Dead slow and nearly stop reduction plan - PMRGCAuk

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Dead slow and nearly stop reduction plan

PMRpro
PMRproModerator
62 Replies

I have been asked by two or three people on another thread about this reduction. Because of the way this forum works I thought it was simpler to just start a new thread so it is obvious where it is - I've posted it several times already but there is no real way to find it again that I can see. It is long to try to make it understandable - those of you who use word processing will be able to copy and paste it into a file on your computers to read again and again.

"Reducing pred: dead slow and nearly stop"

In an attempt to make this reduction scheme available more simply to the people who request it I am posting it here where it can be found easily. I hope noone minds but I have copied and pasted it what feels like dozens of time!

"A group of us worked out reduction schemes individually that have allowed us to reduce far further than ever before but they are all basically the same - and they were based on a scheme a Swedish gentleman worked out when he simply couldn't get below 3mg without pain. Img at that level is 33%, 1/2mg is 17% - way above the 10% that has been recommended for years. So he used table to see the daily doses and took the new dose on one day, old dose for a few days and then proceeded by repeating that and then reducing the number of days of old dose - until he got to everyday new dose. It worked, he got off pred and has been off pred for at least 3 years (it could be longer). Something similar to mine is being tried by a consultant rheumatologist in the north of England and he too finds it works for every single patient he has given it to. As it did for several ladies beforehand.

My reductions are VERY slow. I use the following pattern to reduce each 1mg:

1 day new dose, 6 days old dose

1 day new dose, 5 days old dose

1 day new dose, 4 days old dose

1 day new dose, 3 days old dose

1 day new dose, 2 days old dose

1 day new dose, 1 day old dose

1 day old dose, 2 days new dose

1 day old dose, 3 days new dose

1 day old dose, 4 days new dose

1 day old dose, 5 days new dose

1 day old dose, 6 days new dose

By that stage if I feel OK I feel safe to go all new dose. I suppose you might be OK starting and stopping at "1 day new, 4 days old" but I was terribly sensitive to steroid withdrawal pain so I err on the safe side. Once you get to the "everyday new dose" - if you feel OK you can start on the next reduction, no real need to spend a month at the new dose.

This avoids steroid withdrawal pain - which is so similar to PMR pain that you often can't tell which is which and some of us suspect that many flares are NOT the PMR returning but problems with steroid withdrawal. Using a scheme like this also means you can stop immediately if you have any problems - you might be fine at one day old dose, 2 days new (lower) dose but not at a 3 day gap - but you have dropped your dose a lot and that is the idea. It also isn't as slow as you would think - you can reduce at a rate of about 1mg/month on a continual basis.

The Bristol group start new patients with PMR with 6 weeks 15mg, 6 weeks at 12.5mg and then a year at 10mg before continuing the reduction and that achieves a far lower rate of flare (20% instead of 60%) and I suspect their flares then come below 10mg as they then do the 1mg at a time reduction. Just below 10mg is a common dose for people to get stuck at - and I (and others) believe it is because even 10% drops are too much for many patients. These patients are then labelled as "steroid resistant" or told they need methotrexate to help them reduce but we have seen this slow reduction work for those patients too. We believe that methotrexate (MTX) works for patients who have late onset rheumatoid arthritis (LORA) or LORA and PMR together. Very few patients get off pred altogether when taking the MTX - those who do are probably the mis-diagnosed LORA patients - or another arthritis that responds to MTX.

When you are at doses below 5mg it is a good idea to rest at each new dose for a month at least before trying the next reduction. At this point you risk overshooting the dose that is controlling the inflammation so waiting a short time to see if symptoms reappear is helpful. If you just continue there is a possibility that you get to very slightly below the "right dose" and inflammation will start to reappear very slowly. The blood tests will lag even further behind the dose reduction - there must be enough inflammation to increase the proteins being measured for the blood tests to rise.

Contrary to the beliefs held by many doctors it is NOT a race to reduce the pred dose. Doing that will lead to flares, needing to go back to a higher dose and starting again - and the end result is you took MORE pred than if you had reduced more slowly.

62 Replies
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Judemymum

Thank you very much for this; it comes at a perfect time for me, as I'm having what I suppose is a flare up. I increased my dose this morning from 7.5mg to 9mg and will do as you suggest. It makes good sense.

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JoanJo
JoanJo
in reply to Judemymum

That's it! Thanks so much.

JJ

1 like
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Llanboidy

PMRpro

Thank you so much for this. I told my GP about it today and will be starting with 4 days old/1 day new to move from 12.5 to 11mgs. She seemed quite happy about it even though she originally told me to go from 12.5 to 10mg after 2 weeks! I will probably slow down when I get to lower doses. It's such a relief to know that I'm doing what I can to avoid flareups.

Once again many thanks.

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sharon1953

Hi, PMRpro, I am little confused about the system for reduction, for example, as there are 7 days in the week and you take a dose each day, how can you have for example " 1 day new dose, 2 days old dose" what's happening on the other 4 days? I'm obviously not reading it right so would appreciate any help you can offer. I've had another flare up, only the stupid nurse that gave me the results of my recent blood test told me the inflammation markers were normal, but i was getting shoulder pains and fatigue and I wanted a flue jab so went to the GP the next day to be told I needed to increase my steroids as the markers were up. I've only gone from 5mg to 7.5, and feel better, still got slight shoulder pains though!

3 likes
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PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to sharon1953

Forget 7 days in the week. You are just taking the new dose for 1 day each time but getting those days closer together.

Take the new dose for 1 day, then take the old dose for the next 6 days.

Take the new dose for one day, then take the old dose for the next 5 days.

Take the new dose for one day, then take the old dose for the next 4 days.

Take the new dose for one day, then take the old dose for the next 3 days.

Take the new dose for one day, then take the old dose for the next 2 days.

Take the new dose for one day, then take the old dose the next day.

Now you are at one day old dose, one day new dose.

Take the new dose for 2 days, then take the old dose for 1 day.

Take the new dose for 3 days, then take the old dose for 1 day.

Take the new dose for 4 days, then take the old dose for 1 day.

Take the new dose for 3 days, then take the old dose for 1 day.

Take the new dose for 4 days, then take the old dose for 1 day.

Take the new dose for 5 days, then take the old dose for 1 day.

Take the new dose for 6 days, then take the old dose for 1 day.

And then you can embark on every day new dose!

Many doctors say that when you have a flare it is a good idea to have a few days at your present dose plus 5mg - so for you that would be a few days at 10mg and then drop to 7.5mg and then start your slow reduction again. I did that recently and it really worked very quickly but I didn't drop the dose until all the niggles had disappeared.

Never accept "your results are normal", especially from a nurse but doctors don't get it right either. Ask for the figures and keep a note in a diary - if you have a mathematical mind, draw a graph of the readings so you can see what they do. Make a note of colds, accidents, stress - and see if there is a pattern. There often is.

21 likes
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sharon1953
sharon1953
in reply to PMRpro

Thanks so much for that, and yes, I had wondered how high to go back up to. My GP seems to just leave everything to me, not much help at all. They seem to know less than I do which is not much at all. I was reluctant to go all the way back up the 30 mg that I was first on, but 10 doesn't sound too bad, so I'll increase and hope that puts a lid on it. It will be 2 years in Feb when this hit me out of the blue. But I don't seem to have the symptoms everyone else has, just the terrible pain the shoulders and fatigue. Never had problems with lack of movement (other than having weak shoulder muscles just after the attack) and I don't get pain anywhere else. I asked about seeing a Rheumy and the GP says that the latest guideline is for GP's to manage this condition, no need to see one, "and they wouldn't do anything different anyway". Which in a way is good for Holiday Insurance, one less person to declare that I see. My insurance to USA sent my premiums sky high when I declared PMR, I guess they were afraid I might develop GCA. One of my GP's told me this was so rare, he hadn't seen a case in 40 years of practice. Doesn't look that way reading this forum though! Thanks again for your help, it's nice to know this forum exists, I don't feel so isolated with this now, never heard of this before I got it!

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PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to sharon1953

He isn't quite correct on that - if anything is atypical then you should see a rheumy. That means being young (under 50) or an incomplete response to 15mg pred. You needn't be fully pain-free but there should be at least the 70% improvement in everything - except maybe fatigue since that is the autoimmune bit and the pred doesn't touch that.

You need to search around for travel insurance. PMR shouldn't send premiums sky-high - most of us found about £3 was added when mentioned, which if course you must.

Your GP is right - most GPs often haven't knowingly seen a case of GCA during their career. Often they miss it or diagnose stroke and send the patient to hospital (if the patient is lucky). GCA should be seen as an emergency just like a stroke and diagnosed by a consultant. But even they can fail miserably until damage is done.

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sharon1953

Pretty typical, over 60, pain stopped in shoulders about 2 hours after starting 30 mg pred. Fatigue also vanished, in fact I dashed out into the garden and did about 3 hours weeding I felt so good. It was only then I realised how tired a had been before. I assume that's because the pred is suppressing the PMR. For me the first warning that things are not right is the fatigue returns then the pain starts. I carry large doses of Pred when I go on hols, just in case things take a turn for the worst. I certainly pay more than £3.00 extra for annual cover, and that's after filling in at least 10 medical screenings to cross check as well as using the compare websites!

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PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to sharon1953

You are often better going to specialist companies than trying to do it online. I have always done my searches that way. Mention any illness on any ordinary site and they will almost certainly automatically either reject you or add a stupid amount to the premium. The specialist companies are much more sensible - usually means making a phone call though.

It is also worth asking on the forums if anyone has any recommended companies.

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sharon1953
sharon1953
in reply to PMRpro

Done the specialist ones and the over 50's, 60's Ageuk, Saga, all pretty much the same, best so far is the one we are already with LV. £136 for 8 days for both of us, which includes winter sports and covers all our ailments! Travel insurance is so complicated; there are so many variables - from the amount covered for delayed luggage to dropping dead! Trying to compare like-for-like requires a degree in mathematics.

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tomh

Thnks the post, v helpful. Would u kindly e-mail to me the word document on pred reduction.

tomharper164@gmail.com

Thanks in advance

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PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to tomh

Done!

1 like
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notnice
notnice
in reply to PMRpro

Hi PMRpro i would be very greatful if you could e-mail the word document on pred reduction to me as well please, thank you smboom63@gmail.com

3 likes
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PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to notnice

Sorry - in a bit of hurry so will try to do it later but it is here:

healthunlocked.com/pmrgcauk...

and you can copy and paste it into Word yourself.

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notnice
notnice
in reply to PMRpro

Many thanks, this will be very helpful when I reach a lower stage.

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alexgranma13

Hi I took a photo on my phone of the last time PMRpro gave out the info.

Hope you all taking care

Chrsitine

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Rose1bud
Rose1bud
in reply to tomh

Would u please e-mail me the document on pred reductiom

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PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to Rose1bud

I'm sorry, I don't have it as a file - the link is a couple of posts above and you can copy and paste it yourself.

Or contact this charity site and they will send you this taper plan and another similar one by email:

pmr-gca-northeast.org.uk

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littlewren

Thankyou so much for this I am going to try it when I hear from doctor about my blood tests.

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margiebell4

Thank you this is so helpful. I have been on 15mg since diagnosis 4 weeks ago. I have an appointment with my GP on Wednesday and I intended to tell her about this. Do you recommend the gradual reduction from the start or just when the a lower dose has been reached?

1 like
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PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to margiebell4

It really does depend a lot on the patient. I used it from 15mg down because I am very sensitive to the reduction of dose and I can't cut my tablets as they are a special coated form. On the other hand, a lot of people manage 1mg "overnight" or by going via a week of alternate days old and new dose.

Many doctors say 2.5mg at a time and again there are some patients who manage to go from 15 to 12.5 without problems. Below 10mg though I would say the slow reduction is far better. Apart from anything else, the withdrawal discomforts many patients complain of seem to simply not occur with this slow approach at any level.

Top experts have said for years that, as a general rule of thumb, any reduction should not be more than 1% of the current dose. At 15mg that would be 1.5mg reducing to 1mg at 10mg daily dose - 1mg reductions are simply erring on the safe side.

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Heidi_SF
Heidi_SF
in reply to PMRpro

In your last paragraph I know you mean "...not be more than 10%."

Just trying to limit the confusion! :-)

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Deemar

I shall copy this immediatley. I am new to the forum and should have read this before I posted my first post re Am I Reducing too quickly. Now I just have to translate this into French and show it to my rheumy!

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PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to Deemar

Sorry - can't oblige there but I did translate a French paper about GCA into English for a student last year! I didn't know my French was so good but I am a professional science translator so know the tricks. It was a challenge but such fun!

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Deemar
Deemar
in reply to PMRpro

Well, I shall only do the succinct points! He's quite open to suggestions so am not expecting to have much of a problem convincing him.

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Hidden
Hidden

I'm a 77 year old lady who before my illness was very active playing golf and teaching dance exercise, so I thank you so much for posting this valuable information for sufferers of PMR/GCA.

I have been on 'Pred' since being diagnosed with this condition in 2009. I was put on a high dose of Pred which my Rheumatologist suggested I reduced eventually to 7.5mg. I eventually achieved this in 2012. For several years I felt comfortable, but was never encouraged by my GP to reduce futher, in fact I didn't see a Rheumatologist from 2009 until May 2015. Sadly in 2012 I was admitted to hospital with Sepsis which caused my kidneys to go to sleep, then cellulitis, and AF. During my stay in hospital my Pred was monitored by the Consultants and two months later I was discharged home on 10mg of Pred. In 2013 I became ill with shingles so was put back onto 25mg of Pred to control the severe pain I was told to reduce by 5mg over 4 days, then 5mg fo 4 days then reduce back to 7.5 mg. It was difficult as I was still feeling unwell. My doctor then suggested I take 10mg until I felt comfortable. During 2014 I suffered two set-backs with respiratory infections so once again my Pred was increased and it became a yo-yo situation until the infection was under control. In January 2015 I had anothe flare up this time I was diagnosed with trauchanteric bursitis in my left hip and leg, in fact the pain in my groin was absolute agony. My GP was concerned and I was admitted to hospital. On discharge I was back on 25mg Pred for a week to reduce back to 7.5mg in a further 10 days. Again I was in great discomfort and beginning to despair, even questioning if I would ever lead a comfortable life ever again but I continued on 7.5mg but In May 2015 I had another nasty flare up so again my Pred was increased back to 25mg. It's now July, and I'm now taking 7.5mg. I've been in discomfort and pain in my right shoulder, also pain and swelling in my left knee for weeks and I'm at a loss as to what to do to control this painful situation. My feeling is that my body is confused with having so many health problems to deal with and that yo-yoing with Pred medication has definitely not helped. I question whether I should increase my Pred and use the reduction chart to monitor how I feel and hopefully progress during the forthcoming weeks and months. I would welcome your comments.

Kindest regards.....

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PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to Hidden

I'd have thought that corticosteroid injections would be a far better way of dealing with things like bursitis - the effect is local and you use far less than if you increase the oral pred which doesn't reach joints, bursae and tendons well as their blood supply is poor. I had a fairly aggressive therapy using iv pred, pain killers and diazepam - it worked a miracle but unfortunately I had a very rare but known reaction to the iv diazepam so it had to be abandoned and the much slower traditional way was resorted to which included cortisone injections amongst other things. I'm not in the USA or UK though which does make a difference.

And I'm going to suggest you try to find a Bowen therapist - it may help, if it does you will know within 3 sessions and if it doesn't you just stop. Your traditional medicine management really doesn't seem exemplary - adding in a bit of the alternative stuff may ease some of the pain which would allow management with a bit less oral pred. There are a lot of people on this forum who have tried it in PMR and it has provided some relief - often dramatic.

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Hidden
Hidden

Thank you for your comments and advice. It's so reassuring to be able to discuss problems with PMR/GCA with people who understand the condition and the pain and discomfort it brings. I am going to try and find a Bowen therapist in my area

and as you say, if after several sessions it doesn't bring relief then you stop. In the

meantime I'll continue to take 7.5mg of Pred and use the slowly slowly method of

reduction over the next months.....I could be onto a winner!

Regards,

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Lainie44

Thanks so much for that post!

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Adnamaxx

This is very helpful thanks. Could you email me word document please to amanda.lee@intu.co.uk

1 like
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PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to Adnamaxx

I'm sorry, no I can't do it at present as it is on an old computer which isn't easy to get at - the original post was put up a long time ago.

However, you can get a copy of it and a second similar reduction plan from

pmr-gca-northeast.org.uk

I presume you do it using the Contact Us button to send an enquiry.

You can also copy and paste it into a word document yourself.

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Gosingen

Thank you so much for this link.... very interesting and useful info. I will copy and paste this to my medical file.

:-)

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Gypsylass

Copied and pasted many thanks.

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Edtx

Thanks

Any experience with methotrexate for PMR

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PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to Edtx

You would be much better starting a new thread - this is over a year old and only people who are following it would see it - by no means everyone.

There is no real evidence that mtx helps reduce pred dose for the majority of patients - if it worked for PMR they would use it, They don't. It MAY change the way your body metabolises pred and allow a lower dose to have the same effect but even that is subject to dispute. My own personal opinion is that it works for the people who don't just have PMR or who have been misdiagnosed as having PMR when in fact it is an inflammatory arthritis where it does work.

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caterpillar
caterpillar
in reply to PMRpro

i was taking Methotrexate for 2 years, as my rheumy refused to diagnose me with Polly, it made absolutely no difference to my pain...

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Tag101

Thank you so much for posting this - really appreciate it! I'm definitely going to try it this way. Fingers crossed it'll work for me too!

Tag

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tinwoman

Can't tell you how grateful i am to find this method of reduction as I've given into to pressure from doc to quickly reduce then have flare up and feel really unwell resulting in pred needing to be increased agian. Its been like a rollercoaster. thank you

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PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to tinwoman

Good luck! Do put up a post if you have any questions.

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Telian

I was just being diagnosed when you first posted this - I only came onto the site last year and wish I'd seen it back then as I could never reduce without withdrawal symptoms. Once that was realised Prof D gave me a reduction plan very much like yours and it works much better. I've never got below 3mg pred for other reasons but seeing this has given me new hope when the time is right. Prof D says I can take as much time as I like but he says it's okay to stay on the 3mg for now..

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PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to Telian

Interesting - we knew he'd started suggesting to patients to spread a 1mg drop over a few days repeating pattern - and it was after this was being broadcast on the forums so I was quite amused.

There seems to be this assumption by doctors that everyone can reduce longterm pred just like shortterm courses - but for some people it just doesn't work. And of course once you are expecting to feel unwell it increases the likelhood you will. But for me the biggest advantage in this is that you are so far less likely to have withdrawal effects - which all too often are mistaken as flares. I'm sure that's why we have so few flares when people use it.

If I could get to 3mg I'd stop trying I think...

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Telian

Well I have, I've been on 3mg for 17months and just increased to 5mg following colonoscopy last week where, for the first time (had three in three years), they didn't give me a top-up of pred prior to procedure saying I didn't need anything on such a low dose - how wrong were they, I did have a flare the following day which responded instantly to the small increase... have reduced by one today and am still okay on 4mg...

I used to worry about getting lower, as I didn't have this site until last year, but once listening to you and DL I realised I needn't so I don't.....

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PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to Telian

Er - it is on such a low dose you are most likely to need it!

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Telian

Following on symptoms have returned today woke me early with body stiffness, pain in shoulders and neck, jaw ache etc, I've upped back the one to 5mgs what do you think is it withdrawals or do I need the extra? I've always suffered withdrawals..

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PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to Telian

Going down 1mg at a time is a lot at this level. It sounds to me as if you need that extra at present. These really are such low doses I wouldn't be worrying about waiting a month or so to try the reduction again. But only you can recognise if it feels like withdrawal.

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Telian

Today I am not so good and it could be withdrawals but don't know as symptoms are the same as a flare - need to get bloods done and I have an appt with Prof D on the 20th so might stay as is until then. At least helps me relax speaking to you, many thanks for that.

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PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to Telian

Stick - no point rushing at this stage...

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Telian

I will, thanks for your help PMRpro.

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arvine

hello PMRpro, i must be missing something in your explanation of the dead slow tapering method, for example, as i read down the list, ie one day new dose, 4 days old dose, that,s 5 days out of week, what happens with other 2 days, or another example, one day new dose 3 days old dose, that,s 4 days, what happens for other 3 days? sorry, i am not understanding, my instructions from my rheumy were as follows, one day new dose, 6 days old dose, then 2 days new dose, 5 days old dose, then 3 days new dose 4 days old dose, and so on, until you have reached the week where you are taking new dose daily, sorry, i just don,t understand how the list you did works, missing days?

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PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to arvine

It has nothing to do with a weekly pattern, it is continuous over a period of about a month or more. You don't "miss" days - that would cause trouble..

It is much like your doctor's approach BUT from the other direction. You don't have two consecutive days of the new dose for much longer than with your doctor's approach. Which I'd say is where you struggle.

Take a monthly calendar and two different coloured markers. Start on the first of the month. Colour the box for the 1st in the colour you want use for days of new dose. Then colour the next 5 days (or wherever you want to start on the pattern) with the colour for the old dose. Then colour one day for the new dose. Colour 4 days for old dose. Continue with a single day for new dose and always one less day for old dose until you get to alternate days old and new.

Then do the opposite to increase the number of days of new dose. Often by the time you get to that stage your body has got used to the new lower dose and you only need to get to 2 or 3 consecutive days of the new lower dose to feel you could now just go straight to every day new lower dose.

If you are still inside the current month you could stick at the new dose until the first of the month and start over again if it makes it easier. Or you can just start the pattern again irrespective of the date.

Does that make it more clear?

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arvine

yes,, think i finally got it, although it is not the way my rheumy suggested, but I am going to talk to her about it, if i can get down to 7 for a month, without too much discomfort, i am going to try your method to get down to 6, i don,t know if it,s stress, anxiety, or what that i have a bad night, not sleeping, and next day feeling crappy, or because i am reducing, seems when i am fairly active with grandkids one day, don,t sleep as well, and next day not very energetic, anyway, thanks for clarifiying all that up for me,

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Noosat

Thanks for this ! It makes so much sense to me on examining my responses to trying to taper on my own ideas

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Nurse-162

Thanks so much for this schedule....cerently worth trying. Sounds like it has a lot of merit!

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Gary1310

Thank You🌹

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nemesisz

Firstly Im wanna sorry as English is not my main language. I just wanna share my experience with you guys especially the new one who are struglling to stop using pred. So my story with pred start plus minus on the month of October 2017. I was diagnose with skin condition that is phompolyx. Long story short, I was given a dosage of 6 tablet (5mg each) per day to stop it. I was suppose to be taken it for 1 week and thats it. After 1 week, I was happy. My skin calm down, all going well. Then the worst thing happen. Entering the third week, I got a flare up. My body start loving pred. Doctor then prescribe me with the same dosage and ask me to temper it. One day 6 and continue reducing it in a week. But still after that, the flare come. I was so sad and wanna give up after about 4 month trying using the doctor technique of fast tempering. It's like a loop. Always the same result and never successful.

2018 came and I make a decission to try other way. I was tempering but a bit slow but still faster compare to this technique. It was working at first but I can't take below 4 tablet or my flare will come. So I start accepting my fate, maybe I will be on pred my whole life. Then, I stumble upon this technique. After reading, I see that this technique are almost the same with mine but slower. Way-way slower. This is on Mac 2018 when I discover this. So with nothing to lose, I start using this technique. Using excel to track my intake, I make a plan. I follow this technique until now, July 2019 and I'm happy to say I was down to 1.5 tablet. A number that I was just dreaming about a year ago. If I follow this plan, I will be down to 0 tablet maybe in the early of 2020. I know its look like a long time, years upon years. But believe me, it is worth a try. I got no flare or rebounce using this technique. For whoever out there who are struggling with this problem, I suggest give this a try. Don't gave up hope yet. When I am down to 0 tablet hopefully next year, I will update you guys. Thank you to PMRpro for writing this. It help me a lot.

P.S: When you do this, make sure to follow it intensely and dont miss a day. I have miss some because I forgot and trust me, it will start to show flare symptom a bit. The more you miss, the worst it get. So dont miss it.

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Mimma

This is so helpful thank you. I am at 8 mg at the moment and will take your advice as I try to drop to 7 mg

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Campaigner

Many thanks, brilliant post which I shall definitely adopt.

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Lakesider

Can I print this out? It looks very good. I’m having trouble getting below 12 mg pred

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Poopadoops
PoopadoopsModerator
in reply to Lakesider

Yes. It is much easier if you have an example in from of you. I then used a calender to keep track.

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PMRpro
PMRproModerator
in reply to Lakesider

Absolutely - that's why it's here.

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Lakesider

Thank you. I’ll try it when I try to reduce again

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