false claims, the indignity or proving 'how we suffer' to compensate for the people that jumped on the band wagon?
Would be interested in any truthful reply. Thinking of getting a group together to be constructive and hopefully end some misery of the genuine people in pain.
The Government made a total mess of the first phase, the second isn't much better, and many of us waiting months for a review.
How many will lose their homes, suffer hardship, basic things like dentistry will go, food and even medication is unaffordable.
Shall we come together and support the genuine?
Am not politically orientated, just after a fair deal for those who suffer.
Backisbad
Written by
backisbad
To view profiles and participate in discussions please or .
Not quite sure what you are asking. Genuine claimants? Jumping on band wagon? Who are you refering too?
Everyone who submits a claim for disability benefits needs medical evidence to substantiate that claim.
There is a huge backlog at present of claims for PIP due to DWP demanding every claimant has to have a face to face assessment. That has now changed in recent days with new guidance havimg been issued. it seems now a paper based assessment will be accepted.
There are many support groups who can help with the paper wrok and support any with disability or long term health conditions.
Was making reference to the many people whom had claimed disability/sickness benefit Whilst working, or exaggerating their condition in order to claim benefits. Thereby, the 'genuine' having to go through hoops just to ascertain they too were not making false claims.
Agree, there are many support groups, however , was just suggesting that we could support each other, lots of people on here are having difficulties whist waiting for their claim to be assessed.
The intention being support for the genuine , not people who read sites like this and learn how to play the system. Sadly, I know of at least one person that has learnt of my problems and used my condition to gain benefits, call me cynical, however, it is difficult for the assessment team to make true whom is genuine. Which leads me back to why most of us are having a hard time proving how ill we are!
It is a hard enough life coping with constant and at times chronic conditions without having to go 'cap in hand' and often humiliating and embarrassing situations justifying yourself when the 'false have claimed'.
Just wanting to have a support group on here and offer a 'helping hand'. Is all.
I'm with you backisbad. I found it miserable to apply for pip with all the explanations I had to give about how awful it is. It was a big decision to accept I am disabled by my condition. It took me a long time to decide to apply because of the stigma of people claiming when they don't really need to!
Hi rowantree, thankfully you understood my intention. It is a lonely place to have to go and explain how vulnerable and unwell you are. I know many have made false claims and was mortified to be 'classed amongst that group'
I accept my condition because like yourself, have no option, however, am shamed too, I never, ever wanted to have this kind of health or lifestyle.
Thank you for your support.
Appreciate it and wish you all the very best. Hope it works out well for you.
Hi Backisbad, I appreciate what you are trying to get over to the group, but one would hope that all claimants are genuine, surely no one would want to go through the assessment rigour for benefits if they could manage to work and get about. Even those who do work do so with discrimination and lack of understanding of the difficulties posed in carrying out tasks when in pain or disabled, they are still entitled to disability benefits like the old DLA or new PIP. I have been a pain sufferer since around 1990, I worked with that plus other problems as a disabled worker, but did not receive DLA till I was no longer able to work. I still receive DLA as a registered disabled pensioner. I currently pay for acupuncture at £33 a session for pain, I can walk but not pain free but people still treat you as jumping on the bandwagon to put it in your words because I do not use mobility aids like a wheelchair or scooter. They judge by what they see not the reality of invisible illness. I also have COPD amongst other things and my pain is from early hereditary onset Arthritis. The proposed Government changes are very unfair and will even penalise the severely disabled as well as forcing may independent disabled to become isolated. As for pain sufferers I think there should be more pain awareness clinics and groups plus more alternative treatments other than long term pills. Hope this gives you some incite into other peoples pain dilemmas there are millions of us out there.
Agree, one would hope all claimants are genuine, however, that is so obviously not the case. I cannot give the exact figure of those that a) never turned up for the first interview, b) lied and have been found guilty, c) work at home or abroad. The name and shame is a good system, methinks just the tip of the iceberg.
Am grateful to you for your informed comments and just makes me more aware of how much support and help we all need.
Everyone genuinely ill/disabled needs extra care, not just peanuts on a bird tray.
The thought of disabled people becoming more isolated is very worrying.
Thank you for your comments I read every word, am a chronic pain sufferer too. 40 years and counting!
Backisbad
Hi backisbad, I had an awful experience with ESA claim, I had no money for 6months, and had to go to the local food bank at Christmas. I feel I'm constantly trying to Prove I'm unwell. Also being assessed by people who do not know about Fibromyalgia,ME or sleep apnea!
The Citizens Advice have a campain running at the moment, go to their website to find out more.
As for pip, well, still waiting.
I'm loosing a job I loved going to every morning, it's devastating. I had a good wage too. I don't want to be like this.
am that sorry to here of your problems, how awful that you had to go through that, I know how you constantly have to prove how unwell you are, that is why I started this thread so that we have empathy with each other.
I was in the same boat myself, good job, salary beyond my expectations, company car then bang, ill health, I was a one parent family with a mortgage, all over in a heartbeat . Monies dropped thirteen thousand and am talking twenty years ago.
I hope that it gets sorted for you, it is devastating, wishing you well.
Hi Ali, sorry you are going through the problems of illness and it's affects on income, quality of life, and peoples insensitive attitude. Thank you for the info about Citizens Advice Campaign. In our city we have 15 food banks a sign of the changing times. And Ali I've been that destitute on more than one occasion in the past so appreciate how you feel. I hope things get better for you soon especially the health matters. Best wishes
I think katieoxo60 and paton misunderstand what you mean about jumping on band wagon ext. Backisbad is not accusing people on here. It's the many people who have claimed disability ext when they are not disabled. It is because of them that the system at the moment is in such a mess
Hi there, I was refused ESA. They only want to know how far you can walk, they don't care that every step you take is agony. It's a c*** system that is generalised, not holistic.
I have set up a Facebook page called Getting Chronic Pain on the Map, and I'm trying to get chronic pain in the media and talked about. I'm also looking to highlight the poor care and treatments we get and try and improve it.
Please like my page and put on a post about this on there, to try and get more responses. I'm happy to partake for you too.
There aren't huge numbers of false claimants in fact. Tax dodgers who are already wealthy are taking more from us all. Of course it's blinking political! Politics affect everything.
I fully agree. I had a DLA Tribunal hearing last week & felt the panel were just looking for a reason to say NO. Suffering long term chronic pain is hard enough, without having to prove that to any government body.
As you say it's the ones who know how to work the system that get all the benefits. But if you tell the truth decision makers just don't get it. I am lucky I have a very understanding GP and now have a support team I can talk to - with no judgements made.
I would support any group aiming to change the system - for the better.
I totally agree with you, It isn't a pleasant experience, any hearing is like 'you are on trial' Am so pleased to hear you have support from your team,
I would have thought that in some cases ( forty years and counting) of pain and incapacity is enough, apparently not.
Welcome your support, and hopefully will talk again.
I use DLA to pay for private health treatment. The treatment keeps me moving. PIP will remove the money I use for paying for private Health treatment. I have looked at the PIP rules. It has recognition for people who cannot be bothered to seek out medical treatment which helps their condition. It rewards those who cannot be bothered with payments.
The backlog in PIP means that I have not been accessed yet. It is unlikely that PIP will consider that I am entitled to it.
Am sorry to hear that johnsmith, sounds like you have 'tried the right way forward' sadly, it hasn't done you any favours. I wish you well in receiving PIP, surely anyone would appreciate you paying privately means you are doing your very best to help your own condition!
It is very hard to get a balance in receiving what people are entitled to, and should get, specifically to pay for splints, acupuncture, steam rooms etc to manage our pain. It would almost make more sense to get money to spend in these particular things instead of PIP to spend how you want. In one way it's nice not to have to justify everything you spend it in, but the other side of that is that people see it as so etching to try to get if they can.
No one asks for physio if they don't need it. If I get PIP I will be spending it on swimming, ring splints, prescription costs, and alternative therapies to help me manage the daily chronic pain. I work full time. I really want to continue to do that, and if splints etching can help me manage my pain better, I can continue to work.
There seems to be confusion here as to which benefit is being discussed.
ESA which is the out of work benefit split into WRAG where people will recover from their illness and return to work.
ESA support where you will not recover.
PIP which is paid to anyone with a disability or chronic illness whether you are in or out of work as long as you meet the criteria.
The whole of the welfare reforms system is in a complete mess under this coalition and if you understood what they are trying to do it would make your hair curl. We are all in the same boat unfortunately and it is going to get a lot worse.
The percentage of fraudulent claims amongst all disability benefots is the lowest of all benefits at 0.05.
Whether you get any of these benefits has absolutely nothing to do with how many fraudulent claims are made. DWP do not have a pot of money shared between us all.
Listening to this thread saddens me because it sounds like too many have listened, and believe, the government propaganda about disabled and chronically sick people. Everybody knows someone who is making a false claim. How do you know what their condition is? Are we all experts all of a sudden? We can 'see' their hidden pain or illness?
There are many of us who have spent more years than we would have lied fighting sucessive government over the treatment and allowances sick and disabled people received. I could write pages.
Please don't believe what you hear in the daily Mail and use what ehergies you have to support campaign groups.
If you fill in your claim forms with all the evidence and support it with medical evidence you have a much better chance or getting an award rather than expecting the assessors to understand.
A support group is an excellent idea but please make it that - support and not criticising others who may have hidden disabilities.
Just for information - I have been blind for 30 years but to look at me you would say I was 'normal'
Am not sure where your coming from! an innocent thread about supporting each other on here has gone way out of control, touched areas that I wasn't discussing and developed into a thread about something read in the 'Daily mail'. Have never read the paper.
Government records show the amount of 'non attendant' interviewees, initially, fact 'not tabloid fodder' .
Am even more confused when you write 'we would have lied fighting successive governments' in genuine interest was that a typo?
I repeat, was suggesting a support group, someone else is on the case and am happy for it.
Was trying to help anyone that was alone and needed support.
I really do not want to get bogged down in 'who said' who did' I know situation.
Apologise, acknowledge you are blind, however preferred to write what I felt and not patronise you by amending my reply re typo.
It was never my intention to put a dampner on your enthusiasm. It was some of the words - bandwagon for one. Implying that sick and disabled people cheat the system.
Government facts' are usually anythig but - that people withdraw before going through an assessment is for many reasons. Main ine being they get better or find a more suitable benefit.
People seemed confused about which benefit they are on and I was trying to point out the different ones.
Support from peers is mch needed for everyone as only like minded understand what we are going though but please be aware of the underlying reasons why the Welfare Reform Act has gone through so speedily and virtually unchallenged.
CP sufferers have little spare energies and corret information will help to use that energy in the best possible way.
How much a non 'face to face' discussion can be misconstrued. Like Texting emails show no emotion or thoughts.
'Bandwagon' was intended for those that have made a living out of using illness as an excuse not to work. I know from my working life how much that has happened. I managed an employment training scheme/yts and job club. Am no way saying most people are pretending, sadly, aware of those that do/have and how difficult it makes life for the genuine to explain every detail.
Have met some very genuine ill people in my work environment, and feel somewhat sad they had to go through hoops to prove it. In fact am cross on their behalf.
"Everybody knows someone who is making a false claim. How do you know what their condition is? Are we all experts all of a sudden? We can 'see' their hidden pain or illness?"
No one walks in another's shoes.
We are quick to assume the worst.
We are all and I mean all trying to do the best we can with what we have been given.
It is hard and frustrating and positivity depressing. To be dealt a cramp hand in life.
19 June 2014 Last updated at 21:38 Share this pageEmailPrint
ShareFacebookTwitter
ESA sickness benefit is 'failing', government documents say
Documents say the rising cost is "one of the greatest fiscal challenges" facing the government as a whole
Continue reading the main story
Related Stories
Thousands hit by benefits backlog
Atos warning over work fitness tests
'Distress' at disabled claim delays
The key sickness benefit is helping fewer people get jobs, while its rising cost is a big financial risk for the UK, internal government memos say.
The memos, obtained by the BBC, say the Department for Work and Pensions is struggling to deliver employment support allowance (ESA).
ESA was introduced in 2008 to replace incapacity benefit.
The government acknowledged there had been problems but said it was bringing in a new firm to do tests for ESA.
The documents - which include six memos written by civil servants and advisers - also say claimants face an average nine-month wait after assessments. The target is three months.
'Not delivering'
Julie Newman, UK Disabled People's Council: "The government seems to be very confused about what outcomes they want"
ESA is intended for people who are unable to work due to sickness or disability. Claimants undergo tests, called work capability assessments, before learning whether they are eligible.
The memos say that ESA "is not delivering more positive outcomes for claimants" than incapacity benefit did.
The payment's costs are expected to rise by almost £13bn by 2018/19, the documents say, warning the increase is "one of the largest fiscal risks currently facing the government".
The benefit is becoming a "long-term destination" for too many people, they say, and more people than expected are becoming eligible for it.
This is thought to be partly due to restrictions on jobseeker's allowance leading to an increase in ESA claimants.
Staff 'vilified'
A key aim of the benefit is to get people off welfare and into work, but the documents say this appears to be happening less than under incapacity benefit (IB).
"Employment outcomes actually appear lower than under IB", they say, and the "wider policy problems facing ESA will persist" despite the change in the company in charge of the assessments.
Earlier this month the government said more than 700,000 people were waiting for an assessment, blaming the delays on Atos, the private contractor currently carrying out the tests. Ministers say Atos had a backlog of 200,000 when the government came to power.
Atos, which has agreed to end its contract early, has said its staff have been "vilified" and abused for doing what was asked of them by ministers.
Mike Penning, the minister for disabled people, said: "We do have problems with the ESA assessment."
He said it was "something we inherited" from the previous Labour government - "but we are doing everything we can to address [it] which is why I've negotiated Atos out of the contract and we're bringing in a new provider so we make sure that we can have proper flow of the benefits coming through."
Mr Penning said he did not recognise the comments about financial risk to the government.
ESA is "fit for purpose", he said, adding: "It needs to evolve, it needs to change as we go forward and we need to make sure we get the right decisions - as in any other benefit - the right money goes to the right people and that's what the taxpayer would expect us to do."
Nearly two million people are currently claiming ESA, which entitles them to just over £100 a week.
Work capability assessments are carried out both on new claimants and those in receipt of incapacity benefit before they are moved to ESA.
Some of those deemed eligible for the payment are given regular interviews to help them find work, depending on their level of disability.
Shows that the govt has lost control and we are the ones paying the price
Wow! that is informative, not surprised, however, disappointed. Have not received a penny since March, still waiting many months later for assessment..............On a personal level, am currently on 27 meds a day, awaiting further surgery for heart and spinal condition, perhaps there is something am unaware of!
Just for information I had an interview last June at the local 'Job Centre' and was informed verbally and by email, that due to my condition, no further interview was required. Mmmmmmmmmmm, still not eligible/waiting tactics/not ill enough/what is the criteria? How ill does one have to be?
On a sarcastic note, I quote ' we will endeavour to make sure those vulnerable and suffering ill health will benefit from the new system'
Well it isn't happening to me, is it to someone else?
I like many of us here, have been unfairly treated,denied disability benefits, incapacity benefit, faced long delays after application for pip (still ongoing) as well as the appeal for DLA.
I feel as though the govt could not care less about the plight of long term pain sufferers like myself. Despite all the efforts of trying to live as normal a life as possible the pain and countless surgery and procedure, I have come to terms with the fact that I will never be pain free for the rest of my life.
What I want to do is manage my life as best as I can and get on with singing as and when I can as it is therapeutic and I give people joy through my performance, the problem is the pain is so bad I cannot perform regularly, only when the pain is bearable.
Each case must be looked at in isolation and judged on its merit,the length of time the decision takes is a serious issue.They took the mobility car from me 12/12/2014 and it has made me a recluse as getting around is near impossible, have had to take taxi to hospital,surgery and counselling appointments.
Am so sorry to hear that, am appalled they took your mobility car from you.
Agree with you , every case is individual and needs careful consideration.
Let's be clear here, medication is expensive, why would GP's prescribe expensive meds 'out of their budget' to a time waster?
Like yourself and many others, I too, accept 'pain is a part of my life' it affects so many things I cannot do.
In a quiet moment, I reflect and will say, How can a politician on their salary/lifestyle have any idea how the rest of us manage. I do not know how they have any concept of a budget. The majority 'if not all' have private insurance. Not mentioning the salary, expenses etc.
Hey ho, another soldier, lets support each other and battle on.
We never know, we might have an additional income for stress caused by waiting for a decision!.......................... In our dreams or America!
Content on HealthUnlocked does not replace the relationship between you and doctors or other healthcare professionals nor the advice you receive from them.
Never delay seeking advice or dialling emergency services because of something that you have read on HealthUnlocked.
Please can anyone recommend supports and tips for preventing sciatica when getting on/off the loo and in/out of the car?
Chronic Pain, and Negative Thoughts
How to cope with Christmas Holidays
