What type of b complex works better?

[Hamayeshguy]

Recently I have noticed b complex get depleted along with B12 injection or talking timed release or infusion forms and it causes to feel cold specially at night. So I started to review b complex brands and their formulation. It's look like there is no any specific combination of b vitamin, some if them are 50 sine 100 and some are active form some timed release and sine are low b vitamins along with some herbal extracts for hormone boosting or energy increasing. But which one is better? But I found that it's important to maintain b complex in blood serum at proper level. Active form or coenzyme of b vitamins are preferred since it doesn't require enzymes to get converted in our body but in b complex formula with active form there are some concern. First in brands like AOR B6 active form is too much because active form of b6 has 75% more absorption than non active form and high B6 can cause nerve damage. The other is b3 which in active form work in different mechanism and doesn't affect cholesterol metabolism but non active form lower bad cholesterol. Non active form of B3 cause flush and high doses causes liver damage in some people. Non active form of b9 which is called folic acid and us artificial form of b9 can not be metabolized in some people's body. Cyanocobalamin also can not be metabolized in some people's body. Artificial form of B12 like benfotiamine which could be dissolved in fat and as well as in water not much studied yet. That's why I couldn't find any good combination of b complex yet. Currently I use thorne stress b complex but it's folate is so low and requires to take methyl folate too. Price if b complex is also important and quality of the brand too. Any comments regarding good b complex?

[Nackapan]

I just take a multivit now . Has same as b complex and more . All at a RDA .some days I have a vitamin holiday too.

[lynxis in reply to Nackapan]

I also just take a multivitamin now (plus a probiotic and DIM). I got tired of chasing after individual vitamin deficiencies and having so many bottles around.

[Nackapan in reply to lynxis]

I do take vitamin D separately as well

[2FloorLuka]

I can't absorb vitamin "B" complex properly, so I have to inject it on a regular basis. Not as often as B12, but i can't miss it. All kinds of vitamin B deficiencies are scary, but pellagra and beriberi, in my opinion, are the worst. We can't deny that there is a lot of ignorance around b12 deficiency, but i really think that most doctors are not prepared to diagnose ANY KIND of vitamin deficiency. They act like it is just a chapter in their book, not an actual disease.

[Narwhal10 in reply to 2FloorLuka]

Hi 2FloorLuka,

I totally agree and I wish that vitamins and minerals were called their proper name ESSENTIAL micronutrients. Without them metabolic pathways (certain chemical reactions) cannot happen or are reduced. (I’m not a scientist). Only when people are very ill then we are treated.

Excuse my strong opinion.

Best wishes

[deniseinmilden in reply to Narwhal10]

I agree completely! I wish more of this was taught in schools from primary induction age up, with greater complexity each year as the pupils got older! If it's was, there would be a focus on changing the outlook on food to an essential requirement for life and well-being and would radically improve a lot of the issues of just about everything, including Dr's attitudes towards nutrition for health too. If people ate better they would feel better, there would be greater mental stability throughout society, less illness, etc, etc!

[deniseinmilden in reply to 2FloorLuka]

Very well said!

[newbiegirl]

I take Health Leads Vitamin B Complex and I think it’s excellent.

[lynxis]

I now just take a multivitamin (Best Nest Multi+) on top of trying to reach nutrient sufficiency with an Autoimmune Protocol diet which includes organ meat, fish and shellfish, and tons of vegetables and fruits.

[Hamayeshguy in reply to lynxis]

I think multivitamin micronutrients bioavailability is not possible for all of ingredients in it. Calcium ion prevent absorption if iron, magnesium, manganese and probably bother metals. B12 absorption can inhibited by vitamin c. I wish there was micro nidle patch available for vitamins in different groups with reasonable price. I think some food stuff like Ginger are packed with essential micro nutrients. Pickle of these kind of stuff make their nutrients more bioavailable. Some b complex also have herbal extract which contains some other ingredients which can prevent absorption of some micronutrients.

[deniseinmilden in reply to Hamayeshguy]

Yes, to a certain extent, but if you eat balanced meals they contain all sorts of vitamins and minerals and it works well for almost everyone. If you take your multivitamin and mineral tablets with a meal they will work well. Don't over complicate things until you are basically well again.

It is only in very extreme cases that you need to keep nutrients apart. I know, as I am one of those who has to keep my haem iron and calcium sources two hours away from each other but this is very rare.

You would do much better to start off with a simple protocol - which will get you better - until you are better and once you feel well again you can make adjustments then to see if you can get further improvements.

[deniseinmilden in reply to lynxis]

Sounds excellent!

[Littlelodge123]

I do not take anything in the way of vitamins. The evidence in them is sketchy in my opinion and I would not take anything unless I knew I had a deficiency. I had my vitamin levels tested a couple of years ago after taking supplements ( I also have EPI), and several of them were over the top limit so I stopped. Can’t say I have noticed the slightest difference.

[deniseinmilden in reply to Littlelodge123]

Good for you: not everyone needs them and I'm pleased to hear that you have listened to your body and don't need them - however lots of people with digestive issues do have serious problems without them. Do you take Creon or other digestive enzymes to help with the EPI?

In animal nutrition (and we are just "human" animals and usually eat much less balanced diets) there is unequivocal evidence to show how positive correct vitamin and mineral supplementation is. Because animals don't know what is in their diets it is easy to prove that the supplements are having a physiological benefit because there is no placebo effect in the equation.

[Littlelodge123 in reply to deniseinmilden]

Us I’m properly medicated for EPI. I was merely sharing my own personal experience here which I believe is the purpose of the forum. Frankly I was personally alarmed how many people take a B complex when it appeared most people didn’t even know if they needed them. The question was, I thought, specifically about B vits and in my own case I followed advice on here to take them and a couple were found to be over range. My Gp asked if I was supplementing, which I was, and was told to stop. It is indeed strange because EPI is associated with poor vitamin (among other things) uptake as is PA as is low stomach acid. I was just saying don’t assume you need anything - get tested first. And to the other commentator, these tests were done on the NHS as requested by my gastroenterologist, so they are available in the appropriate circumstances. Some B vits at high levels can have negative impacts on health and are not simply pee’d out or can’t be pee’d out quickly enough otherwise they would not have been in my system to excess. I have had them checked again and the only one I need is folate. Doc wanted to give me 5mg but we agreed I’d take 400 mcg, again as recommended here and we are reviewing at 6 months. I think it is important we all share our personal stories, not just negative ones, if people are to make informed choices.

[deniseinmilden in reply to Littlelodge123]

I couldn't agree more - hence my positive "good for you" comment to start my reply. I was actively trying to support what you said up front because, although it reminded me of the way Drs and the media can be inclined to blanket rubbish supplements and I wanted to mention my animal nutrition experiences, I really didn't want to seem argumentative. I should have worded it better but wasn't well enough to keep my thinking straight, so I'm sorry for that. (Just been asleep for most of 36 hours now and am gradually starting to untangle my neurons! My friends who are at other local surgeries in my area can get full blood tests, including itemised B vitamins, which is great, but at my surgery they will only do a combined "B12 & folate" test.

I know, by a significant positive health response to additional B complex tablets if I take them, that I need more of at least one of the B vitamins, but don't just take them because I'm aware of the potential to OD on some of them, particularly B6, and the chance of adding to my problems as well as solving some.

It is very frustrating that I cannot get a B vitamin breakdown test to see what I do, and maybe do not, need. At my next pancreas review (in theory in January but I haven't heard from them yet and think that Omicron might have thrown spanners in their works) I plan to ask Addenbrookes to write to my GPs to request the separate B vitamins test that you talk of and thank you for redoubling my resolve to do this!

While it is correct that if someone isn't supplementing with B12 the Drs should always use the combined "B12 & folate" test, to guard against masking a B12 deficiency with folic acid supplements, the fact that this is all they offer, shows such a lack of understanding of nutrition it is scary.

My surgery is worse than hopeless in several other ways and has the reputation of being the worst, by a long way, of any in about a 50 mile radius but I haven't changed (yet?) because if you can get around the bad practice management, some of the Drs themselves are very good and everywhere here is under so much pressure, not least because of an insane level of house building all around.

[Littlelodge123 in reply to deniseinmilden]

No problem at all - I didn’t d just want to balance things up. We all need more optimism in our lives! It was my gastroenterologist who wrote to my GP to get the Vit screens done. Interestingly they did not have the collection tubes for the blood (as they rarely do them) - which is understandable. They did however get them quickly and the bloods had to be sent to a regional centre for evaluation so again it wasn’t done locally. I think it’s really interesting to note what is possible though when specialists get involved!

Good luck with it all.

[Nackapan in reply to Littlelodge123]

I used to think that until i was caught out.First by very low vit d then b12 in my boots eventually tested . First one ever which is very poor given my symtoms before collapsing

I think I was wrongly thinking j was absorbing my excellent diet.

Always eaten well.

Off the allotment

Ful range if foods.

I was told years ago you wee out vitaminsakso csn ve bad if supplemented were dangerous.

That stuck with me as young.

I think whst us missing us routinely testing fir deficiencies if having symptons .

This is not done even on 'health checks???

Assuming I was absorbing everything was a tough lesson for me.

Got too ill to think straight to ask for tests.

After 7 yesrs of not needing a doctors time but knowing something wrong told stress . No blood tests .

I dudnt have the money or time in that period for private regilar vitamin checks.

Wasn't even on my radar.

Believed all got ftom food.

So although ive always viewed good food is essential. .

My view has changed towards supplements.

After all b12 us keeping us alive and I often think if only ....

I agree only take supplements if uyou need them.

Can be tricky though getting everything tested /checked.

Thats why I take a multivit . Only with RDA .

And alternate routine as now need iron.

???

If I stop going by blood tests need a naintenance dose ???

I eat various very good sources of iron hrsm and otherwise With vit c

Our bodies change

I'm more interested why

So nit 'clean cut fir ne anymore

[deniseinmilden]

An A-Z multivitamin and mineral supplement (basic supermarket ones are as good as, if not better than the more expensive branded ones) is better than a B complex as it has all the B vitamins plus other vitamins and minerals you need.

There is no point in trying to make it complicated - it will be worse for you and in the long run if you keep trying everything you will realise there is no substitute for plenty of hydroxocobalamin injections, a broad spectrum multivitamin and mineral supplement and maybe some additional folate, potassium, magnesium, iron and vitamin D3 + K2, ideally from your diet.

Once you have been doing this for several months and improving well you can try other things to see if you can fine tune your results but you need to do the basics first to get your deficiency and therefore health anxiety under control as soon as possible and then go from there.

Please!