Article states b2 deficiency the cause of functional b12 deficiency

[B12life]

what do you all think about this article which states serum b12 can be falsely elevated if there is a b2 deficiency which causes inactive cobalomine to result in elevated serum b12

iomcworld.org/articles/para...

[Wwwdot]

Hi B12life

I read the same somewhere else or heard it and can’t recall where.

It might have been in a Dr David Morris video which I posted recently … pretty sure now it was.

It makes sense doesn’t it ?

🤗🤗🤗

[B12life in reply to Wwwdot]

yes. I'll have to dig up that video! Thanks!

[PlatypusProfit8077]

nice to see some Australian literature on B12!

[Technoid]

From a metabolic perspective, it is correct that a B2 deficiency would disrupt B12 metabolism. The question is of relevance since outright deficiencies in B2 are rarely observed outside of starvation or extreme malnutrition situations.

[B12life in reply to Technoid]

well i'm wondering if high dosing b1 or other supplements can deplete b2; take for example b1 depletes magnesium if magnisum isn't supplemented to an appropriate amount.

Also, who is to say that b2 deficiency isn't happening for the same reason my b1 and 12 are low.

[Technoid in reply to B12life]

How do you know your B1 is/was low?

[B12life in reply to Technoid]

B1 tests are inaccurate as far as I have read, thus via clinical results. I had results in 3 days.

It's harmless as long as the protocol is followed for supplementing with cofactors, which I failed to follow. Lesson learned.

But for some reason I had forgotten or never come across this article about B2 also being a factor in not being able to absorb b12, the focus was always on folate which I have never been low on and thus do not supplement with.

I'm always open to your opinion Technoid and highly respect it. Cheers!

[Technoid in reply to B12life]

"B1 tests are inaccurate as far as I have read"

Yes, many of them are unfortunately. There is a reliable method though:

"-Liquid chromatography tandem mass spectrometry analysis of TDP in whole blood is the most sensitive, specific, and precise method for determining the nutritional status of thiamine and is a reliable indicator of total body stores."

mayocliniclabs.com/test-cat...

I could be wrong but I'm not sure you'll get that on the NHS, or whether private testing will offer it.

My point being that unless you had B1 testing with this kind of (accurate) test, you don't really know whether you were/are low on B1 or not. It's virtually impossible to discount placebo when trialling a supplement that you suspect might help you. What clinical results did you see after supplementing B1?

I seemed to feel better when I started to take Taurine but then again, it might just be placebo, there's no way for me to tell.

Appreciate the kind words 😄

[B12life in reply to Technoid]

Oh. and I will get the b2 tested soon to confirm.

[WIZARD6787 in reply to B12life]

There you go again with the thinking thing. 🙂 Did you not get the memo that says all can be known if you just believe in a reliable source and quote it?🙂

[WIZARD6787 in reply to Technoid]

B2 deficiency is rarely tested in conformance with current dogma. Hence the incidence is unknown.

It is assumed that the B2 sprayed on fortified foods in many countries is sufficient for optimum health due to it reducing the severe cases of B2 deficiency 50% in countries where the food is not sprayed.

[Cherylclaire Forum Support in reply to Technoid]

Yes: B2 deficiency rare.

Gregory Russell-Jones wrote a very similar article: "Functional Vitamin B12 Deficiency in Autism" in 2022. Noticed the reference to functional B12 deficiency appearing to be related to the B2 (Riboflavin) - attributed to insufficient dietary Iodine, Selenium, and/or Molybdenum. In this study, 600 children and adults with a diagnosis of ASD (autism spectrum disorder) all had a deficiency of functional B2 deficiency and functional B12 deficiency.

ALL of them.

.... Is this likely ?

I do not know of anyone who has had Iodine, Selenium or Molybdenum tested - or Riboflavin for that matter.

If this is possible in the UK, has anyone had these tests from a reliable source ?

[Susanemily]

I believe it's possible and it happens to me?

[WIZARD6787 in reply to Susanemily]

Good on you!

[Littledancingtiger]

This is Greg Russell Jones theory from B12 Oils. He has a “protocol” for fixing B2 which involves taking iodine, selenium and molybdenum in high enough doses to “fix” and stabilise the thyroid first (he uses thyroid testing and hair mineral analysis) then B2, then B12 and folate etc. (he uses organic acid testing) some seem to make great gains, some don’t, some chase at it for years and some do really well and then crash hard as they induce other deficiencies.

From what I can gather no one ever really seems to become replete in B2 according to the organic acid testing that they use so something must be missing…. People are normally just told it takes years. B2 is excreted rapidly though so I question its use in organic acid testing but I don’t know enough about it all…. Verdict is out on that one.

Anecdotally I believe I gave myself a B2 deficiency by taking very high doses of methylfolate without other B’s as I had all the deficiency symptoms of it and corrected it by stopping doing that!

[WIZARD6787 in reply to Littledancingtiger]

Good on you for discovering the way to correct. Hard work that! I do not worry about anecdotal evidence maybe being wrong. Fact is that B12 injections are beneficial for so many people is anecdotal and still in dispute by the common understanding.

[Carrie234 in reply to Littledancingtiger]

When you say they induce other deficiencies, what is that in? Which B vitamins, or what other nutrients?

[Littledancingtiger in reply to Carrie234]

It seems to vary but minerals and vitamins besides what are on protocol. A lot mention low copper.

[Carrie234 in reply to Littledancingtiger]

Thank you. I have heard that molybdenum can induce low copper.

[B12life in reply to Carrie234]

this might very well be true. I usually confirm these things with medical journals from National Institute for Health or other reliable sources.

[tomdickharry in reply to Carrie234]

In the UK at least I would think copper deficiency would be most unusual as domestic piping is copper. I use a water filter but copper removal is not on the list of ions filtered out.

[helvella in reply to tomdickharry]

A lot of recent domestic water pipe is plastic.

And even copper pipe has an inner coating (at least, when new). Further, in many areas the water deposits at least a small amount of scale which reduces the amount of copper that can be picked up. (In other areas, acidic water can attack copper pipes quite aggressively.)

And flowing water picks up little copper but this increases when water is left standing in pipes or copper containers.

[tomdickharry in reply to helvella]

Yes, that was just meant as a general observation. There are so many variables, including acidity of the water, fluoride content, etc., too many to list. Plastic piping carries its own potential for leaching.

The facts remain, though. Most domestic internal piping is still copper, and how many people let the water run for a couple of minutes before collecting it? People are either conscious of 'waste' or mindful of the meter, so fill the kettle as soon as they turn on the tap.

.....and how many plumbers use lead-free solder?

[B12life in reply to Carrie234]

other deficiencies being induced only applies to high dosing b1. I have not had b12 induce any deficiencies.

However, b1 requires other vitamines to metabolize and when high dosing b1, there are other vitamines that must be supplemented.

you can find the youtube videos from eonutrition. He seems to follow a very scientific approach that was originated by a Phd MD at clevland clinic on b1 deficiency.

I bought his document on the protocol but thought I could get away with skipping some things because I was only doing a lower b1 dose. so it's on me entirely. Again, the article I posted above was mainly to point out that a b2 deficiency can cause a serum b12 to be falsely elevated. it wasn't to get people concerned about high dosing b1. However, I'm happy to provide information. I also don't want to scare people about b1. I think high dosing b1 is safe if done properly.

I have a history of diabetes and thus this is why I believe I have a reason to be b1 deficient and sure enough I got results from it but that doesn't mean everyone should go dosing b1. Diabetics dump b1.

Dosing with b1 should entirely a personal decision that should be well thought out by each individual.

eonutrition.co.uk/

amazon.com/Thiamine-Deficie...

[Carrie234 in reply to B12life]

many thanks. I have had experience with b1 causing some deficiencies but don't high dose b1 now. I am currently concentrating on taking b12 and folate - trying to be careful to avoid causing deficiencies but it's not simple for me as I don't tolerate b complex. I think Elliot Overton got his information from the authority on high dose b1, Derrick Lonsdale.

[Littledancingtiger in reply to B12life]

I spoke to Elliot in 2019 before he became the B1 guru he was mostly just starting out then. Most of his B1 stuff does come from Lonsdale.

Lonsdale was very active in the metronidazole Facebook group and anyone interested will find many of his comments there. Metronidazole is particularly nasty for causing B1 deficiency.

I gave myself a B1 deficiency from metronidazole and a gluten free diet. Nasty stuff.

Greg Russell Jones states you need B2 for B1 so differs to what other researchers say. He isn’t a fan of mega dosing either. 10mg B2 (split throughout the day) and half that for B1 was the recommendation. He suggests B2 always be supplemented in higher amounts than B1.

[qwertystar in reply to Littledancingtiger]

I believe this is what’s happened to me. I was taking very high doses of methylfolate.

Did everything correct its self when you stopped the b12?

[Littledancingtiger in reply to qwertystar]

I dropped B12 back for some time and dropped folate for some time and things did even back out.

[qwertystar in reply to Littledancingtiger]

Thank you.

[Carrie234 in reply to qwertystar]

Were you taking any b complex or other b vitamins with the folate, and what deficiencies did you get from the high dose folate qwertystar? I'm interested because I'm starting to take folate myself.

[qwertystar in reply to Carrie234]

I’m low on b6 and b2. I was taking a b complex so I don’t know how that happened

[Carrie234 in reply to qwertystar]

Thank you - how do you know you are low on b6 and b2, is there a test you can take for them?

[qwertystar in reply to Carrie234]

I had a private blood test which showed the deficiencies

[Carrie234 in reply to qwertystar]

What test was it qwertystar? I'm quite interested in measuring my nutrients beyond b12/folate, as I think I might have some imbalances.

[Bacca]

Interesting article.

I have Hashimitos, looked at my DNA and found FUT -affects B12 levels in serum, MTRR - B12 issue. I have markers for PA too, which has just been picked up, autoimmune gastritis.

I did an orgânic test recently which showed, v low b12, low B2 & low B6.

It all seems to tie in together, for me.

[Litatamon in reply to Bacca]

Can you list the gene sequences (I know that is probably not the word!) for searching my DNA/raw data for these two items please, thank you in advance.

[B12life in reply to Bacca]

Thanks for the reply. Dido on Litamon's request. I'm interested in the genes tested as well

[MindfulSquirrel]

Interesting… I coincidentally started taking 400mg B2 on neurologist advice (migraines) around the time I started EOD B12 injections. My B12 serum was high normal (elevated MMA though) so even though that was probably in part to do with the oral B12 supplements I was taking, I wonder if the B2 played a role in this. Would be interested in how COVID impacts all this further.