raw and fermented foods

[gtate1914]

As I understand it, raw and fermented foods such as raw milk, raw honey, yogurt, and kefir are supposed to be a no-no, while we are taking immuno-suppressive drugs, such as prednisone, methotrexate, etc, .... has anyone of you suffered any illness or infections as a result of consuming these delicious and healthy foods? I realize the yogurt and kefir are usually pasturized and the good bactria is added afterwards, but the raw milk and raw honey have all its goodness intact.

[piglette]

I had never heard that, do you have more information? Quite a lot of us go for things like kefir, also a yogurt each morning with our pred dose.

[gtate1914 in reply to piglette]

Me also. I was doing some reading various articles online where it said those with suppressed immunity or the elderly should not eat raw honey, kefir, yogurt or drink raw milk, and it did not sound right to me, except perhaps for the raw milk for which I have my own opinion.

If the raw milk is from a reliable source then I'm all for it. I was just wondering if anyone had had any problems with these foods.... I've never heard of anyone having problems. I never have.

[piglette in reply to gtate1914]

I was reading in the Times today about fake news!! Perhaps it was in the Daily Mail. They come up with some pretty incredible health stories.

[Lonsdalelass in reply to piglette]

Yes, I do! What is this info you have about not taking Kefir with pred? I need to know, because I have another four bottles waiting in my fridge!!

[Lonsdalelass in reply to Lonsdalelass]

That was in reply to piglet about taking Kefir, not having problems.

[piglette in reply to Lonsdalelass]

It was in reply to gtate’s post. A bit worrying!!

[breeze43]

I have PMR/GCA flaring again, last time was on pred for almost 18 months. I checked, for hours all the info on anti inflammatory foods and I lived on yogurt, (only dairy I had), fermented foods, fish, no red meat, but also no chicken, low sugar fruits, certain veggies. I am going to eat this flare away!

Everyone has to do what they believe will help with good info, this community helped me tremendously-also curious as to where you received that info. Interesting. Good luck!!!

[Daisychain12 in reply to breeze43]

Bravo!!

[piglette in reply to breeze43]

There was something in the press today saying that we need 30g of carbs a day, and cutting out carbs can cause early death! I think the research was originally in the Lancet. Probably next week we will be told that carbs are bad!

[SnazzyD in reply to piglette]

I don’t think anyone here is saying don’t take any carbs. To avoid carbs altogether would take quite some doing I would have thought. There are carbohydrates in fruit and veg, especially root veg and things like peas and squashes. I’d imagine a full no carbs would give you constipation, bad breath and a sense of humour depletion.

[piglette in reply to SnazzyD]

I think no wine would have the same effect on me.

[Ladybird25 in reply to piglette]

I heard that too piglette. They were also recommending more fibre to reduce the risk of cancer, strokes and heart disease.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to piglette]

No, 30g of fibre - not carbs. I looked up what you have to eat to get 30g of fibre - if I ate that I'd be like a barrage balloon...

[piglette in reply to PMRpro]

You are absolutely right. The Times had all sorts of suggestions.

[Meggsy]

I have been making and consuming kefir for the last 4-5 years and have added fermented veges (amongst other things) to my diet since PMR diagnosis. Going ok so far!

[Daisychain12 in reply to Meggsy]

Oooh pleeeeassssee tell me how to make the vegetables!!!

[Rugger in reply to Daisychain12]

Google 'kimchi' Linda. I have made it, but then struggled to eat my way through it! Sauerkraut is also fermented, but the kind you buy in jars has been pasteurised, so not 'live'.

Hope today is going well. x

[Meggsy in reply to Daisychain12]

Daisy I only make the kefir. I buy the sauerkraut at Woolies,(refrigerated section, the unrefrigerated ones have been pasteurised) and a variety of other fermented veges is available at our local farmers market. I intend to make my own soon. There are lots of demonstrations on YouTube.

[Meggsy in reply to Meggsy]

PS Coles sell three brands of kefir. Sometimes I use the Table of Plenty brand to start a fresh batch. It’s the one I had most successful with.

[Iloveholidays in reply to Meggsy]

I am new to this site (loving the support and advice) and learning something everyday, just hope my brain can retain the information! I just had to google kefir as never heard of it, I see it’s goats milk & yogurt, is this something good to help with PMR? I am really trying to understand what are the best things to eat and what to avoid. Any advice greatly received.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Iloveholidays]

Avoiding carbs, especially white and processed ones, should help you avoid some of the pred associated weight gain and pred-induced diabetes. Not a keto diet but definitely reduced carb and especially sugar which is very pro-inflammatory.

Everyone is different and different people find different things make them feel worse - you just have to experiment a bit.

[Iloveholidays in reply to PMRpro]

Thank you.

I tend to eat brown rice and pasta anyway, and if I have bread it’s brown whole meal, is this still ok? I have reduced my portion sizes. I have cut down on sugar (biscuits, cakes & choclate) since reading posts on here. Also no longer have fat free yogurts due to the sugar content and having full fat natural or Greek yogurt adding my own fruit. Would kefir yogurt be even better? Appreciate all advice

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Iloveholidays]

There isn't really a "better" or "worse". Again, everyone is different and how much carb you can eat and not gain weight varies from person to person. I'm a Greek yog (5% fat and no flavouring) person when I do eat it and I use it in cooking too. For example, I make low carb cauliflower cheese using a yog and an egg beaten into it for the cheese sauce. I use that to make the topping for mousakka as well using aubergine/egg plant and a meat sauce. I don't like kefir particularly and it isn't easy to find here where I live so I don't use it but Skyr is useful. OTOH I eat almost no rice or pasta - the very occasional risotto but the portions here are small anyway and it has to be something special to tempt me.

[Fifegran in reply to Iloveholidays]

I have kefir every morning on my porridge with mixed berries, it’s delicious. You can buy it in either Morrisons or Sainsburys here in the UK. Started it 6 months ago with no ill-effects and found I don’t need the Omeprazole the doctor wanted me to take to protect stomach lining. You can also get flavoured kefir but haven’t tried that yet.

[Iloveholidays in reply to Fifegran]

Thank you I’ll try it.

[Daisychain12]

I’m too scared to eat anything raw or fermented but I am ridiculous xxxx

[nickm001 in reply to Daisychain12]

Every time you take antibiotics it kills good bacteria in your guts. The easiest way to recover them is to eat fermented food. Most of us take yogurt with pred to help protect stomach lining. That is yet another benefit of fermented food.

[powerwalk]

Crikey - I have yoghurt every day!!!! Never heard of this.

[PMRpro Ambassador]

I have eaten cheese I imagine - some of our alm cheeses are made with raw milk. And in the past I drank raw milk, collected from the can in the cowshed on the farm where we lived.

However - it must be made clear that products that are made with raw milk must be labelled as such in Europe and pretty much anything you buy in a supermarket will have been pasteurised. I think the likelihood anyone has unpasteurised kefir is minimal.

I'm sorry - but I think the benefits of raw milk are grossly over-egged (if you'll excuse the term).

healthline.com/nutrition/dr...

[SnazzyD in reply to PMRpro]

When I was a kid and it came round to Tuberculosis testing and vaccination in the 70’s I didn’t need the vaccine because my test came up positive. It was put down to messing about with cows and drinking raw milk.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to SnazzyD]

My TB response was always mega - and was used, like OH's, for experiments as a model for inflammation. OH has had TB it appears from his CT - we drank raw milk when we lived in Germany and went to the US base to church and mixed with a lot of squaddies. Which might it have been? We'll never know... I also drank raw milk at home as a child - still warm. Yum...

[Hellyowl]

I think a sensible diet with a wide variety of foodstuffs so that you get all your vitamins and minerals is probably best. Be very careful about info on the internet about food trends, people have their motives for pushing trends (often financial). We are lucky in our 1st world countries to have choice, probably to much choice. I think most of us on pred become closely tuned to our bodies and really we know what suites us. I know red wine makes my muscle pain worse, but I still have a couple of glasses at the weekend!!!! can't be perfect.

P.S. I have yogurt most mornings. If I crave something sweet a small bowl of yogurt with a teaspoon of honey does the trick and it is probably better than cake.

[piglette in reply to Hellyowl]

Totally agree about a balanced diet. People like Gwynneth Paltrow can be positively dangerous in my opinion!

[Hellyowl in reply to piglette]

I really think that people like her are dangerous, and how does it make people feel if they can't afford all those fancy foods. I do think it is important to drink enough water every day and I do forget. I know I feel better when I drink a bit more water and that is free, because we are fortunate to have good drinking water in the UK.

[piglette in reply to Hellyowl]

I have drinking bottles around the house. I am not sure how good the water is round here as I can smell a chlorine smell when I run a tap. It is cheap though better than lashing out on Evian. Also we have very hard water so hopefully helping my bone density.

[Hellyowl in reply to piglette]

Yes I am in a very hard water area, ruins kettles and irons but is supposed to be very good for us. In a previous job I went on a course about safe water and learned that once bottled water is opened bacteria start to breed so it should be drunk fairly quickly. I am a big fan of tap water, even if it sometimes smells of chlorine We are also trying to reduce our plastic waste.

[nickm001 in reply to Hellyowl]

besides plastic waste, one should also worry about chemicals that leach out of plastic into water. Glass is far better.

[Meggsy in reply to piglette]

Hi Piglette,

I have read that if you leave a container of water uncovered for a few hours or overnight the chlorine and it’s smell will evaporate.

[SnazzyD in reply to piglette]

Yes, aren’t we supposed to be steam cleaning our wotsits now too?

[piglette in reply to SnazzyD]

Oh no!

[SnazzyD in reply to piglette]

According to Gwyneth!

[gtate1914]

Thanks for all the replies. You just confirmed what I thought about fermented foods and raw honey. Not all we read from "experts" is correct. Wish I could find the article I read, went through my browser history but could not find it. Common sense and experience dictate what to do.

[MaryWR]

I have made and consumed my own kefir, kombucha and fermented vegetables throughout my PMR and experienced nothing but good. Keep it up.

[Pollyanna16]

My son has Crohns & ferments vegetables, makes kefir, kombucha & bone broth. His consultant is amazed he has been able to keep off the drugs for some years. He is very dedicated, has more discipline than his mother, but if he goes off track for a few days he may not feel well. Then tends to fast & get back to eating those good foods. It works for him.

[HeronNS]

I wouldn't consume raw milk no matter what. Don't understand the problem with the other things. Fermenting is a way of preserving foods and if prepared properly shouldn't be a problem. The only one I've heard might be questionable is kombucha which apparently can get contaminated.

[prunus]

Just to say I've never had any problems with the items you list whilst on predisolone.

[gtate1914 in reply to prunus]

Do you drink raw milk or eat raw honey?

[prunus in reply to gtate1914]

No to the milk, but I've eaten plenty of raw honey when my father kept bees many years ago.