B12 Subcut or IM

[montague53]

Is B12 injections effective when given subcutaneously. Or is it more effective given intramuscular. Does anyone know please.

[Andrianna]

I would like to know as well!

[montague53 in reply to Andrianna]

Hi Andrianna, I don't know if you seen the replies but you can inject B12 IM or sub-cut. IM absorbs the B12 faster into your system, and sub-cut goes in more slowly over a day of so. I prefer to do sub-cut into my tummy using an insulin syringe with a micro-fine needle as it is easy, almost painless and safer to do at home.

[deniseinmilden]

While nurses usually inject B12 intramuscularly, at least hundreds of people inject B12 sub cut with good results and as far as I know it is always given to cats under the skin and dogs usually so! In farm animals we do either.

It is licensed for all routes - i.m., s.c. and intravenous so there's no problem however you do it.

That said, it would be interesting to know if there was any difference beyond personal preference for those who have tried both routes - I just do i.m. as its easy for me.

[montague53 in reply to deniseinmilden]

Thank you deniseinmilden, I do it sub-cut as I think it's easier and safer to do at home. I just wondered if I should be doing it I.M. I feel reassured that sub-cut is a good route too.

[wedgewood]

I believe that I.M. and sub-cutaneous are equally effective , I.M. getting to where it needs to go a bit quicker . I chose I.M. because it gives one a large injectable area - outer middle third of both thighs .

[montague53 in reply to wedgewood]

Thank you wedgewood,

I do subcut just because I felt it was safer as I was doing it at home. I have sub-acute degeneration of the spine and suspect I have a functional B12 deficiency as my sister and other family members all are B12 deficient. I seem to need to inject every other day, and the healing is very slow.

[fbirder]

Both are going to be similar. Both will supply the same amount of B12 to the body, but one will do it faster than the other. However, nobody knows which would be the faster (at least I can find no actual studies).

Many people assume that it will be faster from an IM injection, because B12 is water soluble. But it doesn't actually travel from the injection site to the blood by going through the cells. It will diffuse in the fluid surrounding the cells. And that will be similar in both cases.

So it's all down to personal preference in the end.

[montague53 in reply to fbirder]

Thank you fbirder,

I just wanted to make sure that I was getting the B12 into my system effectively when doing it subcutaneously, and not IM route. I feel reassured now. I have sub-acute degeneration of the spine and I think the healing is just very slow, but I do see some improvement. I do my injections at home and have started taking them more regularly now, every second day and am starting to see improvements. I suspect Im functional B12 deficiency as I seem to need a lot of it and my sister and several extended family members have B12 deficiency.

[Galixie]

I agree with everyone who have said that both routes are effective.

I do have personal experience using both methods. For me, I found that I needed to inject more B12 subcutaneously to get the same effect as I was getting with a single IM injection. I accomplished this by injecting small amounts more frequently. I ended up switching back to doing IM injections because I prefer to inject less often. I assume everyone is a bit different, so my experience may not apply.

[montague53 in reply to Galixie]

Thankyou, Galixie,

that is really helpful. I am a nurse myself and I had read that subcut was o.k. to do instead of IM. So I have been doing my injections subcut for 6 months now and was wondering if IM might be more effective. I have neurological damage, sub-acute degeneration of the spine. It is taking a long time to heal although I do see improvement but it is very slow. I prefer doing subcutaneous as I feel its safer doing it at home myself. How often and how much do you inject. I suspect I have functional B12 as I need to take a lot of it, and also it is genetical in my extended family. There is 7 people all B12 deficient.

[Galixie in reply to montague53]

I currently have 1000mcg once a week IM. When I was doing subcutaneous injections I played around with the dosing in order to find the right amount at the time. At the end I was taking 250mcg every day. When I first tried subQ, I started with too low of a dose for me (between 70-100mcg), and I ended up getting worse for awhile until I realized it wasn't enough.

I'm not sure why, but I seem to be able to get along better on one 1000mcg IM injection than I do if I split the dose into four subQ injections spaced through the week. It doesn't make any logical sense to me, but that is what I experienced.

[montague53 in reply to Galixie]

Hi Galixie, that's good you have found a dose and route that works for you. I am now taking 1000mg Hydroxocobalamin plus 1000mg methylcobalamin injections every other day as I have serious neuro damage. I only upped my dose recently and have seen a great improvement increasing my dose. Before I was only taking 1000mg B12 once every 2 weeks, then I tried one injection every week. Improvement was still very slow so that's why I increased it again. I think I have functional B12 deficiency and that's why I need so much.

[waveylines]

I do subcut. I inject at bedtime so its in my system by the morning as it takes a few hours. 😊 I use both thighs and the fat below my tummy.....gives me plenty to rotate round. Am injecting daily. The difference its made to my life is remarkable!

[montague53 in reply to waveylines]

Thank you waveylines,

how much B12 do you inject daily and do you have functional B12 if you need to take it everyday. I suspect I do although Dr's don't seem to have a clue about it. Lots of extended family members are B12 deficient, including my sister.

[waveylines in reply to montague53]

I inject 1mg in 1ml daily. Being doing daily for a month now and I can really feel and see the difference.

[montague53 in reply to waveylines]

That's great, your seeing improvements. I was taking 1mg every two weeks, then increased to weekly . I am now taking 1mg of hydroxocobalamin and 1mg of methylcobalamin every other day by sub-cut into my tummy due to neuro problems. I have only being doing this about 3 to 4 weeks now and am starting to see improvements in my mobility and energy. Less memory problems and less spine pain and dizziness.

[LuluCops]

Hi montague53, I wanted to know the same thing and I asked a nurse while I was on the ward yesterday with my daughter, but she didn’t have a clue!??

I was interested in doing it SC because the needles seem a lot finer and apparently don’t hurt as much. I struggle giving it IM as I find it hurts too much, (I have allodynia, and therefore am very sensitive to pain) funnily enough I used to have a high pain threshold, not anymore!!

I’d be interested in other people’s thoughts on this though??

It might be because the needles that the surgery gave me are a low gauge and I discovered yesterday that the higher the number, the finer the needle! At the moment for example they have given me the emerald 23g needle which I think is HUGE!! Whereas the SC ones (such as the diabetic ones) are 29 or 30g!! I am thinking of buying mine online as I have to source my injections online anyway. The needles and alcohol swabs etc, I have found on Medisave.com and have found them to be very reasonably priced. Will follow this post with interest xx

[montague53 in reply to LuluCops]

Hi LuluCops, I am a nurse too, I inject sub-cut and use fine insulin syringes with needle attached, it's so easy and would be much less painful for you. I also get them from medisave. I just wanted to ask and make sure that I was using the most effective route. How long have you had B12 deficiency for and how much and how often do you inject. I buy my B12 ampoules from Germany pharmacy and inject myself.

[Gunj_redjem in reply to montague53]

How long have u been deficient for?what we’re your symptoms?r ur symptoms improved?

[montague53 in reply to Gunj_redjem]

I went to the G.P. two years ago complaining of symptoms but I am sure I had it for a lot longer. Memory problems, felt like dementia! Exhaustion, pins and needles, numbness in arms and hands, legs and feet, muscle cramps, spinal tremors, ataxia. Was falling all over the place, dizziness, blurred vision, constant infections. Vitiligo, pigmentation, and many more. So many symptoms, I think the G.P. thought I was a hypochondriac. She didn't take me seriously and I had really bad care, so ended up with Subacute degeneration of the spine, demyelination too. I started doing my own injections once a fortnight, then once a week and now every second day. I feel so much better in the regular B12 injections and I am improving but slowly. I am a nurse so I inject myself and source the B12 from German pharmacy. I have a strong family history of B12 deficiency, my sister injects and there is 7 other females in my extended family who have B12 deficiency. I am beginning to think I have a functional B12 deficiency and that is why I need more B12 than normal.

[Gunj_redjem in reply to montague53]

Ur levels must b high then being a nurse do u hav any knowledge that high b12levels can b dangerous in pregnancy?

[montague53 in reply to Gunj_redjem]

My serum levels are high but my body doesn't transport the B12 from my blood into my cells due to a gene fault. So I have B12 deficiency and low B12 actually getting to my cells and tissues. This is why I have to inject so much B12. B12 is a water soluble vitamin and is harmless. What your body does not need it flushes out. All I know about pregnancy is that it is not good to be B12 deficient.

[Gunj_redjem in reply to montague53]

Are your tremors in control?

[montague53 in reply to Gunj_redjem]

Yes, hardly ever get them now.

[LuluCops in reply to montague53]

That’s brilliant, thank you.

I haven’t long been diagnosed tbh, they wanted to give me cyano tablets but I refused them, so I also buy my B12 from a pharmacy in Germany and inject myself.

Thank you for your reply xx

[montague53 in reply to LuluCops]

Hi LuluCops,

That's great you refused and are now doing it yourself. I think it's a disgrace so many people are being let down by healthcare due to B12 deficiency. It is a cheap injection and is water soluble, so is harmless. The whole system is wrong. So many people are suffering needlessly.

[LuluCops in reply to montague53]

I completely agree! There’s no way of overdosing on it, what your body doesn’t need it pees out! Like you said it’s water soluble and very cheap! It is so important too, as with the thyroid medication I think it’s absolutely disgusting that this country is thinking more about money than peoples health!! 😡

[montague53 in reply to LuluCops]

You are so right, I have hashimotos thyroid and can't get the right meds I need for that either. Everything is a fight to get proper treatment. I feel for the people who don't have access to treatment or understand what is going on with them and just become sick because of the lack of support.

[LuluCops in reply to montague53]

I too have Hashimotos and I’m struggling to get them to even put my Levo up from 25mcg let alone even think about giving me T3 or NDT!! Looks like I’m going to have to self-source and fund that too!! xx

[montague53]

Feel your pain, my Dr would only give me 50mg of T4 and it was not making a difference. I sourced T3 for myself but the supplier was stopped from selling it into the U.K. I managed to get some NDT (Thyroid S). It was great at first but seems to be weaker now as it has a poor shelf life. I read other people have had this problem. Good luck, getting NDT as it is more difficult now to get.

[waveylines]

Im also taking ndt as Ive suffered with hypothyroidism for years and ndt works far better than levo in my case. Im lucky as I do get it on the nhs.....it was a very long battle to achieve, resulting in me changing gps.

I dont understand the nhs and b12 -there is very poor awareness. I was sooooo ill before treatment but still dismissed, though happy to refer me on to neurology with a four month wait -job done as far as they were concerned! The neurologist was supportive, wanting to research b12 & neurological symptoms as if it was something new as he said he has a number of patients reporting improvements on b12.. Asked if he could use my case.

Both hypothyroidism and b12 deficiency is much mis understood in the medical profession. I have Vitiligo universal, meaning I have lost all my pigment in my skin, which has a known strong link with both conditions but still the GP did not twig even though its on their screens!! Vitiligo runs in my family so I believe in my case it is genetic.

This ignorance has lead many to self treat to avoid damage and to ensure they recover.

Am prescribed alternate day b12 injections which really helped, then I plateaued so went onto daily (not prescribed) amd again a big leap in improvement. I offered to carry on subcut, GP agreed as it costs far less if I do so supply me with needles and syringes. The b12 vials are on my repeat script.

I think both conditions are seen in a far too simplistice way but as I said even when the info is on the GP screen it can & is ignored. At the time I was told they have several patients with tremors of unknown cause and they dont treat them with b12 injections. And apart from referring on were happy to leave me to deterioate. Shocking! My b12 blood test result was 275 so technically in range.....but surely the Vitiligo link shouldve been a big red flag!

These days Im very much of the opinion of patient treat yourself with either condition as relying on the medical profession to act effectively is unlikely.

[montague53 in reply to waveylines]

Hi waveylines, that's really good you got NDT on the NHS, I can't get anyone to take me seriously. I have TPO antibodies and the endo refused to see me, so infuriating. I have vitiligo too but just spots over my arms and legs. I am so sorry to hear that you have such severe vitiligo. Vitiligo is well known by DR's to be a sign of autoimmune disease, they should have taken you more seriously. It sounds to me that if they would have picked up on this and taken your symptoms more seriously you would have avoided a lot of pain and unnecessary damage.

I too have had to inject B12 myself because nobody would take me seriously. I ended up with sub-acute combined degeneration of the spine. My serum B12 levels where not low enough for them, but agreed I did have a lot of the symptoms. I believe I have a genetic functional B12 deficiency which means that It blood serum can be higher but the B12 does not get transported from the blood to the cells. I took them in papers I got from Pernicious Anemia society regarding functional and genetic deficiency, and told them 7 females in my family have B12 deficiency as well as my sister who injects. They refused to give me treatment and I was getting sicker and sicker, so I had no choice but to source and inject B12 myself. My treatment has been shocking too, and we are not alone. My neuro symptoms are improving now that I inject every second day. I need to source some NDT now but am struggling to find it. The Dr's are not giving me adequate treatment, so I don't have a choice.

[waveylines]

Am so so sorry to hear what has happened to you montague53.

I only got ndt on the nhs by seeing an endo who was ndt friendly and recommended it to my GP and secondly once no medic could deny the efficacy of the ndt (bought for three years privately) I negotiated with another GP surgery that they would prescribe on the nhs before transferring. This was a few years ago before the T3 embargo so no idea if that route will work now. However as T3 is sooo expensive it maybe considered a cheaper option....