probiotics and vitamins

[yess566]

Ive just started mtx and was just wondering if people found any benifits to taking probiotics and vitamins.

how long did people wait to notice a difference on the mtx drug.

[helixhelix]

The doctors normally want you to try it for 6 months, and it can take 3 months to start to work.

I don’t take any supplements apart from prescribed vitamin D as I don’t retain it. Instead I try to eat a good diet full of fruit and veg which gives me all the vitamins I need.

[yess566 in reply to helixhelix]

Thanks for the reply. Do you any advice on dealing with colds, as being told to only take paracetamol not cold and flu

[AgedCrone in reply to yess566]

if you mean not to take cold & flu remedies…that will be because they usually contain paracetamol…..so you would be taking too much !

[JenniferW]

I found probiotics helped enormously with the stomach side effects of methotrexate, it was recommended in a book I read by a lady who has had RA since she was a child. Methotrexate does a number on your stomach's bacteria. It also helps if antibiotics leave you with an upset stomach. I take acidophilus.

I started taking vitamin D on the advice of doctors, although neither rheumatology nor my GPs helped with the actual dose and the two pharmacists I spoke to contradicted each other.

That stopped the feeling of creaky muscles in my legs and made me more cheerful in mid winter.

I started taking iron supplements on the advice of rheumatology after a blood test showed a result of 50 and also after reading advice from Thyroid UK (iron shouldn't be supplemented until after a blood test). I also take magnesium as a gel on my skin and that helps with sleep and stiff muscles.

[yess566 in reply to JenniferW]

Thank you for the reply

[MJSlide1958 in reply to JenniferW]

Hi, Do you know if probiotics are ok to take with biologics as well, say Enbrel? I've been trying to find this out for ages now. thanks

[JenniferW in reply to MJSlide1958]

I take a biologic, abatacept. The probiotics are the same bacteria that you have in your gut normally, which help digest food, so I don't think they would be a problem, you are just replacing what the methotrexate or antibiotics killed off. It's like those faecal matter transfers they have started doing for people who have very damaged guts, you are putting in what should have been present normally.

[MJSlide1958 in reply to JenniferW]

Thanks

[AgedCrone]

As long as you have a nutritious diet…the only thing you might need to take when on Mtx is the prescribed Folic Acid…it must be the prescription strength…what you buy OTC is not strong enough.

This Dmard can take quite a while to work, but you should start to feel the benefit within 3 months,& by 6 months you will probably know if it is going to be the drug for you…so hang on in there…for those it suits, it can be a very convenient drug.I took it very successfully for 7 years …good luck with it.

[Runrig01]

I personally take Vit B complex as I’m on a PPI which reduces absorption of vitamin B. It helps with the fatigue. I used to take tablet form and never noticed a difference, till I discovered PPI reduced absorption. My levels then were at the bottom of range. I switched to sublingual, and it went to above upper range. I now take 1/2 dose daily to maintain my levels. I also take high strength Vit C on my rheumatologists advice, and magnesium to help my muscles relax, which my GP recommended.

Probiotics have been found to reduce inflammation, but many supermarket probiotic drinks don’t have sufficient numbers to help. I would personally research the supplements available.

Re colds and flu, you need to avoid anything like Echinacea that boosts the immune system, as that works against your MTX which is reducing your overactive immune system.

I would also suggest speaking to your pharmacist or specialist as many supplements interact with many meds. Turmeric being one of them. They can inhibit or enhance the effects of drugs using the same enzymes to metabolise, which can lead to either toxic levels of the drug, or not reaching therapeutic levels, depending on if it inhibits or enhances the drug.

[yess566 in reply to Runrig01]

Thank you for the advice. There's alot to to take in with this drug.

[Mmrr in reply to Runrig01]

Which brand of magnesium do you take ?

[Runrig01 in reply to Mmrr]

I buy mine on Amazon, as I was told magnesium citrate is best. It provides 444mg of magnesium. I tried taking 1 tablet nightly but still got cramps in my toes that are subluxed. Taking the recommended 2 stops it. You get 100 days supply.

amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B08KQ3...

[Mmrr in reply to Runrig01]

Thankyou

[RAGuy]

The absolute best advice I have on what to take with colds etc is from my local pharmacist. I also have a heart condition so often the answer is "not much" but I have had a lot of comfort from some of the older products like Olbas oil, Vick's inhaler and Covonia! They still work 😀👍

The most important thing is to get your RA under control. MTX is very effective for a very large number of patients but it does cause side issues like this. if the issues are bearable that is fine but if any become too much there are alternatives and biologics. Speak up to your Rheumy team if necessary and I wish you well

[yess566 in reply to RAGuy]

Thank you for the reply.

[Impie]

Hello yes I take b6, b12, began omega three, organic turmeric and ginger and of course folic acid. I'm primarily plant based and gluten free. Methotrexate even at low dose kicked in within weeks for me. O and I also take slippery elm three times a week. HRT is helpful too for ladies who are peri through to post menopausal. We're all so different I think it's trial and error all a bit of a journey as they say. O and I don't have caffeine or alcohol apart from special occasions. It sounds tedious and hard work but it all soon becomes habit 😉good luck x

[Aporiac]

I take high dose (5mg tabs) Folic acid once a week because it helps with the nausea a bit and because the rheumy nurses at my clinic say it helps prevent anaemia. Some people take it more frequently (up to six days a week).

I've taken various vitamins (cod liver oil, high strength vitamin D, multivitamins, etc) at various times and haven't really noticed any benefit.

The main consideration with mtx is it's an immunosuppressant and so undermines your body's natural defences against any form of infection, including colds. You need to weaken your immune system to prevent the inflammation that causes joint pain and damage. Unfortunately, that also weakens your resistance to pathogens your body needs to fight or you are liable to become very unwell. In my case, recovery from something that used to take days to get over now takes weeks or months. I sometimes need to stop the immunosuppressant, and take antibiotics or anti-fungals (depending on the infection) to get over it. Indeed, I've just finished a course of antibiotics to help recover from an persistent (eight week) chest infection after getting a minor cold, and they haven't cleared it.

As other people have remarked, you may need to wait 3 months for mtx to start working, and around six months for maximum effect to be reached. I began to notice some small benefit after around six weeks, but mtx alone only reduces the regularity of flare-ups for me - it doesn't eliminate them. I have to take a 'biologic' (Adalimumab) as well to keep my RA reasonably under control.

Many people with RA are constantly walking a tightrope between controlling the disease, coping with the side effects of treatment, and managing opportunistic infections.

[yess566 in reply to Aporiac]

Thanks for the reply.I'm hoping it all goes well, as just started this journey. My last flare up attack 4 different joints and put me in hospital.

[Aporiac in reply to yess566]

I hope all goes well for you too! Good luck!

[CagneysMum]

Hi

I take prescription Folic Acid to help counter the effects of the methotrexate and I take a vitamin D sublingual supplement on the advice of my consultant nurse. It was particularly recommended to help during covid outbreaks, and I’ve continued. I also choose to take vitamin B12 sublingual, a collagen powder supplement and I make my own probiotic (from kefir).

At one time I tried turmeric/pepper supplements to help with the inflammation- but stopped after 6 months because they didn’t seem to make any difference.

[yess566 in reply to CagneysMum]

Thank you for replying.

[Central_Perk]

Hi. I take Bio-Kult probiotic tablets, from Boots (yellow/orange/white packaging). I find it helps to keep my digestive system moving and softens my stools, peppermint tea seems to be good for this too, not perfect but it’s worth trying out.