Pernicious Anaemia Society
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Hit a vein twice in a row. What's the odds?

Hi all. Last two times I have SI (i usually do it weekly) I have hit a vein and had quite a but of blood come out after taking the needle out. I also then get a hard lump and a bad bruise that lasts weeks. Do you think this is just an unhappy coincidence or something else? I have not changed anything. The only thing I can think of is that I have lost a few pounds in weight on the Keto diet and been working out more than usual. Any ideas?

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Ouch! acdoore probably just time and chance. Have you thought to do it subcutaneously?

I'm not medically trained - it's just a thought - and I have my injections from a nurse.

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Good advice cliveslive re subcutaneously!

Is there any reason you can’t do your own?

Don’t answer that if is too intrusive,

Take care

Melbourne/Girl

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I've been having B12 injections at the same practice for over 46 years and when I asked over 25 years ago if I could ask my wife to give them the doctor refused permission.

I'm not sure of the situation in the U.K. now but I think attitudes are still divided - some doctors will allow self injection - others won't.

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That is bizarre! If someone fronthat practice taught you until they were happy with your technique it would make it so much easier for you. Do you sometimes only go to the clinic for your injection? If the answer is yes could they be worried that some of their income would be less over the year with patients self injecting.

If you are happy to self inject or happy for yourself and your wife to learn (there may be some days you don’t feel well enough or vice versa) then maybe you could visit another clinic where they allow self injecting & still stay with your other Dr for everything else. Just a thought.

Good luck

Melbourne-Girl

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Yes it is a bit daft. We cannot even buy B12 injections over the counter and "self injectors" have to buy from abroad - mostly Germany.

Trying to get more frequent injections from our "one size fits all" doctors is like getting blood from a stone.

It's a good job diabetics are allowed to self inject their insulin. :)

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Hi I did much the same, two bruises still showing, approx 3cm from each other but done weeks apart.

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Oh, bad luck!

I inject every day and occasionally it happens. I think it's just chance.

If it happened to me two weeks running I probably won't notice because it would be 7 jabs apart.

Hopefully it means you've got two of these incidences out of the way and so won't be due another one for a long time!

Obviously monitor it and see how it goes next week and the week after. Any problems come back to us again.

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Hello! Are you able to offer a fellow daily SI advice? I have just been alternating between thighs. Top at the side where the squishy bit is. Do you move your injection site around more?

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Hi!

For ages (probably a couple of years) I used the same site on my legs but as my cognitive function and anxiety levels improved I realised that I didn't have to be quite so specific!

I also saw different nurses advocating slightly different places so I knew it couldn't matter that much!

I now use an area about 2 inches long down my leg and about and inch from side to middle, giving me at least a couple of square inches on each leg as a target area and I've got skinny legs. The needle always slides into new sites more easily.

We must always advise the use of 23G needles for safety's sake but I have changed to 26G x 1" needles from Exchange Supplies and find them much more comfortable.

Hope this helps you! Please ask again if you have any further questions.

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Thanks so much! I was worried that injecting in the same place over and over would do some damage but you’ve set my mind at rest. Thank you!

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There is no reason Dottyspotpot why you can’t give your B12 subcutaneously (just under the skin into a pinch of fat). You need a smaller needle for subcutaneous into your tummy but it should be a lot easier for you to give and you will not draw blood or go close to any nerves). You will see on this forum that I have explained how to do it if you are interested,

All the best

Melbourne-Girl

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Lumps and bumps are par for the course. I have bee lumped and bumped by the experts

One in particular who would qualify for the Javelin team Try Arnica, massage it in a couple of times a day.

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I reckon I get a drop (something large enough to run) about 1 in 20 jabs. So, for me, the odds of getting two in a row is about 1 in 400.

But I use the Z-Track method, which minimises bleeding. Without that it would be more common.

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Thanks all. I'm going on holiday in 2 weeks so I'm going to look lovely in my bathers haha. I will try arnica and try not to worry. I do find it off putting when u hit a nerve and it's only happened to me previously once in a year, but hopefully will have forgotten about the shock next week. I use an auto-injector which I have found brilliant for my pre-jab nerves. Thanks for all your wonderful advice as always x

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I was really self conscious and worried what it looked like but I discovered that no one else noticed.

Before I got treatment I bruised so easily and had such lousy balance and object avoidance I was always covered in bruises and people were always commenting then so I know if they saw it they did say!

Have a lovely holiday!

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acdoore have a wonderful holiday, you shouldn’t be getting those bruises if you get the smaller needles for your auto-injector & you get used to that technique which will be a lot easier for you

Take care xx

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Whoops, I had my alt day jab from the District nurse Sun 2ndOct. still got big bruise! She was vbery angry at having to do it," we don't do injections". Having waited a month to get this 2nd series of loading jabs, obviously the surgery needs more qualified people to administer this treatment. HCA can't do them here, they have to go on a course. I have had 4 different nurses , none of whom had any idea of B12 problems, and did'nt believe me when I tried gently to inform them. Thanks so much for this forum.

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That’s ridiculous jaybitd NHM. If she is a Divisional 1 Nurse she is quified to do all kinds of injections, some of the Divisional 2 ones are as well. Is it possible to do them yourself once a medical professional teaches you. If you see some of my posts here I have been in touch with people having problems giving their intramuscular injections into their thigh. B12 can be given intramuscular or subcutaneously (just under the skin in the tummy). Follow what I have written and go for the subcutaneous ones with the small needles. It will be easier for you to manage & not as painful.

Sorry you have come across medical staff with bad attitudes but getting the best medical outcome for you will make life a lot better. Is there any reason you are unable to give your own B12 if shown properly?

You are due for good attitudes from your medical staff so try & find a good if it is possible to do your own injections ((even if it isn’t you need a good nurse & Dr who have a good attitude & are there for you to give you the best medical treatment that they can & do eveypossible to make your life a little easier)

Good luck

Melbourne-Girl

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That’s bad luck acdoore. Where do give your sub cutaneous injections. The best place (unless you have a reason you can’t do it here) is on your tummy. You start just below the belly button (umbilicals) but out to your left or right side (I mean outside but still on your tummy.

The next one you give just below that and so on going in a semi circle below your belly button.

When you have done one semicircle inject nelow where you started your first semicircle & repeat process until you get back to position of your first injection & start it again. It will take a very long time to do this and you will never hit a vein or artery and it will stop the injection site getting sore. I don’t know if you have been given instructions to inject any where else in the body by your Dr then forget what I have written and tell your Dr & ask where to from here.

Not sure if there is any helpful advice here asbI don’t know what instructions you have been given.

Best of luck for a good outcome

Melbourne-Girl

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thanks for that advice melbourne-girl,i've just started injecting into my belly after messing up im jabs into my thigh due to a tremor in my hands and poor muscles(wastage)!a plus point is no stinging in fat with the salt preservative like muscles do,i don't mind if it takes a bit longer to get in bloodstream,at least it's got there and i feel more confident about injecting now

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Injecting in the tummy you are meant to pinch a bit of fat where you are injecting,, hope it makes it easier for you

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Hi there flosslechops (love the name) I am so glad that you are finding it easier to do your injections into your tummy! It must have been very difficult trying to do it into your thigh with some muscle wasting and tremors on your hands, it puts a smile on my face to know that the tummy injections are so much easier for you,

My best always

Suzee 🍀🍀🍀

M.G.

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thanks melbourne-girl(its after my dog,she's called flossie),a long needle and shakey hands is not a good combination!do you inject into your belly and if so has it been long term and have you had any problems at all,sorry for being nosey,only just started with this,and its made a huge improvement in the symptoms i've had all my life already

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flosslechops I think you may be still using the large needle for intramuscular use. You need a smaller needle for subcutaneous injestions so may have to get some smaller needles, tell your nurse or doctor so they ensure that you have the smaller needles for subcutaneous use. There will be no problems there about hitting a nerve or blood vessel.

Health wise I am glad it’s alteady making you feel better.

Stay well

Melbourne-Girl

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i will do that,thanks so much for your help

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In answer to your question sbout my health

Over 20 years ago developed a condition that inflames all of my connective tissue & causes pain, bone, muscle, tendons, ligaments, cartledge, muscle etc. sometimes most of those go into remission but there are always 4 of those area that never go into remissions. It can cause a build up of fluid in one of my inflamed & painfull areas too. At the moment my wrists, arms, hands & fingers are painful. If I ever have a lot of spelling mistakes thats the reason. As well as that I have been diagnosed with 3 types of arthritis which I am trying to work through with the Drs to get some help for these conditions. I have also had allergies sincec childhood that have become worse over time so have many allergies including to extrems of temperature (hot & Cold urticaria). My iron levels can drop away drastically & I have to go to hospital for an iron infusion intravenously. This can also happen to my

Vitamin D levels also. I think that’s most things

Best wishes always

Melbourne-Girl

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i'm sorry that your symptoms are so bad melbourne-girl,it's not easy to live with that,i hope you find an answer not too far in the future x

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Hi flosslechops,

My symptoms vary in how bad they are. The ones that are there all of the time I onle notice them if I bump into something & so I’m very careful as if I do that it really hurts. I don’t get too stressed about them as I know there are a lot of people who are worse off than me. I will sort out my arthritis ‘s with this Rheumo Prof that I am going to see and just make life as easy as I can, you can always find a way where things are a little easier.

I pick up some great ideas and tips on this forum it’s wonderful to have all of these different experiences people have & how they handle them. There are a great group of people here that share generously with us all,

Take care, xx

M.G. 🍀🍀🍀

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yes i agree,i would still be wondering what to do about si if not for this forum!new needles came today,5/8 th inch,27g,grey colour,terumo make,so much better than 25g orange ones i started with for sub cut,no wobbles either,thank you for the advice melbourne-girl

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Those needles sound perfect for you

Flosslechops, I am so glad they are making life easier for you,

M.G.xx

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Thanks. I do it in my thigh currently just from instructions from the forum. Maybe I need to try the tummy. I use an auto-injector can you still use that on your tummy? Also would I need different size needles? I use the orange ones at the moment, can't remember the actual size but I can check when I am at home

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acdoore the auto-injector should have a small needle in it if it’s meant to be subcutaneous.

That would be a 25 gauge needle but check with the pharmacy who supplies your product or your Dr & ask if it’s a sub cutaneous injecto, good luck!

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I have just realised if you were injecting into your thigh it would be a large needle for intramuscular use. Make sure you get a small needle for your auto-injector for subcutaneous injections in the tummy.

Let me know how you get on as B12 can be given as either intramuscular ( bigger needle) or subcutaneous (smaller needle for tummy).

No chance on hitting a nerve or blood vessel with subcutaneous. Hope it all becomes easier for you

Best wishes always

Melbourne-Girl

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Thank you. I think I will buy some shorter needles and try into the tummy then. I have enough tummy fat lol

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Same goes with the tummy fat, it’s a good thing for subcutaneous injections xx

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Orange needles tend to be used for subcutaneous. They are fairly short, maximum length 25 mm. That may be too short for IM injections for some people.

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fbirder our subcutaneous ones are 25 gauge, thanks& take care

Suzee (M.G.)

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The gauge refers to the diameter of the needle. A 25G needle can come in various lengths - normally 16 or 25 mm.

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If asking your Dr or Nurse or Pharmacist for a 25 gauge needle for giving a subcutaneous injection ask for the smallest length one suitable for giving B12 injections, it will be a lot easier & more comfortable, thanks fbirder,

All the best to those who are trying subcutaneous injections of their B12 for the first time’,

Melbourne -Girl xx

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Same thing happened to me today but only the second time in 8 months so not worrying to much !

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