anyone tried using Collagen peptides 1 & 3 to increase bone density? Research in 2018 and 2021 research showed promise and increase in bone density after 1 year of collagen peptides 1&3 taking 5 grams per day. Anyone else tried this or read this? Any positive results on your own Dexa?
Use of Collagen Peptides for bone hea... - Osteoporosis Support
Use of Collagen Peptides for bone health and increase density.
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dcdream
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After taking Marine Collagen for 1.5 years my DEXA went up by 0.4. I had added other things to my routine like taking calcium, vitamin d3, and magnesium, doing Pilates, and exercising with weights and bands. I was also losing calcium thru the urine so my doctor put me on a water pill. I don't know exactly what helped me so I'm not changing anything and hopefully in another year and a half my numbers will go up again. Collagen won't hurt you and I think it's worth a try. Good luck!!
Both the studies on it show an increase in bone density. I'm doing a very similar plan as yours but just started on the collagen this week. Keep us posted if this continues, as the research also demonstrated the longer you take it, the better the results over time. The second research study was for 4 years of use.
When you did your 24 hour urine test to see if you were losing too much calcium, what did you have to do to prepare for that, meaning did you have to stop taking calcium supplements beforehand and during?
how many tablespoons or scoops do you do of marine collagen per day ?
the research going on now, uses .5 which is what I'm taking. I figured I would stay with what the researcher is using.
.5 is .5 of what ?
5 grams. The research that is currently in progress has its participants taking 5 grams per day of collagen. Since the study has positive results at 5 grams, that's what I take. The powder has a scoop for 10 grams, so I just use half a scoop. Many folks take 20 grams per day as many of the products suggest, but I'm taking 5 grams since that's what researchers are using in their 4 year project/research on this. Initially they used it only 1 year but the results were so positive, they are doing 4 more years of testing. We'll have 5 years of said research to see if taking that daily is effective, increases density and is safe long term.
Can you tell me what brand of collagen? There are so many out there it is really confusing.
Instaskincare, sold on Amazon. Collagen Peptides Powder for Women Hydrolyzed Collagen Protein Powder Types I and III Non-GMO Grass-Fed Gluten-Free Kosher and Pareve Unflavored Easy to Mix Drink Healthy Hair Skin Joints Nails 1Lb. There are many on amazon to choose from based on your needs and budget. Some feel the marine collagen peptides is better. Lots of different opinions on which one to buy.
I've been taking Mulit-Collagen Peptides (1,2,3, 5 & 10 bovine) 8 grams a day for about a year, but also not alone. I take Vit D3 (50 mcg), K2 (150 mcg MK4&7), Melatonin (5mg) and alendronate (Fosamax). Like pink9182, I also have too much calcium in my urine but instead of a water pill, doc has me on a low-calcium diet! My next DXA is in March, but I don't expect to learn much from it, given all the confounding variables. So, I'm sorry I can't help, but I agree with pink9182 -- research shows that collagen is also good for your skin as well as being a source of pure protein (I add it to my oatmeal instead of whey protein), so it's not a bad idea to take it. Keep us posted on what (if anything) works for you!
Thanks for your input
My endocrinologist has never done nor suggested doing a urine test to check for calcium loss. Do you think this is a worthwhile test to have done? I was told by another doctor, not my endocrinologist, that the test is seen as outdated and doesn’t provide helpful info, but it seems that many doctors still do it and I thinking about telling him I want to have it done.
Thanks for sharing -- I have not looked into whether 24 hour urine is currently considered a useful test with osteoporosis, but my doctor is supposed to be UCLA's best osteoporosis doc, so I'm guessing she's up on it. Regardless of why she ordered it, her main concern with my high levels is the risk of kidney stones. She said I could either reduce my calcium intake to just 300 mg a day, or I can take diuretics (Thiazide). I chose the former. My next DXA is in March. But I'm also on Alendronate, so the variables are confounded (sigh).
Thank you. Based on your response, I’m thinking it’s worth my pursuing the test. Unfortunately, my endocrinologist leaves a lot to be desired. You are lucky to have an awesome doctor and I understand your decision not to take another med. When possible, I prefer to avoid prescriptions.
Earlier this month, I had my 1st bone turnover marker tests at my request—still waiting on results. My endocrinologist doesn’t seem to have any advice or suggestions except for prescription meds and I feel like I’m having to do all the work.
My next DEXA is in a week. Nervous and excited. Trying to mentally prepare myself in case there is no improvement (or worse a decline). I’ve changed so many things, diet, supplements, exercises, etc. and I had a zoledronic acid infusion just over 1 year ago. I’m kind of expecting my bones to have improved so I’m having to remind myself that if they haven’t that at least I tried. I was planning on having my DEXA last Monday but it took me 3 months to find an imaging center that can do TBS (trabecular bone scan/score) with my DEXA and get an appt scheduled. The imaging center is in my state, so it’s covered by my insurance, but it’s a 4 hour drive. I’m hoping the TBS provides a bit more insight into the health of my bones.
Best wishes for good results. I would think the infusion will show some improvements. Keep us posted if you don't mind sharing. My doctor suggested this year I have the infusion as well but I am having dental work done first before I consider such a move.
• in reply toFearFracture
That's great you found a facility with TBS software on their DEXA scanner. Do keep in mind that when you change facilities, your scores can differ some due to a different machine being used from previous scan. If possible, continue to have future scans at the same facility to remove that variable from your BMD results. I didn't know about TBS or bone turnover markers until after I suffered 5 pelvic fragility fractures in my mid-50s from doing home PT resistance band exercises. My 2 DEXA scans prior to fracturing showed I was in osteopenic range (not osteoporotic range). After learning of TBS, I switched imaging facilities and learned my TBS scores were in -4s to -5s (BMD T scores were -1.6 to -2.5). So my bone *quality* was much worse than my bone density. I also learned that a huge percentage of fragility fractures occur in people who have osteopenia (vs. osteoporosis).
Good luck with the new facility & wishing you good results!
dcdream• in reply to
That is an interesting comment about folks fracturing with osteopenia at higher rates than folks with osteoporosis.
• in reply todcdream
Yes - many are not aware of this. It is in the new 2022 Clinician's Guidelines posted by Mark_ABH. I already had read about this finding earlier this year - and I am a textbook case. Bone density is only part of the equation - bone quality/micro architecture is the other part. My bone quality is much worse than my density and I've had 5 fragility fractures. I highly recommend that folks get a DEXA with TBS if possible - and continue using the same facility. If my baseline (or even my 2nd) DEXA had been with TBS, perhaps I could have been treated before having multiple fractures in a short time, as I would have known my bone quality was so poor.
FearFracture• in reply to
The new imaging facility finally figured out how to use their Hologic DEXA scanner with TBS capabilities and today in the mail, I received my TBS score. For my L1-L4 my trabecular bone score is 1.287. The results I received state that "Spine TBS L1-L4 normal microarchitecture > 1.31; Degraded = or < 1.23." My 1.287 TBS is .023 below 1.31 and .057 above 1.23 so unless someone knows of other information that I need to consider, I'm taking this a positive. I didn't expect my TBS to be perfect. Not that lower end seems like a good sign to me.
This info comes from a Hologic scanner and the t-scores are lower than on my GE Lunar scan. The 2 scans were done one week apart. I knew that the data on the two scans couldn't be compared but I also read somewhere on-line that although the GE Lunar and Hologic machines will give different BMD numbers that the t-scores should be the same. In my case they are not and I am wondering why.
FearFracture• in reply to
I knew that there could be a difference in scores, meaning I know that they recommend using the same scanner for all of your DEXAs. I also had a scan done on the scanner that I had used in the past. The results for all of my DEXAs done on the GE Lunar scanner are posted here:
healthunlocked.com/boneheal...
The appt I had for a DEXA with TBS was on a Hologic scanner so I also knew that would make it difficult/impossible to compare the data but it is my understanding that the difference is in the BMD g/cm sq. and that the T-scores should be the same or very close.
When I walked in the room to get the scan on the Hologic with TBS capabilities, the technician said that they might not be able to give me a TBS score. I'd driven 5 hours to be told that. LOL. I went ahead with the scan and then I day later I got the summary--VERY BAD DAY. There was no TBS and my t-scores were lower than the t-scores on my July 2021 scan, actually they were lower than my t-scores on my July 2019 scan, both of which had been done on the same GE Lunar.
The numbers I have so far from the Hologic compared to the GE Lunar scans both done this year 1 week apart.
December 2022
Hologic Lumbar Spine -4.0
GE Lunar Lumbar Spine -3.6
Hologic Left femoral neck -3.3
GE Lunar Left femoral neck -3.0
The ONLY good news I got from the Hologic scan, if you can call it good news, is that my left one third radius can in with a t-score of -2.3!!! Hooray!!! Osteopenia LOL. My doctor ordered and I asked prior to being scanned on the GE Lunar a scan of my forearm but the technician said they could do it unless I had fractured--whatever.
I am petite, 4'11" and am not heavy. I'm trying to find out if the Hologic was programmed to consider my size.
I have been planning on just going with the GE Lunar being right because I really don't know what else to do, partially for my sanity. LOL. If the Hologic is right, it kind of implies that in 2019 instead of the GE Lunar Lumbar T-score of -3.9, my t-score was in the -4.3 range. I have no fragility fractures and I really just have a hard time believing that I have 45% less bone than I am supposed to. Even at a t-score of -3.6 I've been wondering, why don't I fracture?
To add confusion to the matter, today I got a call from the facility that did my scan on the Hologic with the TBS. They are going to mail the report to me. The woman that I asked me if I wanted her to tell me the numbers, and she did and if I understood her correctly, it sounds like with the TBS score factored in my t-score are WAY WORSE, I am looking at the piece of paper I was scribbling one and she said lumbar spine -4.0 adjust to -4.8--like I said according to them I am operating with approximately 50% as much bone as I should have.
I'm being to regret having sought out that scanner with TBS and I really don't know what to believe. One thing I do know is that bisphosphonates don't help improve trabecular bone.
You mentioned that you were in your 50ies when you had your fractures--I hope you have recovered--I was diagnosed with osteoporosis at age 50, in 2019. I joined a gym and have been going and slowing working to increase the weights that I use (mostly on the machines) but your story with the resistance band exercises makes me a little nervous. I really feel like I don't know what I should and shouldn't do. I use the leg press machine at the gym and I've gotten up to 220 lbs (which is more than double my current weight which is right around 107) and just yesterday at the gym, I bumped up the weight on my last set to 240 and I had no problems, but I'm always "joking" what day does something just pop. YIKES. I really don't want that to happen.
You mentioned learning about bone turnover marker tests after your fractures. I am desperately trying to get insight from someone on my bone turnover marker tests--my endocrinologist really didn't say much of anything except that my osteocalcin was near the low end, but I have Hashimoto's which can lower osteocalcin and he prescribed bisphosphonates which reduce osteocalcin so....what exactly did he expect. My bone turnover marker results are posted here:
healthunlocked.com/american...
After your fractures and learning about your bone quality what action did you decide to take? Did you start osteo-meds?
You sound so much like me. We're doing everything we can but things seem to be getting worse. I too have worries of working out too hard for my bone density scores. Afraid something will just break when I least expect it. Still, I watched my mom break bones and develop a hump with doing all the meds and suffering through all the side effects of the meds.
Hi! I recently saw a post about trabecular bone score giving a more comprehensive picture when paired with DEXA than DEXA alone. But then something went wrong with my phone and lost that link. The website even offered a facility locator to find a center to do the test. Do you have any information on trabecular bone score? I even contacted better bones/Dr. Brown and they didn’t really have any info about it.
It took me 3 months to find an imaging center that has DEXA w/ TBS capabilities. Note, facilities must have the software for calculating TBS on their DEXA scanners to provide a TBS but most don’t and many have no idea what trabecular bone scans/scores are.
After contacting a couple of endocrinologists, who claim to treat osteoporosis, and several imaging centers around my city and state, I finally called GE and talked to someone in sales and she was very helpful and kind and pointed me to medimapsgroup.com/find-cent...
I received a reply from them within 30 minutes of having filled out the form. I was thrilled; however, it still took a few more weeks for me to get everything confirmed and set up.
Here’s a little more info that might make it easier for you.
To get a DEXA w/ TBS you are most likely going to need a referral from your doctor. Make sure your doctor writes on the referral DEXA w/ TBS—there might be a check box for TBS on the referral form but if not get your doctor to write it in.
When I received the email list from Medimapsgroup (the link above), there were 7 sites listed and none of them were in my city. 2 were to a university (the same university) 2 were to 2 different VA hospitals, 2 were to 2 different children’s hospitals and 1 was to a hospital about and 80 miles outside of a major city but in a rather rural but wealthy area. There were no phones numbers provided and the email stated, “keep in mind that some centers are only for research purposes.”
I’m not a retired VET or military etc. so the VA locations weren’t an option and the University locations listed with no phone numbers LOL that’s like finding a needle in a haystack and because that school has a huge AG department, their DEXA scanners are probably being used for research on animals.
Given that I’m not a child and I have no idea if children’s hospitals will take ppl in their 50s, LOL, I decided my best bet was the rural hospital, which was 4-5 hrs from my home. Fortunately that hospital was covered by my insurance plan.
I spent approximately 3 weeks trying to get the rural hospital to confirm that they had DEXA w/ TBS capabilities and finally they said they did. Then I tried to get my endocrinologist to send a referral to the hospital. My endocrinologist is EXTREMELY unresponsive and even after multiple attempts, including speaking and emailing the office mgr, they never got back to me. Fortunately, I had a copy of the referral for a DEXA w/ TBS that I had my endocrinologist sign/complete during my August 2022 appt. The referral was on the referral form for my normal imaging center, the one in my city where I’d had my previous DEXAs. I scratched out the name of my normal imaging center on that referral and wrote in the name of the rural hospital and faxed the referral to them myself.
The next day I called to make sure they had received the referral and they had but when the woman pulled up my referral instead of showing my endocrinologist’s name in their computer system it listed some other doctor as the referring doctor. The woman didn’t know why this was the case and when she tried to enter my endocrinologist’s name the computer wouldn’t let her and she said she would call me back.
I called back the following week and this time I suggested to the person that I spoke to that she not worry about who was listed as the referring doctor and to just help me set up the appt. Thankfully she scheduled a DEXA w/ TBS for me for early December 2022. After driving approximately 5 hours for my appt, when I walked in the room to have my scan the technician looked at me and said, “I know they told you that we could do TBS but we may not actually be able to give that to you.”
Probably because I was exhausted from the whole ordeal, I was able to keep my composure and I went through with having the DEXA scan anyway. My thought was I might have to spend a good deal of time helping them figure out how to give me my TBS report but if I didn’t go through with the DEXA there was no way they could give me the report.
I did have to call multiple times, and it did take them a few weeks to figure it out, but I finally got my TBS results.
I have since figured out that the reason my endocrinologist was not able to be entered in their computer is because he does not have “rights” at that hospital or is not affiliated with that hospital. Doctor’s must have rights or access to a hospital in order to refer patients.
You might get very lucky and there may be a DEXA scanner w/ TBS capabilities in your city. If not, an imaging center that is not part of a hospital system might be easier to access.
Hope my “adventure” makes your attempt to get a DEXA w/ TBS much simpler.
I may have been the person who provided you with the link previously. If so I may have also mention Echolight and REM scans. Do you have that info or do you need it?
I’m hoping it helps. I just started taking Grass-Fed Perfect Hydrolyzed Collagen Peptides about a month ago after getting disappointing DEXA results (despite having been taking calcium, D3, Magnesium, and K2 as MK-7 for the last several years and daily exercise). It contains Type 1 & Type 3 and a serving is 11 grams. I got the unflavored version and mix it in my morning rooibos tea. My first appointment to see a rheumatologist is in late February (that was the soonest available). I don’t plan to take Osteoporosis medicines (despite my PCP recommending that I do). I hope the rheumatologist will be helpful in going over my supplements and activities and perhaps do more testing. We shall see …
Can you update us on your scores after you take your next scan? I've been doing the same as you the past few years but just added collagen like yours, but only taking 5 grams which is what the research studies used. I am hoping for positive results, as I had osteoporosis for 10 years and refuse to take meds. Good luck too!
I would be glad to share scores of my next scan; however, I imagine that won’t be until almost 2 years from now since that’s how often my insurance covers it if I’m not mistaken. I was first diagnosed with osteoporosis 7 years ago. It was a shock to me. My doctor prescribed a osteoporosis drug which I had filled at the pharmacy; however, after bringing it home and reading over the possible bad side effects I threw it in the trash. Since then I’ve had 2 more scans and over time the numbers have gotten worse. Being presented with the results can be rather depressing and for awhile I feel fragile, but then I bounce back and continue living my life. Good luck to you, too!
I’m surprised the studies only used 5 grams as the dosage. I too have started taking collagen powder but the dosage is 10 grams and all the “experts “ claim you should collagen load with 20 to 40 grams at first to rebuild lost collagen at a later age then go to 10 or 20 grams daily. Is this just a sales gimmick?
I so appreciate the information I find on this group, especially from those that are so knowledgeable and take the time to share their experiences time and again! Thank you!
The study I read for 2018 and then again, 2021 stated they used 5grams daily. I don't like to take more of anything unless its proven to make a difference. Can you share the links to the research that says higher doses, as maybe that is more current and I would then increase my dose if the research backs that up. Thanks for sharing.
I totally agree with you about not taking more of something than needed. I am referring to dosages suggested on the collagen product labels and websites such as Vital Proteins and Native Path.
Is this a hype from manufacturers/companies to sell more product?
Here's the research study I'm referencing: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl.... As you will read, the 2021 study was a continuation of the 2018 study, which had promising results with collagen. They site the exact dosage for both studies at 5 grams. I tend not to view manufacturer's of products as health experts. That's just my opinion but I prefer to follow actual research studies over what's on line being sold. That said, why take more than necessary or assume more is better? The collagen I bought also shows the daily dose at 10 but I only use 5.
Thank you for sending the study. It looks to me like fortibone is the essential ingredient in this collagen study. The collagen I take does not have this in it. Can you tell me what product you are using and if it has fortibone in it?
I use a collagen made from cow/bovine. Here's what they say about fortibone: FORTIBONE® is made up of specific collagen peptide chains designed to target bones, joints, ligaments and muscle mass. INGREDIENTS: Hydrolysed Collagen, FORTIBONE® (Bovine Source), Vitamin D, Calcium. *All Collagen in this product is from a bovine source (cow). Some peptide products are made only from marine or eggs, etc. When you look at a collagen product, the study used Bovine. That's what I chose when I bought mine. There are many products with bovine collagen in them at different budget points based on your budget.
I added a collagen peptide protein powder to my diet in March of this year. I'd read that collagen was good for one's bones and I was looking for ways to increase my protein intake because I joined a gym in January (had to wait to join because of COVID) and started doing some research on how much protein we should be getting in our diets--protein in general is very important for bone formation/maintenance. Currently, I alternate my collagen peptide protein powder with a whey protein powder. For both I mix a 1/2 serving (according to serving size on the package) with 8 oz of 1% milk and usually drink it around breakfast time.
Hopefully, I am having my next DEXA scan before the end of this year, and I will share my results somewhere on this site, but I have made so many changes to my diets and exercise program and I had a zoledronic acid infusion last November, so, if my DEXA shows improvement in my BMD, I won't be able to say with 100% certainty what the caused the improvement. I know my endocrinologist will want to give all the credit to the zoledronic acid, but since he didn't do baseline and 3 month bone turnover tests, there will be no way to know this for certain.
Also, I have been gradually adding in all kinds of changes--all in an effort to help my bones--for instance I recently purchased minimalist shoes to walk in. One change that I have not made yet but that many ppl swear by, is adding bone broth to your daily diet. Bone broth contains collagen. Once I get my next DEXA and can reassess where I am at, I might decide to start making bone broth and drinking a cup every day.
Thanks for sharing all that info. I can see though how this next dexiscan may not demonstrate the impact of all your non med strategies. In a few years though, without another infusion, that may be more clear to see.
What are minimalist shoes and how do they impact bones? I assume by putting your gait in proper mechanics to avoid harming your spine, etc.?
Minimalist shoes are super light weight and have wider toe beds and very little sole.
I got mine from xeroshoes.com/
I am very happy with them. I decided to get them because when I told my orthopedist that I walk every day and still ended up with osteoporosis, he mentioned that bones needed "pounding" to strengthen and he recommended that I start jogging during part of my walks. Then as I was looking around for information regarding his suggestion, I stumbled upon this link
melioguide.com/perfect-post...
To sum it up, a study was done that showed that minimalist shoes have the same effect as foot specific exercises. Since I already walk, I love the idea of killing two birds with one stone--saves time 
One thing to be careful about is if you've had any fragility fractures in your feet you might want to talk to your doctor or a podiatrist first. Also if you have plantar fasciitis, minimalist shoes probably aren't the best idea.
Yes, for those with foot issues, that would be problematic. I walk daily but have developed foot issues. Bought Hoka shoes but used to buy minimalist shoes years ago when they first came out, but weren't called that back then. I wish I could use them after reading your link. I walk every day and have done so for 18 years. My doctor told me walking wasn't going to help my osteoporosis and research confirms that as well.
Since I have pretty much walked my entire adult life, meaning it’s been my primary form of exercise, when I was diagnosed with low bone density I was irritated w/ all of my doctors who had always said walking was good for my bones—good for overall hlth, sure, but definitely not good enough to prevent bone loss.
I was diagnosed in 2019 and then COVID hit and gyms closed. I was finally able to join a gym in January 2022, once things started to open back up. I try to go every other day or at least 3 times a week. I use the weight equipment and have been gradually increase weights, and I do the farmer’s carry (now up to 20 lbs weights in each hand) and I do 4 sets of 10 reps of back extensions (currently with 30+ lbs). Additionally, I do 100 heal drops at least 4-5 days a week, and approximately 40 push-up about 3 days a week. I also try to throw in “surprise” exercises here and there, for instance, yesterday, I sprinted across my backyard 3 times and sometimes I will do jumping jacks.
Do you have an exercise program that you started to help combat your bone loss? Please share. Always good to know what others are doing.
You are definitely getting stronger! Sounds like you have a nice routine going there and I like how you throw in the surprise exercises, too. Like you, I’ve always done a lot of walking. I also go to Body Balance classes (combo of yoga, pilates & tai chi) regularly. Although yoga includes some strength training (using your own body weight) it hasn’t been enough to prevent/improve my osteoporosis; however, it keeps me flexible and improves my balance. Good balance is so important to help us avoid falling and possibly breaking bones. I am working on incorporating more strength training into my routine. I was doing heal drops; however, my physical therapist told me to stop because it was too harsh for me. It’s hard to know who to believe … 🤷♀️
I am moving in the same direction as you regarding my program to deal with osteoporosis without meds. I have a 3 day a week weight training session, which I will increase weight as time and strength requires, 2 days per week yoga session, 2 days per week Pilates session, now adding heel drops trying to work up to 100 per day, hike or walk 6 days per week, I have a vitamin/supplement routine, meditate 20 minutes per day, eat a balanced healthy diet. Even if my scores do not get better, the rest of my body is benefitting. I have no other health issues and take no meds for anything. I'm 68, diagnosed with osteoporosis 10 years ago. Like you, I get really down after a scan and then, get right back on my feet and move forward without letting these scores define me. Take care and thanks for sharing your routine. Best of luck to you too with future scans.
On another website, someone posted about collagen. The mentioned FORTIBONE and I looked up collagen and of course BetterBones.com (lots of helpful info) had this to say betterbones.com/bone-health...
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