Levels Of B12

[Jay-46]

What are the best levels of B12 what should they be for a person to be healthy?

[Secondchance]

Some countries apparently recommend over 500 as a natural level. Once treatment has started, it will be higher but that does not represent overdose.

[123harry]

the pa society say anything under 500 is low but recommend to be 1000 plus, it doesn't go on the serum b12 test alone though, recommendations are to treat the symptoms and not just go by the levels alone, every lab has different cut off points which are usually low and do not take into account your symptoms the drs have to do that but so often they are only going by bloods its very poor at times

[Jay-46 in reply to 123harry]

thank you harry Its like bashing our heads off walls at the minute, my b12 is 298 I suffer with dizzyness, bloating, headaches,I have had strokes, tiredness and fatigue, pap smears tested possitve years ago (resulting in hysterectomy which incidentally I had to have 3 pints of blood before the op ) which has caused me loads of problems since. I was always classed as 'being anaemic' in my younger years I wonder now have I had this problem for years. 

[Lisahelen in reply to Jay-46]

It does seem as though you need to push your gp to find out the causes of your symptoms as they might not necessarily be b12 related, especially as you have had previous health issues.

[Jay-46 in reply to Lisahelen]

I am seeing another GP soon I can't believe how I was dismissed at my last visit to say I was shocked and disgusted would be too polite. Thank you

[Polaris in reply to Jay-46]

With those symptoms and your low B12, research as much as you can Jay, as B12 deficiency is very common and causes a wide variety of symptoms that GPs generally are unfamiliar with if they have not read the latest research or guidelines.

This excellent film on the B12 deficiency website is a good start as  it explains that abnormal Pap smears are often one sign of deficiency.  B12 will also help lower homocysteine, which helps to prevent strokes.

youtu.be/BvEizypoyO0(Not working as expected?)

[Gambit62 Administrator]

To say that everyone who has a result under 500 is suffering from B12 deficiency is just as wrong as saying that nobody will have a B12 deficinecy if their result is above the bottom of the 'normal' range.

The 'normal range' is based on statistical distributions.  Some people - potential significant numbers - will fall outside the statistical ranges.  The chances of this get worse where the distribution is very broad - which is the case with B12.

So, the problem is people just going on figures and not understanding statistical distributions and the limits of using them, and the need to look at symptoms as well - particularly where distributions are broad.

There are a lot of people out there who will have levels of 268 and that will be perfectly adequate for them, but that doesn't mean it is adequate for you.

[Jay-46 in reply to Gambit62]

Thank you its a mine field, I think it should be up to proper trained people in this field of work not GP's. I believe the NHS needs to get a proper grip on this.

[Gambit62 Administrator in reply to Jay-46]

I'm not sure about 'trained people'.  GPs are trained - but the problem is that their understanding of statistics and the impact of that on interpreting results is generally pretty low.  It doesn't just apply to B12 deficiency - it applies to other conditions as well - and is probably one reason why so many people suffer with thyroid as well.  They need to be better trained regards the statistical implications of interpreting test results.

Also think that there is a lot that the guidance providers could do to highlight that.

[Jay-46 in reply to Gambit62]

I hear what you say Gambit62 does a haematologist understand because I'm considering asking to see one. Where do we go for a good understanding and a knowledge of this problem. It seems to me there's a brick wall up against it.

[Gambit62 Administrator in reply to Jay-46]

Unfortunately no guarantee with a haemo as stats aren't part of the core discipline - ancillary knowledge and skill set - like being able to treat patients like people ... and we all know that specialists (and GPs) aren't necessarily good at being able to treat patients like people

[Jay-46 in reply to Gambit62]

Thank you, I am taking Jarrow 5000 oddly enough I had 11 warts on my fingers, a verruca on my foot,  and another wart like growth at the side of my foot. I had had these for years since taking the B12 signs are looking good one of the warts on my index finger was like a small cauliflower  and disfiguring the nail along the nail bed and down the side of the nail bed amazing how its looking now after a few weeks of B12. I am sleeping 100% better too. Do you believe that this could have helped with this?

[Gambit62 Administrator in reply to Jay-46]

wouldn't put it past it being B12 - I had 4 decades of depression and anxiety before learning about B12 - really didn't expect getting enough b12 to sort that out but it did.

[fbirder]

The optimum level of B12 is one that gets rid of the symptoms of B12 deficiency.

[wedgewood in reply to fbirder]

Best bit of common sense that I've heard for ages!! 

[Jay-46 in reply to fbirder]

Thank you for this reply so why do they use a level in the first case?  Seems like shutting the stable door after the horse has ran out. Only the patient is the one who suffers. I'm really shocked at the findings about this.

[fbirder in reply to Jay-46]

For most medical problems measuring the levels of various chemicals does give you a pretty good idea as to what the problem is. Measuring somebody's Hba1c gives you a definitive diagnosis as to whether somebody is diabetic, prediabetic, or OK. Measuring iron and ferritin will tell you if somebody has iron-deficiency anaemia.

Medics get used to the idea that numbers never fail. Then they encounter B12 deficiency, where the two main tests (serum B12 and anti-IF) are not only quite inaccurate, but they interfere with each other. But most doctors don't know that - so they don't change their way of thinking.

[Jay-46 in reply to fbirder]

Thank you

[Polaris]

As defined in these extracts from the book, 'Could it be B12?' By Sally Pacholok & Dr J. Stuart :

"deficiencies begin to appear in the cerebral spinal fluid below 550 pg/ml." "For brain and nervous system health and prevention of disease in older adults, serum B12 levels should be maintained near or above 1000 pg/ml."

but

* There is no ideal test to define deficiency and therefore the clinical condition of the patient is of utmost importance." 

cmim.org/pdf2014/funcion.ph...

[Jay-46 in reply to Polaris]

Thank you