Vit K2

[4683Louise]

Please help with direction on the best form of Vit K2 for PMR folks... MK4 or MK7. Also grateful for the "why" when choosing one over the other (or another form of K2 I haven't found yet); and how much? Thank you.

[Marcy47]

I use MK-7 from Healthspan. On the pack it says "MK-7 reaches bones and vessel walls more easily and remains biologically active in our bodies for longer". I have been using it for 4 yrs. hope this helps.

[Koalajane]

I use mark 7

[maria40 in reply to Koalajane]

I've been taking Mk 7 for about six months as I had to stop taking AdCal because of kidney stones and replaced it with a seaweed derived calcium. I thought that the K2 would be a good addition. I haven't had a dexascan since but will be interested to see when the world starts functioning again what effect, if any, this has had.

[maria40 in reply to maria40]

PS. I also take extra strength Vitamin D

[PMRpro Ambassador]

This link comes with a health warning: it is part of a sales pitch so probably rather biased. However, it does summarise the difference quite well in understandable language:

nbihealth.com/mk7-hip-fract...

This

healthline.com/nutrition/vi...

is from a usually reliable source and also very easy to read. It is also worth scrolling down at the end - there are links to other discussions which are of interest.

This

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

is seriously heavy duty science speak - but the conclusion is that MK-7 is better absorbed by the body:

"Consecutive MK-4 supplementation did not increase plasma MK-4 levels whereas MK-7 supplementation significantly increased plasma MK-7 levels in healthy female subjects. This is in-line with previous published works, which indicated nutritional doses of MK-7 (45–90 μg/day) to be effective for carboxylation of osteocalcin [16,17].

Because all vitamin K homologues can be converted to MK-4 in vivo, MK-4 is considered to have specific functions other than γ-carboxylation of vitamin K-dependent proteins [9-11]. However, in a previous rat study from our group [18], the intake of a nutritional dose of MK-4 did not increase the MK-4 levels in extrahepatic tissues, whereas MK-7 significantly increased MK-4 in extrahepatic tissues. Thus, MK-7 is a better supplier for MK-4 in vivo than MK-4 itself.

In this study, we demonstrated that a nutritional dose of MK-7 is well absorbed in human, and significantly increases serum MK-7 levels, whereas MK-4 had no effect on serum MK-4 levels. Therefore, the nutritional values of vitamin K2 homologues should be differentiated with regard to bioavailability and efficacy."

By the way - the information is generally relevant, PMR isn't going to be affected one way or the other by vit K.

[Boss302Fan in reply to PMRpro]

PMR isn’t affected by K2 but if taking Calcium supplements, and D3 to facilitate Ca absorption into the blood K2 MK7 above a certain dose can help prevent excess blood borne calcium being deposited onto arterial walls. The question comes down to the dosage to be effective. One of the research papers I posted a link to awhile back mentioned >=120 ug / day dose to be effective and it taking 3 years to see the benefit thereof? My GP was ok with 50 ug but not more. Although unlike K1 “my” understanding is K2 plays a far lessor role in the blood clotting mechanism which is her concern.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Boss302Fan]

The original question was about the best for "PMR folks"

[nuigini in reply to PMRpro]

Well, I'm really confused, or maybe it's ticked off at myself. All along I've been thinking I've been taking the right one. I mean, its not like this topic hasn't been posted before!

After reading the first link which basically says MK4 is the one preventing fractures I checked and I've been taking MK7! I hope it's doing me some good, there's certainly enough information out there touting the benefits of MK7. I recently stocked up on my supply so it's MK7 for some time to come since with COVID-19 in full swing I won't be able to change it up until I get back to Canada.

Of course with foggy brain in full swing, I may have misinterpreted all of this.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to nuigini]

No - MK7 is absorbed better, then MK-7 can be converted to MK-4.

"Because all vitamin K homologues can be converted to MK-4 in vivo"

According to that above - it's all fine ...

[nuigini in reply to PMRpro]

Whew! Thanks.

[nickm001]

or you can try natural source of Vit K2 - natto. It is loaded with other micro-nutrients beside K2 like Potassium, calcium, vit C, Iron, B6, magnesium, just to name a few. It is very inexpensive and can be found in just about any Japanese store. The only negative - it takes some tome to get used to it - it definitely is an acquired taste.

[Hidden in reply to nickm001]

If only. Really hard to get here from a trusted source and most small place aren't shipping chilled or frozen foods. I considered making it a while back but sterilising everything before hand too much for my cooking style. I will have to stick to tofu, tempeh and attempt homemade seitan again. Not vk2 really but hey ho.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Hidden]

Sterilising????

[Hidden in reply to PMRpro]

Probably wrong word...not medical level but you basically are required to boil all instruments for at least 5mins. I presume to allow the proper bacteria that ferments the beans to have a solo game. Too much prep for me. 😂🤣😂

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Hidden]

None of the versions I read said anything about that ...

[Hidden in reply to PMRpro]

If you get it premade that's ok. But if you use the starter it says boil stuff. I had to do it years ago but wasn't successful due to temp of flat I lived in. I would try it if I got either natto or starter from good source. I have been missing tempeh terribly. I would like to do that as well.

[Boss302Fan in reply to Hidden]

I get mine from VitaCost and it has the MenaQ7 I’ve seen referenced. But here is additional info with references at the end.

smarter-reviews.com/lp/top-...

[Hidden in reply to Boss302Fan]

I use a spray normally but was all for adding things to my diet if possible.

[nickm001 in reply to Hidden]

I must say that I never attempted to make it myself. Here it is readily available and cheap ( 3 pack is about 80 yen ~ 0.5 euros). Daily dose is about half the pack.

I do understand that jars ( or whatever container you plan to use) have to be steamed to prevent spoilage. Same goes for ingredients.

[Hidden in reply to nickm001]

I will track it down from a good source eventually. 🤞

[nickm001 in reply to Hidden]

Asked my wife about natto making process. It is much more complicated then some other fermented products. She also said that when she lived in UK, she had no problem finding Japanese products even in a smaller places away from London. She suggested to perhaps have natto delivered in larger quantity and freeze until it is needed as an option.

[Hidden in reply to nickm001]

That's the point. There is a lockdown in the UK. No one I could find online or in my town is delivering from the small shops. Especially frozen or chilled goods. I presume it's not cost effective.

[nickm001 in reply to Hidden]

My bad, I thought you could not find natto under normal condition. Lock-down shall pass, hopefully soon it will transition into "softer"version, with some special shopping hours for us, over 65.

[Hidden in reply to nickm001]

As soon as I can go out I will find it as I quite like veggie weird taste from that area of the world. 🌻

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Hidden]

You could teach your volunteer shopper about different foods - I'd go looking for you like a shot!!!

[Hidden in reply to PMRpro]

I couldnt find one that was open for daily shopping. I have now got a local number that came through the door at the weekend. It's my local churches and council charities. I will ring them for stuff as I will be sure they know the area. 👍