i think orall spray b12 is working

[weazle74]

today i felt some energy i was able to do some cleaning and went out for a walk i hope every day it will get beter ...i hope it works my test were 101 b12[ 180-900] my doctor dont believe than i am ill from low 12.. he says my nerves are bad

[Nackapan]

You know your body. Just try and pace. I try and achieve one thing a day at present. Very hard when you get a bit of energy. If I push through it usually ends up with a headache or migrain

All very frustrating

[weazle74 in reply to Nackapan]

i do litle and litle again i still feel dizzy i hope i start to feel my self again

[Nackapan in reply to weazle74]

Yes I hope you do too. Cawthorne pysio exercises helped me when I was very dizzy and couldnt walk straight. I'm still waiting too. T C

[clivealive Forum Support]

Hi weazle74 Despite what your doctor said if your Vitamin B12 test results came back as 101 [180-900] then you are deficient and should really have been given injections.

However, as it appears that the oral spray is working - that is good, but improvement is likely to be quite slow as it is reckoned that only a very small percentage of the B12 actually gets into the cells where it is needed.

When your doctor says that your "nerves are bad" he is probably quite right as having a B12 deficiency cases nerves to be damaged and the spray is starting to repair that damage.

Are you able to eat plenty of meat, fish, seafood, eggs, poultry, and dairy produce as it is from these foods that we naturally source Vitamin B12?

Also, do you eat plenty of green vegetables, sprouts, broccoli, asparagus, spinach, peas, beans etc as these provide us with Folate which works with the B12 and iron to make red blood cells?

I am not a medically trained person and wish you well.

[deniseinmilden in reply to clivealive]

Thank you Clive - it's so frustrating to hear people being treated so badly, isn't it?

Why, oh why, oh, why are the Drs so negligent! I know all the reasons of training and funding, etc but there's an unforgivable amount of bigotry with it too!

Dear weazle74, I'm sure you are feeling better with the spray - it's good stuff and will help - but as Clive says you should be getting more treatment - really injections.

Please read the replies by Foggyme, Sleepybunny and other great contributors here to get more information on how to get the treatment you need.

You can find these by going to their profiles by double clicking on their names and looking under the heading "replies".

I'll try to include links to their names in a separate reply.

Good luck with getting the treatment you need.

[deniseinmilden in reply to deniseinmilden]

Sleepybunny

[deniseinmilden in reply to deniseinmilden]

Foggyme

[clivealive Forum Support in reply to deniseinmilden]

Hi deniseinmilden sadly a lot of people will "fall" into a B12 deficiency by the latest "fad" toward veganism/vegetarianism unless they are informed of the danger.

God gave us meat to eat and He knows what He is doing.

[deniseinmilden in reply to clivealive]

Very true! Our bodies are designed to eat meat.

And if people didn't eat meat there wouldn't be any farm animals, grazed grassland (including all our National Parks), lower grade corn land, etc, etc. Britain in particular would be a very different place.

[weazle74 in reply to deniseinmilden]

i actualy dont have many teeth to chew and i was avoiding meat but i was eating grains beans lentith and other well i hope i soon feel beter as is really bad

[deniseinmilden in reply to weazle74]

The best dietary sources of B12 are from red meat, dairy products and fish.

Haem iron is only available from red meat.

Can you get more from pâté and soups and bolognese, cottage pie, shepherd's pie and similar recipes with quality mince?

I hope you find a solution soon.

[weazle74 in reply to deniseinmilden]

i also put beefs liver in my diet . dont eat anything from milk lactose intolorance

[deniseinmilden in reply to weazle74]

Beef liver is about the best dietary source of B12 you can get - well done.

I too am lactose intolerant. Be aware that it can be linked to a range of malabsorption issues.

[Hidden in reply to deniseinmilden]

You can get heme iron from fish as well.. Muscles and also from organ meat like chicken livers and spleens and blood.

[deniseinmilden in reply to Hidden]

Totally - and I so know it because I have to eat fish regularly to help me get enough haem iron because it is more easily digested than red meat. I now take digestive enzymes with my food so I can actually get more nutrients from what I eat but it was critical to me.

I sincerely apologise for not checking my reply thoroughly enough and can only assume I was struggling more than ever at the time.

I should have put red meat and fish, etc, shouldn't I? I had to practically give up eating chicken because I couldn't nutritionally afford to eat it (like chocolate but I make an exception for chocolate!! 😜). If I want to use poultry I use partridge breasts instead because they are relatively high in iron and hence the flesh is full of colour and flavour.

What I was, unsuccessfully, trying to say was that it is/was not possible to get haem iron supplements in the UK. They are available in the USA but are/were not imported into this country.

I'm afraid I cannot stand shell fish and seem to be allergic to prawns so I don't force myself to try different ones to see if there are any that are less unappealing to me than those I've already tried, so I can't say how easily they yield haem iron!

Thank you for your additional information.

[Hidden in reply to deniseinmilden]

Ah yes shellfish are the bottom feeders of the sea anyway... Not for everyone. I love salmon. I have never rheard of eating partridge! I thought they we're extinct or nearly extinct because I have only heard about them in the pear tree! I am going to go to the Asian shop butchers in town and see if they have spleens ...they have a lot of strange body parts of strange creatures there... And I have never eaten a spleen. I might have ava beans and a nice chianti with it too for my own amusement. I think blood seems to be really high in everything and we have somrhing here in Ireland in cork called drisheen ...which is just blood and spices poured into an intestine and boiled ..its sort of like the stuff that setfles out of meat and liver that blood jelly ...its weird and slippery. Oh god why am I thinking about it ...lol. Anyway that's something you could drink through a straw ... Very high in iron. If it doesn't creep the living bejeepers out of you lol! 🤣

[deniseinmilden in reply to Hidden]

It's sort of black pudding!

It did creep me out a lot at one time but I'm much more amenable to the idea now I know the benefits of it! 😁

They are starting to produce dried versions in capsules now.

[Hidden in reply to weazle74]

Salmon you can almost drink its so tender. And liver pate has b12 too I think its one of the higher pieces of meat you can get with it. I mean it has higher amount of b12 than a steak say. I think oysters and muscles too .. The only time I get enough is when I eat those things. Even though I eat meat eggs etc I have not been getting the RDA most days unless I eat a lot of meat and I don't like to eat a lot so I can eat some small amount of fish liver and I think blood also has it..it HSS iron which I need anyway as well. And all of those my mom can eat without her teeth! She only HaS fronties. 😁

[Sleepybunny]

Hi,

I hope you get the treatment you need soon.

Symptoms of B12 Deficiency

pernicious-anaemia-society....

b12deficiency.info/signs-an...

Risk Factors for PA and B12 Deficiency

pernicious-anaemia-society....

b12deficiency.info/what-are...

b12deficiency.info/who-is-a...

Is your diet rich in B12?

Do you eat plenty of B12 rich food eg meat, fish, eggs, dairy, shellfish, foods fortified with b12? A vegetarian or vegan diet can be a risk factor in developing B12 deficiency.

Have you been tested for PA (Pernicious Anaemia)?

In UK, this would be an Intrinsic Factor Antibody test. IFA test is not always reliable and it is still possible to have PA even if IFA result is negative.

Have you been tested for Coeliac disease?

Guidelines below suggest anyone in UK with unexplained B12, folate or iron deficiency should be tested for Coeliac.

NICE guidelines Coeliac Disease (2015 version)

nice.org.uk/guidance/ng20/c...

Coeliac Blood Tests

coeliac.org.uk/coeliac-dise...

Have you been tested for H Pylori infection?

patient.info/digestive-heal...

Are you on any medication that may affect B12 levels (or folate levels) eg PPI medication?

pulsetoday.co.uk/clinical/c...

There are other drugs that may affect B12 levels and folate levels.

Any exposure to nitrous oxide? Have you had any operations recently that required anaesthetics?

gov.uk/drug-safety-update/n...

If you think PA is a possibility then may be worth joining and talking to PAS.

PAS (Pernicious Anaemia Society)

Based in Wales, UK.

pernicious-anaemia-society....

PAS tel no [phone] answerphone

PAS support groups in UK

pernicious-anaemia-society....

B12 Deficiency Info

b12deficiency.info/

B12d.org

b12d.org/

UK B12 Blogs

Martyn Hooper's blog about PA

martynhooper.com/

B12 Deficiency Info blog

b12deficiency.info/blog/

PAS blog post about how PAS supports those seeking PA diagnosis

martynhooper.com/2017/06/24...

UK B12 documents

If you're in UK, I suggest reading all of these documents.

BSH Cobalamin and Folate Guidelines

b-s-h.org.uk/guidelines/gui...

Flowchart from BSH Cobalamin and Folate Guidelines

stichtingb12tekort.nl/weten...

Flowchart outlines diagnostic process for PA and Antibody Negative PA in UK.

BMJ B12 article

bmj.com/content/349/bmj.g5226

BMJ article emphasises need to treat patients who have symptoms of B12 deficiency even if B12 level is within range.

BNF

bnf.nice.org.uk/drug/hydrox...

BNF guidance on B12 treatment changed recently.

pernicious-anaemia-society....

NICE CKS

cks.nice.org.uk/anaemia-b12...

B12 books I found useful

"What You Need to Know About Pernicious Anaemia and B12 Deficiency" by Martyn Hooper

Martyn Hooper is the chair of PAS (Pernicious Anaemia Society). Book does not mention recent BNF change.

"Living with Pernicious Anaemia and Vitamin B12 Deficiency" by Martyn Hooper

Has several case studies.

"Could it Be B12?: An Epidemic of Misdiagnoses" by Sally Pacholok and JJ. Stuart (USA authors)

Very comprehensive with lots of case studies. There is also a paediatric version of this book "Could It Be B12? Paediatric Edition: What Every Parent Needs to Know".

Unhappy with Treatment (UK info)?

Letters to GPs about B12 deficiency

b12deficiency.info/b12-writ...

Lots of useful B12 info in above link.

CAB NHS Complaints

citizensadvice.org.uk/healt...

HDA patient care trust

UK charity that offers free second opinions on medical diagnoses and medical treatment.

hdapatientcaretrust.com/

With such a low B12 level originally I don't know why you are not on injections.

If B12 deficiency is untreated or under treated, there is a risk of permanent neurological damage. Is GP aware of this?

Neurological Consequences of B12 Deficiency

PAS news item

pernicious-anaemia-society....

PAS article about SACD, sub acute combined degeneration of the spinal cord, access to PAS members only.

pernicious-anaemia-society....

Blog post from Martyn Hooper's blog, mentions SACD

martynhooper.com/2010/09/21...

Link about writing letter to GP if under treated for B12 deficiency with neurological symptoms

b12deficiency.info/b12-writ...

I am not medically trained.

More b12 info in pinned posts on this forum.

[Sleepybunny]

Hi,

I read on one of your threads on another forum that you are not in UK.

Some on forum decide to self treat, I feel this is a last resort though.

In some European countries, it's possible to buy injectable B12 over the counter. I know this is possible in Greece.

Even if you are not in UK, your doctors may still be interested in reading UK B12 guidelines/articles.

Have you tried to find out if the country you are in has any national guidelines on how to treat B12 deficiency?

B12 Awareness (US website)

b12awareness.org/

Stichting B12 Tekort (Dutch b12 website, has English articles)

stichtingb12tekort.nl/weten...

[weazle74 in reply to Sleepybunny]

yes i can buy in cyprus too monday i will get first injection trying to find somebody to inject them

[marriewilliam]

Hey weazle, I am so happy that you are recovering day-by-day. I hope B12 MIC Shots works better for you. I tried it too and feeling very energetic throughout the day. Anyone who is looking for a liquid cocktail with sweet taste should Buy B12 MIC Lipo B Shots as it supports energy boosting and liver detoxification. I have purchased my bottle of Super MIC B12 from buymicb12.com/

[Hidden]

Mine was 415 or something. But I had also been taking a spray. If it helps it helps. They say to go by symptoms not results anyway. Glad you feel better. I felt better for a few days then felt weird leg feelings so I stopped but I've read now that that weird feeling may have been the b12 working and I gave up to soon. This time I have been taking it for three days and today since taking my dose no more ringing in my ears! Or much less anyway its hard to tell with the noise my fridge makes lol! I hope we both continue to fele better and better.