ITCH and Bruising

I have scratched myself so much and so hard I have severe bruising on my legs, is this normal?

[Hidden]

Yes I think you can cause bruising on the skin by digging hard when scratching due to the itch.

I have on the odd occasion managed to make a small bruise on my thigh as I think that is where bruises tend to show up more due the thigh seemingly that bit more with fat/tissue. I know why I cause the odd one at times, I sometimes pinch when I itch as opposed to scratch.

How long does your bruise take to vanish by the way? I banged my thigh on the corner of a bedding box couple days ago and already it is starting to get smaller and starting to fade more. I did find out that the yellow in bruising is due to bile but I notice that since being diagnosed with PBC I don't actually see much in the way of the yellow from a fading bruise. Reckon that is from PBC.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Hi Peridot,

My thighs are both black and blue , my right one is bad at front and the left it is the back but not just small , the bruising run then length of my thigh. The right one appeared on Saturday night and has got worse and the left appeared this morning..

regards

Angel x

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Hello angel74.

Can you remember how your last LFTs were at all.

I'm sure you've more than likely caused it by being a bit too brutal with the itch but I know how bad that can be at times myself. I have several small round scars on my legs below my knees due to the itch and with PBC now they do ot seem to fade the same as they used to do.

If your bloods are panning out ok currently then I can't think of anything else but your doctor would probably fill you in here more.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

hi,

i havent had my results from last blood test, the previous one was 843 or 834... i am on urso but only taking half the dose just now as i was having problems taking it .

thanks

angel

[exy21 in reply to Hidden]

I itch and end up with bruises like you and they take forever to go.

[Hidden in reply to exy21]

hi Exy21,

I know exactly what you mean, ,I still have mine and that's a week no. been really unwell this week do not sure if that has not helped. wish you the best x

[Hidden]

Hello again!

Back in Aug 2010 prior to seeing the hospital consultant 2 of my bloods were the ALP at 603 and the Gamma GT (GGT) was 642. Interestingly my GGT had naturally started to come down and was 590 by Nov 10th, the day I had bloods taken at the first hospital appt as I wasn't on urso until Dec 2010 when diagnosed with PBC.

After starting on urso Dec 2010 and having a blood recheck 14 Feb 2011 my GGT was 232 and my ALP 301. By May 2011 my GGT was 176 and ALP 278. My last blood results May this year showed the ALP at 280 and the GGT at 171, that was 2 and half years on urso. Due for a recheck of bloods in a few weeks.

Not sure if this helps but if you have had a good LFT results since starting urso I'd try to continue taking it as prescribed if at all possible.

I was sceptical at the beginning due to the fact urso isn't a cure and there are no guarantees.

But it could well be your overall health will greatly improve with passing time on urso.

PS I have no idea what is known as a really bad result of the ALP, GGT and ALT in particular in PBC. It is said that the bilirubin is a good marker in PBC also. I only glance at my blood results these days, don't really scrutinise although I do notice if there has been a very slight climb from the previous one or a drop in another but I just go with how I feel.

[cavi]

Hi angel74 sorry to hear about your bad Itching but I know exactly what you mean my skin is in such a mess scratch marks bruising bleeding sore's you name it I am so wore out with it every day is the same I have been having Questran light but not helping much tried every itch cream but again not much help my LFT are coming down and my Bilirubin is normal I take 1000 mg Urso a day so I just don't know what's next it's torture i see my Consultant Jan but he is always there to help on the phone if i need him in between appointments but i think the Itch is something they just haven't found out how to get rid of it yet and unless you have got the itch no one will ever know what its like to have to live with it in fact itch is a massive under statement to call it Take Care

[littlemo in reply to cavi]

Hi again Cavi sorry to hear you are still suffering badly. I notice you say you are on 1000mgs of Urso I know when I was put on that dose my itch got a lot worse maybe discuss this with your consultant at your next apt. Also ask about other meds that you can be tried on to help the itch. Best of luck you have my total sympathy. I still have the itch but not to the degree I used to have it and the Questran Light does help my itch during the day at least. That and drinking plenty of water, not taking too much caffeine, sugar or spicy or fatty foods and trying to avoid infections (I take high dose Vit C in the winter) and try to keep stress levels down (not always possible I know). Keep in touch here this site is good for moral support and sound advice from people who are living with this disease day and daily. x

[Hidden in reply to cavi]

I think I'd prefer myself if something was discovered to rid our system of the PBC as in eradicating the AMAs that our system makes as opposed to something for the itch as we would still have the PBC otherwise.

I can't help wondering if the itch is some sort of protection for the ones who do suffer in PBC with it. It is thought that it is bile salts from used bile and I say to feel the itch they must react with the nerve endings throughout the body as they travel through the bloodstream.

I reckon these salts are coming out via the skin pores to maybe aid us and in thinking that way for me as awful as it is some nights, I think it might just be an irritating plus.

As daft as it sounds, being in warm temperatures or hot baths can make us feel that bit worse with the itch (well it does for me) but perhaps it is a case the pores in our skin are opening for these bile salts to expel themselves.

If I could perhaps give the itch to doctors for a few hours then they would definitely understand just what it is like and maybe take more notice. I saw my GP last week with regards to a repeat prescription quantity he was questioning Sept and he doesn't have a clue about PBC. He couldn't seem to understand when I said I find it difficult to sit about nearly all the time as within a space of time I start feeling prickles of the itch. It does seem for me to be the case that when I am trying to relax or I am pretty much at a standstill (I wasn't comfortable sat in a surgery Waiting Room last week for half hr., started fidgeting) then that's when I can start feeling the itch.

I know for me and not sure about others but I'm perfectly ok when I rise at morning and until mid-afternoon by which time due to having breakfast and then lunch and the odd snack in-between, I can start feeling the crescendo of the itch coming on mildly and slowly but it is usually around 9p.m. every day I feel the intenseness start to build as by 11p.m. I do know I have the itch.

[Hidden in reply to cavi]

thanks Cabin, sorry to hear you are do bad with out. yes nobody knows what its like unless they suffer from it . it can bring me to tears xx

[June9961]

Hi, My late sister scratched so much, and her skin was in such a mess that photos were put in the Lancet. This was also the reason she was given a transplant. She said that as soon as she was given her new liver the itch had disappeared. In comparison to her I have minimal itch thank goodness but I also have the body pains.

[Hidden in reply to June9961]

thanks...... I go through stages when it is very bad . I also have the body pains. at moment both are bad .

[Hidden in reply to June9961]

Hello June 9961.

Yes I can comprehend that after a liver transplant the itch would vanish due to the bile ducts being fully intact as there would be no PBC present there although we will always have the PBC in the system dormant or not.

Glad your sister seems to be doing well.

I too have the itch usually at night and some nights it is uncomfortably irritating, others not so bad. I find the nights if I wake and cannot return to sleep that is when it starts up again, I reckon due to in the awake state the system starting to crank into gear again.

I've no real aches and pains joint wise at present, suppose only time shall tell. I've not yet gone through the menopause and I don't reach 50 until next year.

[Lexi_Img]

I have itched so bad on my leg that I got an infection and needed an antibiotic. I get purple and red marks on my arms from the scratching. My doctor said to be careful because my skin is thin. So be careful...I know it is not easy.

Lexi-ing

[Hidden]

hi Lexi-ing,

thanks,

easy for doctor to say but not advice easy to follow.. everyone I know says"don't scratch".. if only that simple cx

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Yes true, easy for a doctor or someone else to say try not to scratch when you itch but as we all know who do itch, it does feel good having that 'good scratch' when you have the itch but it doesn't actually relieve it and for me when I am itching one place, it suddenly stops there and start some place else and then back again. All I can think is that when we scratch or rub I expect we are somehow putting pressure on the veins and causing that bit of relieve.

I find that my toes always seem to be the ones that are inflicted during the night when my feet are hot and also the pressure points where lying down, ie the buttocks area. All I can think is that the blood flow has been interrupted and that is why the itch is a bit more aggressive there.

I also have noticed that I can feel ok sitting close to my husband during the day but come evening, I find I can feel his clothing and also hairs on his arms if they touch my skin and that then starts it feeling irritated and itchy. Must be more sensitive towards the end of the day. Anyone else feel like this?

[Shirleybutler]

Ask your doctor for Questran it helps stop the itching

[Hidden in reply to Shirleybutler]

hi Shirley, I have questran x

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

I've not taken anything as yet for the itch. I have tried allsorts to see what could relieve it. Days when I have a very mild bout of the itch without any problem sleeping I cannot figure out what I did differently, ate differently, etc. I have found one thing out, if I eat after 7p.m. at night I tend to find the itch hasn't vanished around 5a.m. like it normally does but I put that down to the fact that food apparently takes around 8hrs to digest so if perhaps figures that there is still used bile travelling back up the bloodstream and it is this that causes the itch.

I have read that Questran can help some eradicate the itch but for others it doesn't, appears hit and miss there. There are other meds you can try though.

[Shirleybutler in reply to Hidden]

Are you on Urso 2 twice daily. The itching has come back for me my doctor has given a large tub of cream which I use daily after showering you could always request some I had really bad bloody sheets the lot but cream and Questran helped a lot.Its good to correspond with others who have the condition

[Hidden in reply to Shirleybutler]

Hello Shirleybutler. I think you might be asking me if I am taking urso twice daily? I take 600mgs, used to be 2 x 300mg tablets daily but since 300mg recall July, I not have to take 4 x 150mgs per day but take 2 at breakfast, 2 at teatime.

As yet I've never had more than the odd tiny blood spot due to the itch. The itch can't be as bad as it was back in 2010 and early 2011 as my husband said back then that I moved about in sleep all night when I did sleep. That would be due to the itch but these days I don't, the itch has improved over time but that could perhaps be the fact my system has improved in itself due to taking the urso and not necessarily the urso, if that makes sense.

I buy Aqueous Cream BP from a store near town here in Lancashire where I live and it costs just £1. It is far cheaper and unbranded (think by a company called Kingsley) than the E45 that seems to be very expensive.

Actually I have found using this on my legs in particular is of no use at all.

I have tried Epsom Salts in the bath (that can make the skin feel drier and don't know if there is anything in it as in drawing out toxins from the system. Know it is used in the bath for muscle aches), also used honey and vinegar (can't say there's bee a difference but both are reputed to have antibacterial and anti-fungal properties so you never know) but I think I do prefer using a very mild practically natural (no parabens for a start) baby bath myself. Just use a small amount and I don't seem to have a problem. Noticed the skin on my legs in particular isn't that dry to be honest.

I do think with the skin the diet plays an important part in it all too. They say that hair can feel soft and silky if you are adequately nourished. Have to say that my hair isn't dry and it looks in pretty good condition. I rarely use a hairdryer and do not use any heated appliances on it nor have I ever had a perm. I use the odd hair colourant but do not overdo that either.

I want to try to refrain from getting a prescription from the GP. I would like to try to remain as chemical free as I possibly can now I have PBC. There are no guarantees regardless but I think it is worth a try.

[Hidden in reply to Shirleybutler]

hi Shirley,

yes I am suppose to be on Urso twice a day but only taking it once just now. got a cream from doctor thanks will give it a go.. x

[Hidden]

I have found that using Aquous cream with menthol helps with the itch although it doesn't get rid of it completely.

[Hidden]

Not so long ago I found I had a bit of bottom backache for a few days. Woke up one morning and kept feeling it when I was bending down, etc.

My husband has some Tiger Balm in, the white one and he rubbed a bit on the bottom of my spine at bedtime. I think with it having menthol in it, the coolness that came about with the balm probably acted as a distraction from the itch as I did go to sleep without having an itch problem that night.

I know the year (2010) I was diagnosed with PBC I did go through odd periods of where I felt right shoulder ache. I wasn't sure if it was due to PBC or if a manual domestic job as I thought I'd injured it during 2009 when it lasted for around a week. After diagnose of PBC I found that I could no longer stand the Tiger Balm that you can get in red. Think there is cinnamon in that one.

I've not actually suffered with the right shoulder ache much over the last 12mths so whether it was due to PBC or perhaps I did injure it sometime 2009 and as I no longer do that job I was in at the time, it could have been that, I don't know.

[bchiusano]

Hi All...my mom was diagnosed in 1994 with PBC. She has suffered with the itch for most of the past two decades. Here are some tips I know that works (sometimes intermittently) for her:

UV Rays: Get in the HOT sun (Think Mexico, Equador, anything by the equator)...The real sun, apparently tanning beds do not work.

Eliminate Carbs: As my mom cut down on carbohydrates, her itching reduced.

Zoloft: This had an off-label effect (for while) of relieving her itching (and I've been reading articles that Gabapentin may do the same...)

Chemical Peels: My mom is very good with pain, so she opted to do painful chemical peels (normally reserved for vain individuals) on her face & back. This usually provided temporary relief up to a year.