Supplements & sleep patterns.

[Natural1970]

Hello group. I have started taking the Jarrow brand B12 1000 mcg supplement. Could it be possible that this can give you deep sleep and bad dreams. I have been taking two tablets at a time daily. I thought the daily dose is 2500mcg daily. I am due my 12 week B12 injection but i have started on these supplements because I have been feeling unwell before the 12 weeks are up. Hope this makes sense. Thank you.

[Nackapan]

I would try and get 8 weekly b12 injections. Write to your surgery

Point out any neurological symptoms. Guidelines state 8-12 weekly. This shouldd not be s problem for them to prescribe.

Only way to find out is stop or half dose of Jarrow b12.

If they have an effect you can absorb them which is good news .

Methylcobalabin isn't tolerated by some . Only if you can absorb enough or inject it.

Or try another brand 🤔

Will be interested to hear from others with this

[Natural1970 in reply to Nackapan]

Thanks for the reply Nackapan.I have only taken one 1000mcg B12 supplement today rather than two. Hopeful that it means at least I am absorbing the B12 like you said. I have felt better (symptoms, weakness, balance) since starting Jarrows brand. I'm due my injection this month (18th) and will try and request for 8 weekly instead. Hopefully my vivid dreams will subside. Thanks for your advice.

[Nackapan in reply to Natural1970]

Back up your request in writing . Might help as scanned on your notes. Clearly stated in genetic guidelines 8-12 weekly .

Can prescribe more if in the interest of the patient !!

I'm on a 2 weekly prescription.

Challenged frequently as Gps want their backs covered by a specialists recommendation.

This is not the case with 8 weekly .

Let us know how you get on please.

[Gambit62 Administrator]

The tablets are methylcobalamin - and some people don't get on with methyl. High dose cyano and hydroxo are around nut more difficult to find but might suit you better.

[Natural1970 in reply to Gambit62]

Thanks Gambit62. I'm going too try and find some Cyano. See if that is any better.

[Nackapan in reply to Natural1970]

Cyanocobalamin readily available online and in local chemists .High dose van be ordered in.

It's much cheaper too.

I've tried loads but not hydroxcobalamin as couldn't find that easily. 😕

Good if you can absorb it for inbetween injections 💉

[Natural1970 in reply to Nackapan]

Thank you. I am at University Hospital Coventry tomorrow for an appointment. I'm going to buy the cyanocobalamin and give that a try. I will check for the Hydroxocobalamin also and let you know.

[Natural1970 in reply to Nackapan]

No success at the University Hospital Coventry. The chemist shelves were very bare. Anyway. I'm about to look online for Cyano. My first port of call is with Amazon Prime. What strength should i start with for inbetween muscle three monthly. I'm thinking 1000mcg. Thank you

[Tanitha]

As Nackapan said some people seem not to tolerate methylcobalamin and I thought I would share this in case it helps others. Well before HealthUnlocked and the PAS there was a forum led by two paramedics. They were documenting and sharing their experiences with B12 deficiency and trying to help others - one was called Freddd if my memory serves me right, and they were a lifeline at the time. They were strong advocates of Jarrow methyl but when I tried it I felt very jittery, my neck felt like it was swelling and I literally had to lie down and sleep it off. Others reported similar problems and the advice was to cut the tablet into small pieces and take just as much as you could tolerate.

At first I reacted to anything greater than the tiniest piece and was concerned it was due to an intolerance to a filler but continued as I was seeing an improvement in my symptoms. Eventually I was able to tolerate a whole tablet with just the benefits.

My advice would be to start on a low dose and take it slowly, there's no rush, and monitor what you are doing so you know what to tweak if necessary.

[Natural1970 in reply to Tanitha]

Thank you. Sound advice.

[EiCa in reply to Tanitha]

Fredd’s advice (along with Rich’s protocol) are found on a site called Phoenix Rising. Freed and Rich disagree with each other and both have pretty comprehensive/extensive protocols. I read a lot of their work when I was trying to determine why I wasn’t doing well with methylcobalamin. They mostly used sub-lingual tablets if I recall. One of them has passed on now, but his work still remains. The two of them have helped a lot of people.

[Tanitha in reply to EiCa]

Amazing. Thank you so much for that; they helped me enormously in the early days. I haven't forgotten that lifeline and remember them with fondness. I shall have a good look at the Phoenix Rising website.

[Nackapan in reply to Tanitha]

Did you ever try other forms? Good advice to build tolerance .

I've a pill cutter

Some vits easier to cut than others if needed .

Never heard of that helpline.

[Tanitha in reply to Nackapan]

I have tried hydroxo both injection and tablet form but only good results from injection, different methyl tablets but only good results with with Jarrow, cyano which I don’t get on with at all and adenosylcobalamin which made no difference. I have often wondered whether people who don’t tolerate methyl are reacting the way I did initially - it would be an interesting experiment.

If you do take a look at the website just search for Fred and you will see his story and protocol. I had a good read through again last night (it must have been Rich who was the paramedic).

[Tanitha]

Just been looking at the Jarrow and note that they describe the tablets as chewable. They used to be sublingual so you dissolved them under the tongue - there was an argument that the sublingual was pointless and that in fact you were only digesting them - but my point is that it could take up to an hour to dissolve a tablet and this could possibly give a longer absorption time than simply swallowing or chewing. Just a thought.

I forgot to say that I also slept more deeply when taking them.

[Natural1970 in reply to Tanitha]

Yes. I chew and swallow the tablet. Like you say, it would take quite a while to dissolve. Thanks.

[newlandvale]

I have the same issue when first started with cyancobalamin - it worried me so stopped the tablets. Then noticed after my 8 weekly injection I slept better that night. Returned to daily tablets and it settled to a pleasant deeper sleep (Before B12 supplements I rarely dreamed).

Now taking 1000mcg Lamberts Methylcobalamin same effect. Interestingly cheaper off the shelf supplements and a pricey well-known high street supplier's supplements do not have this affect, I use this dreaming, and longer undisturbed sleeping hours, as a guage to judge effectiveness of s supplement before other symptoms return.

I suspect I may have the adult onset genetic cobalamin c defect for a number of reasons including an above range active B12 blood test result.

[SouthSounder]

I find properly done sublingual B12 to be quite effective. Here's a study from 2019 which concluded "This is the largest study that documents therapy with SL (sublingual) preparations of VB12 sufficient and even superior to the IM (intramuscular) route. The SL overcomes the challenges of IM injections and should be the first line option for patients with VB12d." Note that you need to use tabs designed to be taken sublingually. pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/306...

[Nackapan in reply to SouthSounder]

I was told by a neurologist who had b12 deficiency the opposite.IM most trusted route.

Not enough evidence in everything g he read that was available to back up oral b12 .

I trued very hard to reduce injections s and use sublingual b22 tablet b12 spray b12 .

Some simply cannot absorb enough .

[SouthSounder in reply to Nackapan]

I think you're right about properly done IM being more reliable in general; I think the piece was favoring SL because they believe a lot of patients may have an issue with the jabbing. But I do believe they're right about properly done sublingual also being effective. I think my symptoms are a bit less than those of many I've read here, not entirely sure why; my PA has been confirmed with tests. One major symptom I have is tendon pain in my wrists and hands. Before I got diagnosed & began treatment, my wrists/hands were so sore I could hardly brush my teeth without wincing in pain. I do a combination of injections & sublingual, and I do find the sublingual gets rid of the tendon pain when it reappears, but not for as long as a jab.

[Nackapan in reply to SouthSounder]

I also have IM and Sc b12 injections 💉 for over 2 years now.I've made copius notes .

Very little difference.

In my experience.

IM can go in quicker. Sometimes a bonus.

But do seem to 'get rid' notable increase in urination.

SC seem to ladt just as long.

I realise this does not make sense as IM deeper.

However is the case with me.

I'm always hoping an IM one will last longer.

It does attines give one day of watching I don't do 'tok much' as an then crash.

Will continue to have both.