Hi everybody just to let you all know just home from holiday, and feeling well can only say like shit pardon my french, don't think I'll be doing again, tempture in high 30s and ship just a breeding ground,on sick day rules feel terrible, just a moan lol Harry W
Cruising not always good: Hi everybody just to let... - PMRGCAuk
Cruising not always good
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Harrywogan
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What a nightmare! I hope you feel better soon.
I recently (a few days ago) read news about a new Covid variant with cases on the rise. I’ve spent 10 minutes trying to find the article and came up with this
: ukhsa.blog.gov.uk/2024/05/1...
It would appear that this latest news isn’t important enough to be made more public. People need to know in order to make choices.
Should this go in the Covid section, DorsetLady?
We don’t have a Covid section anymore … apart from relevant information under Vaccines in FAQs
I did link this info in a previous post where a question was asked about getting latest Covid vaccines .
Thank you 🌸.
Yes, it’s back in my area and London with people complaining more about how ill they feel compared to other times. We had it two weeks ago (thanks to his work outbreak) and it likes the chest and not so much the gut this time in my experience. My daughters have it now and like me their lungs feel like they are hot. Our first symptoms were a night of ectopic heart beats or palpitations. It did feel different.
Those symptoms sound horrible!
I don’t think we can afford to be complacent and having LVV I’ll certainly once again be wary of crowded areas. There’s been little info from Public Health and vulnerable people need updates in order to make choices. What a not so merry merry-go-round we are on.
Well 123 had mask on on flight, and on any coaches,and theater and any where there was a crowd, people were coughing and I was only one with mask on, here's a laugh hubby got it first and I went to bed with my mask on and wiped down cabin, so I really did my best,but hay ho. X
You did do your best. Very selfish of ’coughers’ to mingle with others but who knows how the human mind works? Could be a case of, “I paid good money for this trip so……”
Feel better soon, Harrywogan 🤞.
"It's only a cold ..."
Sorry can turn out much more xx
Exactly, I was replying to 123-go - but they have also been brainwashed that Covid is also now "like a cold" so we can "just live with it".
If you don’t test it can’t be Covid.
Soaring world-wide temperatures- “It’s weather!”
Perhaps "weather plus ..."?
Stay calm or you may flare
Why me? Takes a lot more than that to make me flare!
It’s so difficult and it’s not nice standing out from the crowd as the only mask wearers. I got fed up with the looks. We notice the coughing starts in earnest from day 3. It’s the restaurants that are tricky onboard and on land. I just approach it as trying to reduce the viral load if I breath any in.
I had it 6 weeks ago. It seemed to be stronger (for me) than when I had it before. Spent two days in bed, isolated for 12days till negative & apart from other symptoms had a rather embarrassing cough. The isolation was my choice as guideline's vague.
oh crikey, didn't have the stomach symptoms as I had it right at the beginning (Jan 2020), but did get the lung symptoms big time. Every time I get a virus, it has gone to my chest, since around 2018, so that's a bit concerning if the chest symptoms are dominant again.
I had a nasty chest infection, asthma associated, with 3 lots of ABX and 4 weeks of 10mg, then 20mg then 30mg then 40mg then the taper down to 15mg today. Back to normal 3.5mg on Weds this coming week. I WAS NOT TOLD BY THE GP to stop the leflunomide so first ABX was pointless and the infection worsened. Nearly normal now after 30 days. Sputum clear,not green. Covid test -ve.
For all previous Covid jabs I’ve been called in due to me being classed as immune suppressed. But, for some reason, this last jab which was offered to folk, I asked at the surgery if I could have it as I was immune suppressed and they said I didn’t qualify. Really? Goal posts been changed at our surgery…🤔?
Has your Pred dose dropped much? That’s in the guidelines rather than the PMR disease itself.
I was on 3mg when I asked. 2.5 now….
Green Book states those on high to moderate doses of steroids are eligible … 2.5 or 3mg wouldn’t be in that range.
Perhaps someone different read the instructions this time around. 😊
With no consideration of long term pred and adrenal function effects. Which at under 5mg are likely in anyone with PMR or GCA.
Quite..
So is the immunosuppressant effect of Pred cumulative? I’m on only 3mg but been on PMR for nearly 4 years. First question on NHS app for booking vaccination is “ Do you have a weakened immune system (sometimes called immunosuppressed)?” I have asthma and especially don’t want a lung-focused variant of covid.
I don't think so no, But while still on even low pred it has had no chance to recover from the time at higher doses. Everyone is different - I've been on pred 15 years but really can't say that I have noticed my immune system being any weaker in terms of infections, only that I'm not as allergic to things as at the start of PMR. I have not knowingly had Covid either. Had the requisite jabs here in Italy though they haven't offered as many as the UK have been peddling.
See this - bit unwieldy to read through - but if you look at following might help you decide -
Page 24 - TABLE 3 - Clinical risk groups
Page 34 - BOX 1 -criteria for additional Covid vaccines
Don’t know who makes the rules…
A whole raft of medication personal - and all the different UK Health Authorities.
At mine too. The goal post was said to be 20mgs Pred, or age 75+.
Yep, exactly the same as me three weeks ago…& lung weaknesses & asthma make no difference, either!
DorsetLadyPMRGCAuk volunteer
Sorry to hear that. 😟 hope you soon feel better
Thanks DL,wore mask all the time people coughing not really bothered about the germs,hubby got it first, and I went to bed wareing my mask and wiped down cabin handles and things,was only one on flight wareing mask,and you get strange looks.lol xx
I hate wearing a mask as my glasses steam up and I keep tripping on things because I can't see where I am going. My middle ground is to take it out of my pocket quick and put it on if people around me are coughing. And if I am coughing and sneezing, I tend to isolate anyway. Always done that, long before Covid.
So sorry. It’s horrible coming back from holiday only to have one’s health meter re-set to minus 10. It feels like such a waste.
We nearly gave up cruising and my still yet, having caught Covid 2 out of 3 times. It is not the same since Covid and our behaviour has changed on board and it has certainly made us feel less free as we tend to behave differently to the herd which cuts down choices. Flights, hotels, busy streets, sights, shops are no different though and it’s sad. We are avoiding the Med in summer now because of temperatures. On balance we still find we want to go, but….
Sometime in the years since 2020 I concluded that I would never fly again, and also became aware, which I wasn't really before, what dreadful things these cruise ships are. They actually are environmentally worse than long distance flights, even factoring ln hotel stays on land when flying.. I've done a fair amount of travelling (although far less than some of our family) and think I've more than used up my share.
I haven’t yet read one article on this subject on either side of the argument that doesn’t pick and choose from which ships they take their data, those with more advanced design, energy recovery technology and engineering and the older ones of which there are plenty.
Well there are different ways of looking at things. For example powers that be are dead keen on electrifying the automobiles on this continent. But they pay little attention to perhaps creating a properly functioning public transportation network and releasing most individuals from the obligation to own an automobile, and society from the burden of its overwhelmingly expensive, wasteful infrastructure. In many ways our society suffers from illness just as we do, self-destroying like an autoimmune disease. Hmmm PMR as a metaphor?
Yep, they need to electrify the public transport system and make it as free as possible
Never mind that - before people will switch to electric vehicles, there must be a functioning and adequate recharging system. They can't even manage that in many countries! I would have no hesitation in buying an electric vehicle if I thought it would be as simple to drive to the UK from here as it is with diesel.
In your dreams - at the moment..😂🤣
Well quite!!!!
PMRproAmbassador
Hard luck! I have rather mixed feelings about cruises but would never go to the Med in June to August, Caribbean is wonderful but too hot to go ashore anytime for me! My daughter has just got back from Norway - had a great time and definitely not too hot!
I wouldn't go without access to a private balcony so I could avoid the great unwashed ... Considering doing a cruise from Rosyth as her husband has caught the cruising bug and would do Norway again or Iceland, cheap single inside cabin for me, they can have a fancy one with a balcony and share it in the daytime.
An older man in my extended family went on a cruise around the British Isles a few years ago, came down with a bug, and never really recovered. He rapidly developed dementia and died a year or so later in a home. Previous to the illness he'd been healthy and active, and a darn sight more competent than his sister, my step-mother,
How strange - wonder what the bug was.
Norovirus?
I was wondering about the post-infection neuro effects.
At the time I looked it up and there is the possibility of neurological effects, In my recollection it happened quite quickly. He loved to write letters and was the one person I heard from frequently. The last letter I received started off okay, but by the end dwindled off and never really finished, nor was it signed. Someone obviously took care of mailing it to me, but I never heard from him again, although I sent cards from time to time as his daughter said he liked to receive mail.
It was one of his daughters who told me what had happened. I never knew them well so didn't want to ask more questions.
That is concerning
We became very complacent about crowds of people living close together with clearing slums and bringing in public health measures, including vaccination and improved nutrition, completely forgetting how short a time we were generally so healthy. Now we create crowds of people from all sorts of places, ship them from country to country, and expect all to be well? Are we really the most intelligent animals that have ever been?
I think it depends on the cruise line. We travel with Fred. Olsen and I have been impressed with the hygiene measures since the start of Covid. They are not now allowed to ask for negative tests before boarding, which I thought was good. On a long cruise (to South America and Antarctica) we tested positive - no symptoms - and were immediately moved to a balcony cabin for isolation.
Later in the cruise there was an outbreak of norovirus. Affected people were immediately isolated, buffets were changed so only staff served the food and communal things like sugar bowls were removed from tables. Sadly, they had to station staff outside the public toilets to spray hands (anti viral and anti bac spray) because passengers could not be trusted to maintain good hygiene. (Passengers are always expected to sanitise hands at the entrance to dining rooms). I think the measures lasted for 5 days before the captain relaxed the measures.
I'm not sure other lines are as stringent with their infection control.
Sounds good - I cannot believe how many people don;t wash their hands after going to the loo!
What a bummer. I hope you recover quickly. Seriously, governments and public health have betrayed us all. I'd been looking forward to using my personal air purifier in the dining car on the train so we didn't have to rely on room service which is just being fed not the nice social time train dining offers, but the rise of the vaccine-escaping variants have put paid to that. It would have been so easy to keep us all safe. Make public masking socially desirable, and capable adults being unmasked unacceptable, A mask is, after all, just another garment, albeit also safety equipment.
And anti viral Covid nose sprays could have been a game changer for travelling but the development of these has clearly stalled or stopped altogether.
We've been using Betadine, iota-carrageenan, for adventures outside the home which might include unmasking. I made liberal use of it during my dental adventures last year! First I had to order it from an online store, but now the local pharmacy stocks it. Apparently it coats the nasal passges with a protective anti-viral film. There is another one which was actually developed in Canada but has never been approved for sale here, which uses nitric oxide, manufactured in Israel and very expensive. Enovid or Sanotize are brand names.
Thank you, I’m assuming from your reply that you are satisfied it’s working for you?
Well, during those times when I'm unmasked hope it's working, but of course don't know if there has been any virus present to protect against. I also use a CPC mouthwash and although didn't have one for the dental work last year now have a personal air purifier to use in places where I may well get exposed, such as meeting friends indoors, or doing my little volunteer task as a gallery attendant. But I remain masked. Did have a short meal in the dining car while on the train and used the device. Fellow passengers assumed it was a fan so I said no, a HEPA filter, and they were quite interested. ( smarterhepa, QT3 )
Basically layers of protection, not relying on any one thing, although if mask doesn't have to be removed (for dentist or eating) then a good respirator should be fine. I would never trust the mouthwash and/or nasal spray to be enough. Reading CO2 levels on the train was very enlightening, because our old train doesn't get any fresh air except at station stops when the doors are opened. I didn't know that before, very disturbing.
Thank you d seeing much for taking the time to reply with so much detail. Very interesting & much appreciated 😊
I feel your pain. I went on many cruises as part of my job and saw fabulous places all over the world. BUT these closed communities are lethal for the immune suppressed. Norovirus was so common, let alone picking up other people’s bugs. Bad weather, sea sickness and even the pleasure of visiting ports can take their toll. The brochures are tempting and gorgeous but there are other ways to see the world. I hope you feel better soon 😀
I cruise regularly (bucket list goals) and they are the perfect holiday for me. Choose Mediterranean, Adriatic and similar 'hot" European destinations no later than April, early May. Scandinavia, northern europe, British isles, best for June, July, August and early September. Cruising is comfortable in the best season for a given destination. Shore trips chosen for low activity level and manageable on bad flareup days. Easy to keep up regular manageable low level exercise regime, taylored to flare up levels, on sea days. Lectures, theatre, music, and other activities for the brain. Anywhere that people congregate is a breeding ground, airplane on return journey in late May gave us covid, we believe, but so worth it for the beautiful destinations we have seen. Taylored cruising works for us in our 80s. Each to his own of course. Good luck all.
I'm an anti social old bat and couldn't see me ever going on a conventional type cruise. Just the thought of being crammed in with all those strangers in a small space and not being able to escape gives me the eebie jeebies.
Hence my desire to have access to my own balcony!!!
Essential, I would think.
we have done 3 cruises since COVID, one 6 weeks in length from Rome to Sydney and have not got COVID. But it just took one bus load of tourists from the US coming into the same hotel as us all coughing and I got Covid in Belfast. They were on a 10 day bus tour so imagine that! Interesting response at A & E in Belfast. How do you know you have COVID? When I said that I had tested the response was Why did you test! Then I was told that antiviral medication is given to nobody. I stood my ground and showed the receptionist my medication (mycophenolate, lefludomide, prednisone etc) a quick turnaround and I saw a doctor immediately and was given a 2 hour infusion.
Like your style! I think the UK view has become if you don't test, you don't know and it doesn't exist ...
Yes your so right there, my daughter got it at work and phoned in to let them know and boss was very rude and said she shouldn't have tested and wanted her to come in to work and she works with vulnerable people. X
That is disgusting. What a nice human being - not ...
Have to agree..the ships now are breeding grounds for the Novo virus and everything else..my last cruise was in 2010 because I got so sick for weeks after ..was the second cruise that I left sicker than ever..so although great value for money...just not worth it...pity though I loved it..
I’m on day 22 of Covid. Never had it before. Still suffering balance issues, cough, energy drain, lung issues. Can’t go for a walk, not enough breath available! Wore masks for years, & we have to shield every winter due to other medical issues I have. I went to the Dr for an injection into my Coccyx which meant lying on my front & staying very still for a long time. Not possible in a mask. 3 days later I tested positive. I was in bed for five days…but on day 5 I had to get up clean the house & move all the bedding over to our motorhome, & make up a bed (with gloves & mask on) as the hospital released my husband into our home. He was in Hospital with pneumonia, urosepsis & acute kidney injury for ten days. They promised me they would not discharge him into a home where I couldn’t care for him & had Covid. It was Friday afternoon & they put him in a taxi in his night clothes with no money & sent him home. I’d found a friend to pick him up & phoned him but there was already a new patient in his bed! The Dr said he’d had his booster so it was OK. I tell you this so you can see how Covid is treated in England now. (FYI My doctor did all the forms & put me forward for anti virals…a Dr phoned me 36 hours later & said I wasn’t on 20mg of steroids so wasn’t eligible. You have to be taking different drugs which cause you immune system issues, ir chemo drugs etc). If you think back, we were all taught that the best breeding ground is a number of people inside with windows closed all breathing the same air…surely this makes planes bad & cruises worst. When I worked with laboratories they all said the same…basically cruise ships are just one gigantic Petri dish filled with bugs!!
No, planes have to be worse - at least on a ship you can remain in your cabin or go on deck!!
I was thinking of microfiltration…having spent 22 years working in a filtration company… some plane companies are excellent & change their filters regularly, & test often. They would be in touch with our aerospace division & placing orders. Some don’t & are purely recircling bugs! In my day, British Airways were excellent, but it may have changed since then! It’s not a matter of if they have the filters, it’s the maintenance & testing that most don’t bother with…oh, & replacement with new ones!! But the cruise ships…as far as I could make out they have their own systems. They are recirculating the air through your cabin, I would think, & therefore the quality is dependant upon whether they care, test, monitor, replace filters etc! Personally, I don’t think retreating to your cabin would help unless you had big French doors & a balcony & spent the whole trip with them open!! Yes, you can go on deck, too…but in bad weather?? Also, you’re likely to be on a ship much longer than a plane. You need to go to eat amongst those already infected (unless you have room service). I think, once an outbreak is noticed, living in room with doors open, & room service could make you safer…but not safe. Not disagreeing with you, just an interesting discussion! Personally, I never have been on a cruise, & wouldn’t go in past ten years once I started immune system problems (not PMR). As hubby did 27 years in the Navy he has no wish to be back onboard, either! Right, I must get on with the tasks for today! Washing on….
"unless you had big French doors & a balcony" - exactly. And I have spent a lot of the France to UK crossing on deck in a force 8. When it is like that in the North Sea, there are no people to be seen ...
I used to spend all the time on ferries up on deck, if rough…the only way I wasn’t seasick…but then they started closing all doors if above force 4? 5? Quite low, I think. Close doors in Force 8 to save people like me & you from going overboard, maybe!!
I did choose carefully where I went ...
I love it ‘up top’ when it’s rough seas! Just finished chores for today…overdid it! David’s kidney test results are back, & they’re not happy, so repeat tests next, & if he needs stuff done that will be another holiday out of the window! Heh ho!
Friends used to borrow the flat and it continued for a few years after we moved here permanently. We were usually away at international meetings when they came here but one year it didn't coincide but July here is manic and we struggled to find a pitch for the last few nights - so ended up on one literally down the road, And it was lovely - very quiet and peaceful, couple of decent restaurants to choose from.
I picture July manic! I was aiming for last week in August, & 1st week in September when I thought we could make it…but that’s a no go now! Plenty else to do, though! S xx
Still manic. Saw an article in the local media about how people are spreading their holiday timings. It has been busy from 2 weeks before Whitsun through until the middle of October for about 8 years - schools in southern Germany have holidays then, some before Whitsun weekend, some after. By the time they go,it is nearly time for northern Europe to start its summer breaks and then somewhere breaks up pretty much every week or so until the end of July when Bavaria is the last to start summer school break until the 9th-ish September, Baden-Wuertemburg is similar. Then the people with small or no children arrive from all of Europe. Then the first autumn school break is the end of September, the 3rd October is a public holiday so they make it a long weekend and then there are school holidays through the whole of October until Nov 3rd. October can be warm enough for a sun holiday - so they come with their campers and their bikes and hike in the mountains. Even our lifts run until the 10th of November, close for 2 weeks for servicing and reopen for skiing at the end of November. Until the end of April.
See!! That’s exactly the problem! In the old days retired folk could work out a nice clear patch of time, remembering hols in uk france Italy & Switzerland, oh & Germany! Now, it’s hopeless! Sadly october just isn’t warm enough for our lung issues & my sciatica, bursitis & hypermobility! All those worse when cooler! S xx
Very enlightening post and I’m now seriously considering if we should go on a cruise at all. I was thinking of the Fjords or a cold place cruise but I don’t imagine they are any safer. I’m not even immunosuppressed and want to stay that way. I’ve never tested for Covid or had it as far as I know but then we strictly isolated etc . We do fly of course and went to Thailand in February but mainly we drive across Europe (hubby’s a keen driver ), I just navigate badly so we’ve seen more of Europe than expected 😉
Driving is safer. We wear FFP2 masks from moment entering an airport until exit the other end! You can’t do that on a cruise & usually have to share a restaurant with lots of people. It’s a choice, take the risk, or don’t. But if you go cruising & catch ‘flu, Covid, C.Diff etc, don’t moan about it, basically!!! It was my first time with Covid, we shielded for 3x4 years & we have to shield each winter (not for PMR, for my lung issues). Just remember…bugs & viruses love cruise ships!! S xx no, it doesn’t matter if you go to the Antarctic…the passengers bring the bugs & viruses from uk, USA, Canada, Australia…worldwide!! Don’t please think that if you go somewhere cooler that will protect you! In fact it’s worse as all the windows on the ship will be closed!!
Point taken thanks as I was naively thinking the cold would be a form of protection. May have to resort to wild camping ….. ticks, mosquitoes, is anywhere safe?
I live in the New Forest & have ticks in our garden let alone the animal filled forest! But there’s a safe way to remove them! I looked up to see where you live & see you have orthostatic hypotension…I was diagnosed with it last year! Such fun (not)! The outdoors will always be safer than the indoors! Some people on this forum are on their 3rd or 4th bout if Covid…many don’t try & avoid it now.,..! But now I’m still suffering on day 23 I will do!! S x
I’m in Cambridgeshire, flat rather than wooded but I’m visiting the New Forest in August so I’ll be wary of ticks.
Since orthostatic hypotension was diagnosed at A&E my GP told me over the phone that she thinks it’s BPPV and sent a sheet of neck exercises to do. I confess to doing them just once as arthritis pain in neck already causes nausea and the exercises made it loads worse. I have also discovered my eyes process images oddly and get overwhelmed which causes dizziness, the optician told me this so not much to go on but a trip to the supermarket definitely induced nausea and vertigo for some reason. This morning arthritic rib pain is crushing my chest which won’t help but as all know it’s about pacing. How do you deal with orthostatic hypotension? I was prescribed Prochlorperazine which helps with migraines too.
Look on the internet for Epley Manoeuvre - and get someone who help you try it. Any GP worth their salt would do it for you - but they are a bit risk averse, you might be sick!
the Epley manoeuvre made me physically, & immediately, sick!! Quite awful…& others I know had the same problem. My Dr recommend the Brandt-Daroff manoeuvre, which, for some unknown reason, seems less of an issue (but yes, still nausea)! Strangely, & not connected, I assume, I’ve had dreadful trouble with vertigo while having Covid!! Lovely combination! S xx
Interesting! I already had BPPV…for about 3 years, & nowhave orthostatic hypertension, too. The two are quite different, & easy to diagnose, really! The exercises make me too sick (literally & sometimes just dreadful nausea & dizziness)! The prochlorperazine does help me…it’s an anti sickness drug but also contains something to help with dizziness. It makes me very drowsy, though, so if driving that day, for example, I take cyclizine, the same anti sickness but without the other element. Yes, it should help 5he sickness element of migraines (I’ve had a few classic ones & my Mum was a bad sufferer). Sometimes I get a similar eye issues, it’s like I can only focus on half a page or half a person…& for me it’s a definite warning that a migraine is arriving & I take Migraleve immediately!! Usually due to overdoing it…story of my life! Whoops! Must be twins, I have arthritis & my neck has never been the same after 4 car crashes when I was stationary each time, hence neck injuries! Yes, pacing is the key, don’t forget it. You’ve chosen a very busy time to visit the New Forest, I hope you enjoy it. We get ticks because our garden backs onto woods, & because we go walking in remote forest areas! Most visitors get them when they (illegally…£1,000 fine) touch or feed the animals! Don’t worry, it’s a magical place for relaxation! S x
On the other hand - daughter and husband just got back from a Southhampton to Norway cruise - no problems! And she would have commented had she felt there was Covid on board - she's in the ED!
sure…I’m not trying to say everybody who goes on a cruise gets Covid! Just saying it’s not a way to avoid it, & if you want a ‘safe’ hokiday, that’s not it!! S x
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