Hi all. Just thought I’d pop in and ask my new friends if they know of any reason NAC shouldn’t be taken with iron tablets or B12, or whether NAC could actually have a negative effect on ferritin/B12 levels. Can’t find any info on this, so here I am 😊
I am awaiting latest blood results, so don’t know whether it’s ferritin or B12 deficiency I’m dealing with. I’m considering taking NAC for a problem unrelated to deficiency but wanted to ask here before I start.
I hope this helps to answer your question........
Can you take NAC with iron supplements?
Also, avoid supplements like N-Acetyl Cysteine (NAC). Cysteine, which can help support glutathione (also known as the “master antioxidant”), can cause things to backfire and accelerates free radical production if excess iron is present. 🤔
Thank you, Jillymo. This is helpful. Waiting for blood results on iron, but I suspect there’s a low level of iron rather than too much. On a break from iron while being tested, but that info is a bit worrying 😳
I think that claim about NAC is from this website:
"connectedhealthcaresystems....
The claim is not referenced but from what I've seen, there is no evidence that taking NAC would increase free radical production, if anything the opposite may be the case.
"experimental studies show that NAC through its free thiol can also bind to active redox metal ions, such as the ones from transition metals, copper (Cu2+) and iron (Fe3+), and heavy metals, cadmium (Cd2+), mercury (Hg2+), and lead (Pb2+), forming complexes that are easily excreted by the body [34]. Although NAC is able to reduce levels of metal ions in cases of toxicity [45], clinical studies that evaluate its chelating properties are limited. It is still unclear whether NAC potentially acts as a chelator or whether the benefits found are predominantly related to its action as an indirect antioxidant via an increase in the intracellular tripeptide containing cysteine (l-γ-glutamyl–l-cysteinyl–glycine), better known as glutathione (GSH) "
from mdpi.com/2076-3921/10/6/967
In fact there was a research thesis in collaboration with B12 institute that investigated how best to alleviate some of the symptoms of early treatment decline in early B12 deficiency treatment and they came to the conclusion that (among other supplements), a combination of NAC and Glycine could be useful to support Glutathione production especially when there is heavy damage being repaired as can happen in serious B12 deficiency cases.
It is early stage research and more trials are needed but both supplements are safe and unlikely to cause harm at reasonable supplemental doses.
There is a presentation from the B12 Rotterdam conference last year with some more details on their hypothesis:
pure.tudelft.nl/ws/portalfi...
If I was back in my first week of treatment again I would do 8 things differently (I keep expanding it lol)
(1) Upgrade my diet on day 1 and take only the few required extra supplements I need
(2) Glycine and NAC supplementation to support Glutathione
(3) Trimethylglycine supplementation to get homocysteine down faster
(4) No folic acid or folate or at most 400mcg folinic acid but only for a few weeks/months until my gut was behaving again since I was never folate deficient and my dietary intake is at the upper limit.
(5) Creatine 5g daily to support adenosylcobalamin production
(6) Sleep
(7) Join PASOC on HealthUnlocked
(8) Don't panic 🤣
Thanks very much for that, Technoid. So, looking at a lot of the info provided here, it looks okay to take the NAC along with glycine. As I said earlier, still not quite sure what I’m dealing with, whether ferritin or B12 deficiency, but in both cases, it seems it could actually help.
If you have a good registered dietician around, they would probably be a good person to ask if you need another opinion. Doctors don't get all that much in the way of a nutrition education.
If you have concerns about any interaction with iron, just take the Glycine/NAC more than 4 hours away from the iron supplementation.
Macro-B12 is mentioned in the presentation, this a very interesting area:
"immune complexes between serum immunoglobulins and B12-vitamin binding protein (macro-B12) may develop in some individuals, leading to highly elevated serum B12 concentrations"
...
"This formation of macro-B12 will lead to spuriously elevated serum B12 concentrations, often highly above the upper limit of reference of the assay. Due to the binding to immunoglobulins, this B12 is not metabolically active. "
Above text is from a case report published in 2022 from Bruce Wolffenbuttel et al. (one of the foremost experts on B12 deficiency)
casereports.bmj.com/content...
There is a section of the presentation on diet changes:
"Resolve the intestinal bacterial
dysbiosis
• Correct body acidity in order
to eliminate colon acidity
• Use Na‐citrate and K‐
citrate, check urine pH
• Diet: cut back on meat
• Diet: cut back on sugars"
----
It was not possible for me to cut back on meat because my intake is already zero 😜 but I did cut way back on added sugars.
I wonder if you can avise me ?
I have recently been diagnosed with Crohns ! I have been suffering with the most dreadful joint pain and cant help wonder if my high uric acid levels are the cause. I brought some capsules to try and lower the uric acid and also take magnesium and vit K2. Do you have any other advice to help me lower my levels ?
No doubt I will be seeing a dietician with regard to the crohns but everything is so long winded that I am doing what I can to help myself.
Hi Jillymo,
I have no training in the correct treatment of Crohns I'm afraid. With regard to lowering uric acid levels there are some ideas in this article:
Hi Jillymo,
I too have been diagnosed with moderate Crohn’s disease a few years after my pernicious anaemia diagnosis. My current Crohn’s status is close to remission thanks to an overhaul of my diet, PA treatment, healthy gut supporting supplements (via a naturopath) and eating an ancestral diet with lots of beef and healthy fats, certain grains and lots of vegetables. Have done many pathology tests to assess all the above changes and, to my surprise, they showed a dramatic and remarkable improvement. My Crohn’s medication has not changed throughout the above changes, (my Crohn’s medication is: PuriNethol and Pyralin 500ED) and my most recent colonoscopy showed a significant improvement in my colon. Some may assume that meat causes inflammation in the gut but, I have to disagree. Personal preferences to eating meat aside, (I don’t wish to cause a problem with vegans or vegetarians) meat and meat products ie, butter, dairy and good fats all help with healing the gut lining. A well balanced diet with vegetables are highly beneficial to our overall health. My gastroenterologist has asked me what I have changed since our last visit six months ago (oh and I’ve lost almost 10kg in weight also!!) as she commented that I look healthier. I’m scheduled for a gastroscopy on this coming Monday and hopefully, my stomach will show improvement with a healthier stomach lining.🤞🤞
I completely understand the turmoil of being diagnosed with Crohn’s does to you physically and mentally. I was an emotional wreck in those early days. The connection with PA and Crohn’s are intertwined and hence me taking the step to revolutionise my own body and health. Starting my journey almost two years ago self injecting methyl B12, dealing with my Crohn’s and taking control over my own health has led to significant improvements. (This PA forum has been the best decision I’ve made to invest more control over my health and life, and am very thankful every day reading everyone’s posts here, as it helps me think outside of the box!) The journey with Crohn’s may seem daunting and stressful but, please don’t give up, stay positive and making safe, healthy changes to your diet will be beneficial to you in the long run. I’m here for you if you ever need any support or questions in regards to Crohn’s disease. My big hugs to you.🤗🤗🙏🙏
Hi, I have had various scans, gastroscopy of which the pic's looked quite desturbing so I posted on site. A colonoscopy but as yet no treatment prescribed for the crohns. My gastro is debating whether to carry out a capsule swollow due to something seen on my scan they as yet havn't been able to identify ! Probably one of my daughter inlaws overdone parsnips jackknifed and now lodged no doubt. 😂
I am not worried about the diagnosis it has just added to my long list of autoimmune conditions. I am waiting a follow up with the gastro but everything is soooooo long winded.
Diet is dificult because I can no longer get to the shops so now buy off line. It is like a lottery as to what is sent which makes it dificult to plan anything. I also have a hiatus hernia, diverticular disease & errosive gastritis which complicates things further. Sites seem to condradict what or should not be eaten ! I find hard fats a problem and some vegies. Red meat is aparently a no no yet your able to eat it without a problem! I supose we are all different but I too have found no issues other than with lamb due to the fat it contains.
Kindly PM with typical things I can eat & the do's and donts.
Bless you. 💐
I too did the pill capsule camera test which confirmed some inflammation and a diagnosis of moderate crohn’s. I’m sorry to hear you’re house bound and all your symptoms/conditions you’re experiencing, it’s definitely challenging.
In my early Crohn’s journey I did a complete elimination diet to calm the gut and ease my symptoms, which wasn’t easy to do. Gradually various foods were introduced and I eventually found foods that I was comfortable eating. We are all different in what is comfortable to eat and I hope you have found what is best for you. I hope you feel better soon.🤗🤗
Maybe I should resort back to the elimination diet I did for candida..... water, boiled potatoes, lamb & carrots. I can assure you it was hard going because nothing else was aloud !
I will have to wait & see what the gasto decides.
It's all trial & error. 😘
are urine dipsticks an accurate measure of body acidity? I had a random urinalysis test at a lab (non-fasting, mid-day) and my PH was 5.5 but I have read not to base acidity on one random test. What would be the best way to determine if I am too acidic? I have to eat meat. I am pre-diabetic and suffer from severe reactive hypoglycemia if I don’t get enough protein. I am allergic to dairy and eggs.
Eica:
"I have to eat meat. I am pre-diabetic and suffer from severe reactive hypoglycemia if I don’t get enough protein. "
Yes, I'm biased but there are many decent plant sources of protein and plant-based protein powders are pretty easy to find if you want to bump your intake even higher. No need for meat, especially not for protein.
Not really sure on how to check colon acidity.
Hi Technoid. Thanks again. I already have NAC. Now I need to find glycine. Any advice on how much glycine to take with 600mg NAC? I know I need to get the balance right.
Technoid has provided you with some very good information. It will be interesting to see what further testing show's. It does seem you are dealing with some sort of anemia. If your your not sure about your results you can always pop them on here so that someone can explain to you. I hope you get some answer's as to whats going on soon.
Thanks, Jillymo. I was going to post them on here 😊 I know I’ll get much better answers here than from a GP. This problem has been going on for over a decade and I’ve got more advice here in a couple of weeks than from GPs over all those years.
I have the same opinion. 😂
I have seen numerous Drs and consultants, spent years on ruddy waiting lists getting nowhere !
The recent diagnosis of crohns might but dont hold your breath help me on my journey. What a trek it has been. 🤬
Thanks Technoid. I was unaware that TMG helps bring down homocysteine. My injections have brought mine way down but still not quite in range. I was told before I started injections that TMG just might eliminate my need for B12 supplementation but I highly doubt that. I do think what you said merits consideration.
Please, anyone, correct me if I am wrong, but doesn’t NAC detoxify? Wouldn’t it clear the B12 more quickly?
NAC does work as an anti-oxidant and anti-inflammatory but there's no reason it would act to clear B12 more quickly. As we know, B12 is not a toxin or toxic at any known dosage. As far as I'm aware even large amounts of B12 do not cause oxidation or inflammation.
If you exceed maximum binding capacity (possible with injections) the excess B12 has literally nowhere to go, so in that case the body would clear it regardless.
This is quite a loaded question, but something I have always wondered about. How does a supplement recognize toxins and/or inflammatory substances and only assist in eliminating them? Is there something about toxins' inflammatory characteristics that makes them suscepticle to elimination by the de-toxifier..as with NAC?
There's a lot to unpack in your question but I sense a fundamental influence from alternative health and medicine ideas about "detox" supplements.
The body is a fantastically complicated biological machine. There are many many systems which work to clear various toxins from the system or convert them into more benign form, such as the processing of alcohol.
B12 (in massive doses) can work to detoxify the body of cyanide but there are many other substances and processes that do detoxification, obviously the liver being a primary one.
There are many causes of inflammation and not all inflammation is bad - when you exercise this causes localized inflammation but this is a net positive as, if proper nutrition and rest occur, that inflammation causes a super-compensatory response which not just heals but strengthens the tissue so that it can handle more the next time it is challenged.
However, systemic, continuous inflammation is of course not a good thing and to be avoided. There are many causes and many ways to reduce.
Something that is toxic to the body does not necessarily have to cause inflammation to hurt you or kill you. Perhaps this is obvious but there are lethal poisons which will kill you in ways that do not cause any inflammation per se.
Antioxidant supplements are a similar issue - you want "enough" anti-oxidants but not super pharmacological doses - these seem to actually cause harm in clinical trials.
If anyone tries to sell you a "detox" supplement, do run as far away as possible as this is a good indicator they are trying to sell you snake oil.
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