The subject of sleep comes up regularly on this forum and, as yet, I'm not sure if I've heard of an effective remedy.
I'm curently waking up between 3-4am and am very awake, like ready to start the day. Some days I've just got up and done things but by 10am or so I feel broken and horrible.
I take a weekly injection of Hydroxocobalamin and several daily doses of methyl and adenosyl equating to about 9,000mcg per day.
Ive been doing this for a year and my symptoms are still improving. I'd be reluctant to stop this treatment but equally I am not getting enough sleep.
It's a catch 22 for us, isn't it?
Ive tried everything else to help: low lights, running in the morning, no stress, even HTP-5 melatonin supplements and CBD which haven't done alot.
Does anyone have any suggestions they could help me with? Would be much appreciated.
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Pickle500
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I’ve never been a great sleeper I always have two extremes,either totally wired and hyper in the wee hours or drained to the point of exhaustion but couldn’t even nod off.
I tried all the usual pharmaceuticals,herbals teas and such but believe it or not the one thing I found helped was a cracker with peanut butter on before bed,carb and protein. May be of no use to you at all but where’s the harm in trying it,best of luck xx
I find my sleep patterns are irregular but since I am retired I just have a nap when I feel tired. As long as I get about 8 hours sleep a day I don't worry how I get it.
yes were all different but its the media /health writers obsession with saying we need at least 8 hours that feeds anxiety when people dont get that amount.We need to assess just how much time we spend in bed and how much of that time is actually spent sleeping in order to find your optimum " sleep window "
I did a sleep restriction thing for a month or so and find I can manage on 7 hours after having awful insomnia for years.My husband however can sleep till the cows come home!
I think as my wife is a night owl and sleeps late, it's thrown my pattern out over the years. I'll admit we are one of those couples who sleep in separate rooms. I can't handle a 1am sleep time but that is how her body clock works.
I think so much is wrapped up in how we relax. And perhaps how wired our nervous systems are. Unfortunately, I've always had a very active system which seems to have broken what with all this B12 madness!
Unfortunately Im not retired so keeping an income means I have to stay awake in the day!I've concluded that my nervous system has been damaged. Its overactive at 3am - my heart beats fast and irregularly.
I have a meeting to discuss a potential FND diagnosis soon. Im hoping to get something out of that. Hopefully some kind of therapy.
I spent most of my life navigating chronic insomnia. B12 deficiency (with parietal cell antibodies) diagnosed a few months ago. After never wanting to take sleep medication (and trying every over the counter remedy or visualization exercise or sleep hygiene strategy)... I finally asked my doctor for meds.
Honestly... Not everyone wants or needs sleep meds. But I wish I hadn't waited so long. It's nice to sleep.
Tried gabapentin first, which worked but had uncommon side effects for me.
Now on Trazodone. I sleep 6 hours or more every night now. Ideally I'd get more hours than 6, but this is already twice the sleep I used to get.
I know how the not-sleeping thing negatively impacts every day. Mood. Stress response. Energy levels.
On the nights when we don't have TV, or technology on after 8pm, I sleep much better..so blue light is definitely a thing, for me anyway. Rescue Remedy do a sleep balm which me and husband are finding helpful. But truthfully, I think the thing that is turning around sleep for me is weaning off caffeine. I would have two cups of fresh filter coffee a day, brewed in a stove too coffee pot. But I recently had bronchitis and the coffee aggravated it badly, so I have weaned down , and instead, have just one cup of tea a day, and supplement with rooibos tea and lots 9f water. The change in my sleep has been profound, one night this week I slept through all night! It has also reduced my anxiety, and significant improvements in bowels, which hopefully means improved absorption. You may already not take caffeine ofcourse, but just thought I would mention this.The caveat is, that I love coffee so this is a real choker for me, but health is key to some of my anxiety so I had to tackle this. Also, if you do decide to come off coffee, or all caffeine,do lots of reading online first so you are fully prepared for the withdrawal. It has been a very unpleasant 3 weeks getting to this point, including low blood pressure, headaches, cold like symptoms. Just seem to be coming good now as I start week 4.
I started to take Vit D (on GPs advise) about 3 months ago and I was shocked to find that after about a week I started to sleep better and for the first time in years I have had the feeling of actually having had a reasonable nights sleep . Keeping my fingers crossed that it lasts😀
I suspect there is no ‘one size fits all’ remedy for sleep, as there are probably different underlying causes that different people may have, so all you can do is keep trying different things and seeing what happens. I agree with a lot of the previous replies, but thought I would also respond to add a few other things.
I am a very light sleeper anyway, and during my 30s I also had significant problems with sleep, either struggling to get to sleep or waking in the early hours and not being able to get back to sleep. I found that I had become extremely sensitive to caffeine, alcohol, chocolate, sugar and phenylalanine - so cutting those out (or reducing drastically (and having very limited amounts only in the morning)) really helped. Waking to use the loo in the early hours, then not being able to get back to sleep was also an issue, so strictly limiting the amount of liquid I consumed in the evening really helped (limiting it from about 7.00pm, and just having a sip of water if I was thirsty (but obviously making sure to get lots of water in, earlier in the day).
I am also sensitive to blue light and tech before bed causes problems for me as well.
As a light sleeper, I found that I have to have a very dark bedroom (blackout blinds, and no clocks with bright displays), and I also use quite a close fitting eye mask. To reduce noise, I use silicone ear pugs, and we invested in a superking bed, so disturbance from my partner (noise/movement) is really reduced. In terms of duvet wars (!), this year I have started tucking a small blanket over my shoulders and arms, so that I stay warm even if the duvet disappears towards the other side of the bed!
So I suppose, for me, there are two sides to the whole sleep issue - one is to try and identify anything that is stopping you falling to sleep in the evening, and then alter things around that; and the other is to identify the things that might be waking you up in the early hours, and address those - as if you can avoid being woken up then you might hopefully sleep all through? I read a great book about sleep by Matthew Walker - he was saying that ‘sleep pressure’ is important for falling asleep (ie how long since you last slept - if you nap quite late in the afternoon then it will reduce the sleep pressure (a build up of natural hormones etc that help you get off to sleep), so don’t nap after about 2.00pm if you can help it!
I find that if I briefly fall asleep in front of the tv, then even if I get up immediately and go to bed it is really difficult to sleep (because the ‘sleep pressure’ has gone)…
Maybe you should keep a diary of what you do / eat, and how well you sleep (or not), to try and work out what helps / hinders?
I read that methyl B12 can reduce sleep time. Might be worth experimenting with transposing another form. Have you checked out the Sleep Coach School on YouTube? If you're "trying" to get to sleep (or get back to sleep) this can be counterproductive (ironically). These are called "sleep efforts".
The program eventually helped me resolve my insomnia.
You just described my sleep pattern! Have been awake now since 3:45 (US) ready to climb a mountain! It's not every night, but most. Would also love to hear any suggestions.
When I wake up in the night as best I can I stay away from it is 'wrong' and it is good to sleep through the night. That is hard do social indoctrination. Nothing nefarious.
Then I do a task without the goal of completing it. I might vacuum but only until I am sleepy again. When in USA I drive to a lake and look at it until I start to feel sleepy. I do not go online, read, or walk very far. Right now I have a jigsaw puzzle and again I only work on it until I am tired. I stay away from trying to complete a section. Once I chose to look for one specific piece then go back to bed and that was not a good idea.
I reduce artificial light as much as possible.
This all came from knowing that before the advent of electric light humans would have two sleeps and get up in the middle of the night. The second sleep was referred to in literature quite commonly prior to electric light.
I take D3 with K2, 75 ug in a spray twice a day.
My body uses 'sun energy' in many ways, some that are unknown. I get a lot of sun when it is available and get cloudy sun energy when it is not. I never get enough to burn my skin.
I’ve recently started taking a herbal remedy called Moringa and am sleeping much better since. I bought it from Amazon and so far I’ve managed six straight hours most nights which for me is miraculous.
The down side is I’m only able to take half the recommended dose as am on a blood thinning med. It’s worth a try I reckon. Good luck x
Thank you, good suggestion. I also did read on another older post that Calmvalera from Hervert is recommended. And this, I think, contains valerian root.
Not sure about the stuff you mentioned but I've been hooked on valerian root for several yrs now. I learnt about it on a segment of Dr Oz's show. I have sleep apnea and also struggle with insomnia on and off.
It doesn't knock me out but it helps.
Forgot to mention earlier you might want to look at your thyroid levels and take a saliva cortisol test since you wake up during the early hours of the morning
Funny you should mention because I had a benign parotid tumor and half thyroid removed, with a nodule, about the same time I reckon my deficiency started. Do you think I could ask my GP/physician for a saliva cortisol test? Or maybe the hospital who are monitoring me since the op?
They'll probably look at you funny if you ask for a saliva test but sure you can try and see if the outcome is positive. If the doc is a functional doc you have a better chance if them knowing about it. Usually naturopaths are the ones that order the test and are knowledgeable enough to understand the results and how to treat it.
In Western medicine, the docs rely on specific tests that either show the adrenals are working or they arent. The issue with these tests is that they dont show the in between adrenals that are struggling . Just like the thyroid. I was told for 20 plus yrs that my thyroid was fine and my free t3 was scraping at the bottom of the range. I'd hardly call that optimal.
Are you on thyroid meds? I would really encourage you to join the thyroid forum. By the mercy of God, they helped me turn my thyroid life around. Plus there are a few members that are good at interpreting saliva cortisol test results.
Thank you so much for your help.Ive had no follow up on Thyroid and was told to see my UK GP if I have symptoms. Not that I would know what those symptoms would be??
I did get the tests but similar to your story they're not extensive and don't show anything.
So I could maybe pay for a private saliva cortisol test and post my reply to the Thyroid group? Since Im only on half a thyroid now for the past 2 years.
I tried some naturopaths but you really have to get a recommendation in London. Ive met some very kind but unhelpful healers! So maybe I will pay for a cortisol test.
Do you have yr thyroid test? I cant imagine your thyroid isnt struggling with half of it gone. I almost can bet a billion dollars that there is a link btwn the health issues you have and your missing thyroid. Thyroid hormones affect every cell of our body. Post your thyroid levels. TSH , Free t3 and Free t4 plus antibodies. Include the lab ranges as well.
If the thyroid is struggling, the adrenals are forced to work harder and it causes a dysregulation of the HPA axis.
Sorry to hear about your experiences with unhelpful naturopaths. Been there and wasted money as well seeking thyroid help. I got my life back with the thyroid forum and a fb thyroid group.
I tried combination tea of chamomile and passionflower. It work but found I'm allergic to one or both. I do believe I read that magnesiun deficiency can cause this too and may go hand in hand with b12 deficiency. I take a magnesium tablet one a day. I do wake up still but find I get to sleep again quickly (so far only been doing this a couple of nights) I had years of not sleeping without any adverse effects but now it brings on neurological aymptpms which r scary. I have to say if I can't get to sleep it is best for me to leave the bedroom and watch something on the TV for half an hour. For me it breaks the continuous loops of thoughts I get stuck in, the. I go back to bed. I would also say go to be when first tired and don't wait 1. U get to sleep quicker 2. U break the habit of when u wake up 3 if u wake up at least u get some zzzs. Also if all else fails I intend taking melatonin but I have to not take alcohol that night. Or have in the past found some sea, ocean sounds (without music) un utubd. I cN always get some rest by the ocean. Hope that helps. Let us know how u get on.
*One nostril breathing (not the alternating yogic breathing). Apparently it balances the brain for sleep. Choose one nostril to close. Do not switch sides & breathe through the open nostril ten times.
*Five fake yawns
*On the inside of your wrist - middle position - accupressure point to push on gently.
I heard these years ago from an osteopath discussing sleep disturbances. I rarely tried the last two as one nostril breathing worked so well.
Also, I found out I had thyroid issues & once that was taken care of I now rarely need anything. So do investigate other possible reasons as well.
Thank you for the information on alternate nostril breathing. I used to do that 40 years ago and it worked so well I forgot about it. I am pretty excited to give it a go. I often wondered if the tossing a turning at night was about the body trying to balance.
Sorry to hear this Pickle500 . I've experienced this 'wide awake' on just a few hour's sleep when on loading doses, but particulaly with methylcobalamin, which I eventually stopped using as it left me completely wired.
Just wondering if it's possible to replace this for a couple of weeks or so, whilst maintaining your current dose level and seeing if there's a difference?
I’ve had lifelong sleep problems. Vitamin d3 /k2 made a difference. Also eating after 7 or any amount of alcohol/sugar affects me badly. Increased heart rate and disturbed sleep all night long.
If on occasion I’m asleep around 10pm I will wake at 3-4am, not sleep properly after and then be exhausted/wired the next day. Going to sleep a bit later but before 12 seems to work best. Counterintuitive I know, but would a later time help you sleep through?
( what type of methyl/adenosyl do you take? I tried methylcobalamin - don’t recall that it affected my sleep- but they work together, don’t they?)
Yeah, I've never been a great sleeper and I've always needed quite alot of it.
I never eat after 7.30 and I've been sober for 2 years now. I think it's really my nervous system that seems to wake up after deep sleep. The earlier part of the night is deep sleep, then by 3/4 it's REM lighter sleep. So I think my brain is telling me to wake up rather than enjoy a few dreams. I think it's really the nervous system that is still repairing to be honest.
I take an Amazon brand of bioactive B12. Methyl can make people agitated.
I slept better yesterday, I woke up at 5.30 instead of 3/4.
Again, I think it's my nervous system that's been traumatized and is still trying to heal. So anything that can soothe the nervous system, I believe, may be helpful.
yes I think after years of drinking your body does become traumatised and waking in the middle of night with disturbed sleep is just one sign. Stopping drinking and smoking were the best things I ever did.
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