a solicitor involved. Let us all know the outcome? Your Mother is lucky to have you fight for her.

Marie x

[sennen7 in reply to Marie_14]

Thanks Marie. I will let you know the outcome.