Is CBD Helpful, or Just Hype? - Parkinson's Movement

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Is CBD Helpful, or Just Hype?

MBAnderson
MBAnderson

"Here, the evidence is not going to make them happy. A 2017 study in JAMA reported that only 26 of 84 samples of CBD oils, tinctures and liquids purchased online contained the amount of CBD claimed on their labels. Eighteen of them contained THC, which could lead to intoxication or impairment in some individuals. And a quarter had less CBD than advertised. The F.D.A. has likewise found many products that did not contain the amount of CBD they were claiming."

nytimes.com/2018/12/26/opin...

47 Replies
oldestnewest

I tried CBD for pain and insomnia to no avail. Gave it numerous opportunities at different strengths as well. Felt mostly hype.

I tried CBD with THC 1:1 for insomnia and it worked great! But definitely intoxicating and would not recommend to anyone without prior experience with marijuana.

Hidden
Hidden

That article has a lot of generalizations in it and in general, I think some CBD products that are sold on line may have an issue with being exactly what they claim to be. I feel that product, tinctures, edibles and vapes from a dispensary are generally more reliable in terms of being what they claim to be or at least that has been my experience. I feel that some THC is needed in order to get the most potential benefits.

Saying that a CBD only product may have benefit for people with insomnia, is in my opinion, misleading. For me CBD seems to help with pain, but not sleep. Through all of my experimenting to date, the right combination of CBD / THC seems to offer the broadest health benefits, but the ratio will definitely very by individual and the bottom line for a "newby to MM" is that there is going to be a learning curve and a lot of experimentation in order to find the best ratio for you. With tinctures, experimenting can be easier because most tinctures come in "dripper bottles". Let's say you have a bottle of 30CBD : 1 THC and that you also have a bottle of 3 THC : 1 CBD. You can use the premarked dropper from each bottle and combine them to make your own custom blends or ratios. As a rough idea, let's say that you normally use 10 drops of 3THC : 1CBD or ten drops of 30CBD : 1THC, to good effect, but each tincture produces its own specific effects of which you would like to have all or most of those benefits at the same time. It may work out to try 5 drops of each tincture at the same time to create your 10 drop perfect mixture or it may be 6 + 4, 7+3, 8+2 or 9 +1, but once you find your most effective blend or ratio, that should be good for you for a very long time to come and will likely be worth the extra effort to find it!

Research on MM remains scarce, at least for good studies and product variability on the internet is a definite problem. Add in the legal issues and MM may not quite be ready for prime time yet, but as legalization and standardization increase, that prime time spot grows slowly closer. Look at how the use and knowledge about HDT has grown on this forum over the past year. Understanding about MM in all of its forms is increasing rapidly also and with increased legalization and standardization, MM may soon be a more viable option for more PWPs! Even tinctures can vary significantly based on what plant was used to make it. A tincture from a plant with a THC content of 33% is going to have different effects than a tincture made from buds that are 22% THC. Standardizing will go a long way in compensating for these variables and delivering uniform reliable products to the end user and the sooner the better!

Art

Deirdrez
Deirdrez
in reply to Hidden

I only buy from a dispensary with pharmacist advice. 1:1 seems to keep me going and focus throughout the day. I am much less rigid. I find the higher THC concentrations don’t seem to help that much for sleep. CBD:THC 10:1 also helps with rigidity and I use that late afternoon to night. All above mentioned are tinctures.

MBAnderson
MBAnderson
in reply to Hidden

Art,

1 of my daughters gave me a vape-er over the holidays, so I've been smoking for a few days. I don't even know what the rations are, but it seems to help a little bit and does help with sleep. This 1 has too much THC for my comfort.

So, it's not just the ratio of CBD to THC, but the strength of each has to be considered, too, of course?

MB, most Pot today is extremely high in THC content. Recommend starting with 1 draw. Wait 5 min. Then another or more if required. I use for sometimes recreational but mostly for sleep. If I take too much I get dizzy and uncomfortable. The right combo relaxes and cuts anxiety for me. Live in SoCal so ez to acquire. Use a vape for quick response but found 1:1 tincture with just a few drops extremely effective for sleep. One of my worst symptoms outside of tremor. Does nothing for my tremor.

Thank you, thank you.

Astra7
Astra7
in reply to ParlePark

Apart from symptom relief do you think it helps slow/ reverse progression?

ParlePark
ParlePark
in reply to Astra7

I don’t think at all.

Hidden
Hidden
in reply to MBAnderson

Hi Marc,

I have discussed the THC issue in a previous post and I will explain why I prefer a relatively high THC content for myself. With a high THC content, I only need to take two or three hits to get the desired effect, which for me is sleep. Since I smoke and used to vape, less smoke in my lungs per dose is just fine with me. If I go to a lower THC %, I will have to take more smoke in my lungs than with high THC content and my product lasts longer since I am using less per dose. The trick is to figure out what dose is the just right dose for you. The vape is much smoother than smoking and they have some vape cartridges now that don't have all of the chemicals in them. The vape is also more convenient than smoking because you don't even need a lighter!

I highly advise not to use the vape everyday if you are using it for the purpose of sleep. I'm not going to say it is addictive, but I will say that it can become like part of your going to sleep ritual. Also I feel that daily use can lead to tolerance which can mean that it may require increasing amounts to get the same effect. I prefer to reserve it for when I actually need to get a good nights rest and I have found by doing it that way, tolerance is less likely and it continues to be effective for the purpose.

Art

MBAnderson
MBAnderson
in reply to Hidden

Art,

I missed your previous post. (If you want to just tell me where it is instead of regurgitating the whole thing, that would be fine.)

Good point re with the smoke in lungs thing. My 1st puff Christmas day I thought I was going to cough my guts out.

I appreciate the advice in your 2nd paragraph. Overuse is a concern for me. Floating around with a light buzz on half the day is pretty nice, too nice - and here I'm supposed to be suffering. Seriously, it's too easy for me to like doing this every day. Problem is, if I have a cartridge sitting on the table, I pick it up too often.

Marc

Hidden
Hidden
in reply to MBAnderson

Finding that post would be very difficult! Did you forget where we are????😜😜😜

...cough your guts out....yeah you took a hit on that vape like it was a joint rolled in the late 1960's didn't you! MM is a whole new animal!

You are going to have to leave your vape in an inconvenient place so it is not so easy to pick it up and push that button!!! Will power is a must! I try to limit the number of days per week I will use it.

Art

MBAnderson
MBAnderson
in reply to Hidden

Aaaaaaaah, another great idea. The trunk of my car.

Hidden
Hidden
in reply to MBAnderson

Winter cold and summer heat could be a problem in the trunk of your car. The vape batteries have not shown themselves to be the most stable. I saw one news report where the guy had his vape in his pocket and it started on fire and then exploded....ouch!!!

Art

Kwinholt
Kwinholt
in reply to Hidden

Hi a 4:1 CBD/THC ratio tincture spray works great for me. It helps emmensily with pain and gives me overall calmness without being “high”. As far as sleep , I have no problem falling asleep but I do exercise a lot. K

ParlePark
ParlePark
in reply to Hidden

Couldn’t agree more

I have found that a 4:1 cbd/thc ratio spray tincture has helped me greatly with pain and over all calmness. I feel that there needs to be some thc with the cbd to be beneficial at least for me. I purchase from a well established dispensary not online . It is true you need to know how they create the products and what is added. Always educate yourself and never be afraid to ask questions . Karen

JANVAN
JANVAN
in reply to Kwinholt

Hi Karen !

Can you give me the name of that dispensary??

Thanks in advance !

Juliegrace
Juliegrace
in reply to JANVAN

In case Karen doesn't respond, she says the dispensary is not online and dispensaries in the US cannot ship from state to state or internationally.

Julie, perhaps you've explained this before, but the stuff they sell on Amazon or Charlotte's Web isn't real CBD oil?

Tinctures that are sold as MM or recreational (depending where you live) have different properties than the hemp CBD oils that are sold online. Those hemp CBD oils are not considered MM. What Karen (kwinholt) was referring to is something that is only sold in dispensaries and since MM is not legal on a federal basis, the dispensaries in states where it is legal cannot ship it out of state. At least that's how I understand it.

Kwinholt
Kwinholt
in reply to JANVAN

Hi I thought I had responded but didn’t see it. It’s called Abatin Wellness in Sacramento CA . Karen

Kwinholt
Kwinholt
in reply to JANVAN

Very educated and helpful .

JANVAN
JANVAN
in reply to Kwinholt

Thank you....well then, I have to take a holiday for two months or so to California.......

Kwinholt
Kwinholt
in reply to JANVAN

That would be wonderful for you. Have you been to California ? 😊

JANVAN
JANVAN
in reply to Kwinholt

NO, never been to California, like to do it........but........the financially situation is not anymore fantastic (two years ago I went (unfortunately) to Florida to Dr. Herman.........)

And I'm already for the probably one holiday possible for this year, I'm going to that

"clinic" in Northern Italy (also some posts about it), just some hours driving for me...........

I tried CBD Oil with a very low dose of THC. I did not get high but it did help me sleep. Bought it locally in so cal

My husband uses it with good results to control pain and, to some degree, tremors. It helps with all sorts of things, but only if it's formulated correctly. We get ours from Lazarus Naturals (and sometimes eBay). On Lazarus' site you can see the results of their quality testing for every batch made on the individual product pages as well as a lot of other helpful information on CBD in-general. lazarusnaturals.com/cbd-info/

We've found that the full spectrum tinctures are the best. There's no psychoactive components to their products that we've noticed, since if there's any THC in them it's so small as to not have an impact. The RSO (Rick Simpson Oil) is very strong and used by many people to control seizures without adverse side-effects, with small children needing only a few drops to be seizure free all day! All of this just to say do your research and buy only high quality, tested products and judge for yourself whether or not you benefit from this plant. Hope this helps : )) ~Mary

What is meant by full spectrum? Thank you!

Hi, Connie: Full spectrum means that ALL of the cannabis compounds from the plant are extracted and in the product, whereas isolate contains only the CBD from the hemp. Here's a link with more info: lazarusnaturals.com/cbd-iso...

~Mary

I really appreciate the info Mary, thank you!!

Hi MBAnderson >>> do you something more about that guy in that amazing video ??

Larry was his name.......it has been for a whil quiet, hasn't it ?

A also will post something about that Chinese (Zen.....etc.) herbal mix you asked for....., there is a possible that a western acupuncturist (who has lived several years in China) can make it for me..........

But now I have to work (difficult situation still for me (more weakness, stiffness) after a bad 1.Januar (the little one glas of wine, the salmon the day before, the travelling stress ??)

Keep me remembering to post about that Chinese herbal mix, when I don't do it the next days !

MBAnderson
MBAnderson
in reply to JANVAN

Which video are you referring to re Larry?

JANVAN
JANVAN
in reply to MBAnderson

This Larry .....>>>>

m.facebook.com/story.php?st...

MBAnderson
MBAnderson
in reply to JANVAN

Indeed, an amazing video. I don't have any more information on Larry, but there are several videos on YouTube like that one.

Clearly, some CBD oil is beneficial to a lot of PWP. You're right, the trick is finding the right blend. When I'm in Minnesota, I can't get MM or CBD, but I'm in Florida now where I can get it. I've been to 3 dispensaries in the last week. Problem is, Florida limits the number of doctors who they will license to prescribe it, so a visit just to get the prescription, not the product, is $500 - and in some of these dispensaries, these doctors are writing 10 to 20 prescriptions a day spending 10 to 15 minutes with each patient.

You would have to be a complete and total asshole to need $5000-$10,000 per day prescribing marijuana to PWP. That's what for-profit healthcare does.

I've recently come to more fully appreciate the important role stress management plays, so I hope you're able to find some techniques and supplements that help. I believe in some circumstances, stress can cause Parkinson's and it worsens symptoms in most PWP.

Think I'll chime in. My leg/glute pain has really rebounded lately. I bought some non thc cbd oil yesterday to try. The kid in the shop was very knowledgeable. He said try 3/4 of the dropper for the first dose and 1/2 a dropper the next day etc. Took my first dose and although there was allegedly no thc i still felt a nice buzz. Then all i wanted to do was eat donuts and sleep. Didnt do much for the pain. Had a good effect on anxiety too. I slept very well.

Hidden
Hidden
in reply to bassofspades

bass,

last time you had this pain, I'm not positive, but it seems like it was possibly related to your HDT dose being a smidgen high? If that is correct, perhaps it is still a little high?

On a related note, have you tried mag oil for the leg/glute pain?

Art

ConnieD
ConnieD
in reply to Hidden

I live in NY state and have had an MM card for the last several months. My neuro didn’t order it, I could be wrong but you need to see someone who is specially licensed to write prescriptions for it. My cousin has suffered with terrible back pain and MM has been a lifesaver for him. He gave me the name of the nurse practitioner who he thought was great. What surprises me is the cost. Initial visit with practitioner was $250 (takes only cash) every 3 months it’s $100 to revisit and get another prescription. I literally just came home and for a small tincture bottle with higher THC and a bottle of 20 cbd capsules I just paid $145. Nothing is covered by insurance at least mine doesn’t.. I asked today how do things change if it becomes legal in my state and she said there would be a recreational side of the dispensary where you could buy edibles etc. and a medical side. She said you’re lucky to have a card the medicinal is higher grade and will be 20 percent cheaper! I’m shocked it’s so expensive, I don’t know how long I could afford it. I’m fortunate my mom is helping me at the moment. I do think the higher THC helps my dyskinesia some and the cbd helps my anxiety too but as Art said I don’t take it everyday. I’ve never smoked regular marajuana might try the pen down the road. The pharmacist said in his experience the higher THC helps tremors with Pd and thought it may help dyskinesia which I think it does. I almost have to laugh when I read the instructions on the bottle “take one capsule 3X a day.” I only take one and with only 20 pills not everyday, you would think you’d get 30 at least. Talk about a money maker.

Hidden
Hidden
in reply to ConnieD

Where I am, the product is a little cheaper, however they charge a tax of at least 30%!!!! Yes, 30%! I was shocked when I found this out. I think the only way to get MM at a reasonable price is if you grow your own plants and make your own MM products. Here they allow you to grow a limited number of plants, so I will look into that possibility at some point. The prices seem to be based on whatever the traffic will pay!

The industry on the whole is in a state of flux and going through growing pains and I suspect it will be like this for the next five years at a minimum while the powers that be figure out a way to maximize prophets and make more uniform products.

Art

MBAnderson
MBAnderson
in reply to Hidden

Art, where do you live?

Hidden
Hidden
in reply to MBAnderson

In the US in California.

ConnieD
ConnieD
in reply to Hidden

30% tax that’s outrageous! If it becomes legal in NYS I’ll have to look into if it’s legal to grow your own plants, I’m terrible with plants, but my husband and in-laws from Italy have a green thumb! 😊

bassofspades
bassofspades
in reply to Hidden

Art your memory is sharp! I did cut down b1 from 4g a day to zero for 2 weeks then to 1g a day for a month. I upped it to 2g a day just this week. I have eliminated b1 as the cause of the pain. I still douse myself in mag oil but it doest really help. I suspect im having what's known as extinction bursts, which is when tms pain is getting ready to give up, it throws a final tantrum.

Hidden
Hidden
in reply to bassofspades

' My memory is sharp ', ha, it must be the vinpocetine!

I have never heard that term, "extinction bursts", before. Interesting! Tantrum or not, let's hope it hits the road! Did the ibuprofen topical lotion have any effect on the pain? If not I can recommend a product to try that may be helpful if the pain doesn't get lost soon!

Art

Hidden
Hidden
in reply to bassofspades

bass,

I forgot to mention that sometimes this pain can originate in the mid to lower spine and that it wouldn't hurt to apply whatever pain reliever there or ice that area to see if it reduces the pain. Icing is a very potent anti inflammatory that may help you to pinpoint the origin of the pain.

Art

bassofspades
bassofspades
in reply to Hidden

Ice is nice!

Eat donuts and sleep. Ha. A sure sign of THC.

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