Hello lovely people
Has anyone been given advice about continuing to shield after having the vaccine?
I’m due to have it soon as I’m a frontline social worker as well as CEV and I’ve seen some info saying I should continue to shield afterwards. Contacting my rheumy team is like diving into a black hole at the moment so just wondered if anyone had been told anything about this?
Thanks
The last shielding advice that came out last week, states that vaccination doesn’t change your shielding status. I work in a health care setting & my trust have said we continue to follow the advice from the DOH post vaccinations
No is the answer however surely there isn’t any reason to stop shielding for a while after the jab I would think. Need two jabs and time for it to build up in our system’s.
That’s my view too. x
My nurse said .. we really don’t know enough or how things will pan out.. need to collate more data .. broke my heart
It’s the truth and we know it really as much as we’d love the vaccine to be a total cure, it’s too early to say .. it’s uncharted waters. Clare CEO of NRAS said on the vaccine Zoom chat they did with Janes Galloway from King’s College hospital, London that she likened getting the Covid vaccine to you wearing a car seat belt. Can’t remember all the exact words but that makes more sense than most people have said! No the vaccines are not going to solve everything and as Ajay said, until the data after vaccination is analysed we won’t know enough. It’s a huge step in the right direction and we’ve done amazingly well to have produced vaccines so fast.
So as Prof Whitty has said, we can’t throw off the shackles and we can’t go back to normal. It has been said by the governmental medics and Matt H that we will still have to distance and wear masks and maintain strict hygiene for 2021. I think we are 1/3 to 1/2 way through all of this. x
A Vaccine is not a cure. If it was nobody would ever catch influenza again would they?A vaccine boosts your immune system against the disease you are being vaccinated against.
If you are vaccinated against influenza & you happen to come up against that virus and it attacks you ......because you have had a vaccination against it, your immune system has be warned & will react to it and you hopefully will only have a mild case of influenza. No vaccination...your immune system is not pre-warned,& you get a real case of flu.
Once something is 100% cured you don’t need to be vaccinated against it.
Like polio & smallpox......altho even today...many years after those two have been eradicated.....they both still crop up very occasionally.
Where did I say the vaccine was a cure?! Note above where I say .. the vaccines aren’t going to solve everything. I think you’ve misunderstood my reply to J7107. I certainly don’t think that way of a cure and have never said so. I said what her nurse said is the truth. I said we/people would love it to be a total cure. It won’t. We don’t know how it will pan out. Just as I always say .. it’s uncharted waters. As I said also, I think of it how the NRAS CEO described.
Some people are actually putting a lot of faith in the vaccine taking them back to normality .. you see it in the papers and online/news. It won’t be a cure. However there is every hope it will make a huge difference. (Thanks for the vaccine info but I do know this! As the daughter of a late manufacturing chemist I do know quite a bit of medical stuff!)
Far too early to be able to say .. meant how many will be protected enough. Of course we will only know in time to come how we’ve done (in terms of achieving a substantial amount of protection or not and to the success of the vaccines) when vast amounts of data have been collected and analysed.
I merely pointed out a vaccine is not meant to be a cure.My father was a musician....I am tone deaf...I think you get my point?
Don’t appreciate the sarcasm.
I never said the vaccine is a cure yet you reply to my reply to J7107 as though I’m saying it is. I repeat I am not.
I’ve been told to continue shielding after my vaccinations until told otherwise. Gutted 😞
Our time will come it’s just too virulent out there. I read 9 in 10 deaths are the CEV group 😞
But after vaccine there were no hospitalizations or deaths in the phase 3 studies. Oh actually there were 2 deaths in the Brazil arm of the oxford vaccine studies. One died in a car crash and the other was murdered!
Unfortunately the bad side of life still goes I’m!
Thanks everyone. I thought as much, just worried about the reaction of my manager as I’m sure she thinks I’ll be back in the office after having the vaccine 😩
The latest CEV letter actually says in the last paragraph you can use the letter to present to your managers if they decide they do not want you to remain working .at home
It’s unfair of her to think that. The manager .. but if she’s given the guidelines and they say you can work from home ....
Yeah, but nothing I can see about after having had the vaccine. Unless I’m missing something. I’ll check out the Van Tam link and check over gov.uk again
Depending on the date of your last letter you probably haven’t missed anything, we just have to accept the organisation skills of the people who send out these letters are not exactly perfect.I’m sure they also think we spend our leisure hours glued to Covid Rules & Regs..so we know it all anyway. Mind you ...I have just tried to find mine so that I can photocopy the para and show you ....but I can’t find it...so my skills obviously aren’t too brilliant either!
Sorry I haven’t seen what you are looking for. Hope you find it.
You have to wait for three weeks before it kicks in I have read somewhere
I believe GPs have been told to tell CEV patients to continue shielding after vaccination. This seems to be rather under the radar. Maybe the fear is that people won't have the vaccine if it doesn't signify freedom.
I think the medical profession & the scientists are really trying to push home that having the vaccine will most likely help you if you are unfortunate enough to contract the virus.They don’t want to say outright if you don’t have the vaccine & contract CV19 ......you will likely be more seriously ill than you would be if you’d been vaccinated .....because that is not 100% the case.
People who have been vaccinated still submit to whatever they were vaccinated against.
But we are now being vaccinated in good time ....especially if we have been shielding
I don’t know .....or care ....what that % is....I just know if highly qualified experts advise me to have it....I will hope to be able to take their advice on which vaccine will be best for me .....just need to know where & when!
Chris Whitty said it on tv, people who are shielding should continue after this first vaccine . Talk to your occy health I think xx
Don’t know about actually 100% shielding .....but you definitely should continue to take all the advised general precautions after you’ve had the vaccination....Hands:Face:Space: It is not the Magic Bullet we all want
The vaccine will not stop you catching COVID-19-what it will do if you are unfortunate enough to catch it .....is hopefully ensure you only get a mild dose of it because your immune system will have been prodded to leap into action against the Covid 19 antibodies.
Whether anybody has had the vaccine or not..... please keep to the rules because nobody is immune from catching COVID19 until the scientists announce that fact..... and from what we read in the press announcements & see on TV bulletins.....we are nowhere near that yet.
Thanks, does anyone know if NRAS have put anything on the website - I couldn’t see anything.
Vaccinations are many years old .........it took many tens of years to find a vaccine to work against smallpox and polio and they still haven’t found a vaccination that works against malaria.We all have to come to understand we are probably going to have to be cautious about Covid19 for a very long time.
We just have to come to terms with it and get on with our lives the best we can.
I’ll try link it from YT again .. can’t find the lists where Allanah and myself and others have done so recently.
Look up the SIREN study . It gives you the reinfection levels and transmitability level with natural immunity eg no vaccine .
Take every precaution even after vaccination as suggested by the Government scientists and Ferret18 I think you really do have an evidential case to continue shielding
It’s the James Galloway/NRAS one I want to link for someone.
I agree with Mr SB , still shield until you arre advised otherwise.
You’ll be only 70-80% at best once (meaning with no efficacy reduced from the meds we are all on) fully vaccinated with Oxford. Pfizer is much better at 95%. But that still leaves room with everyone else not vaccinated. Also, remember those vaccinated may still be carrying viral load and can spread it. I would still follow all protocols for most of 2021. I’d personally do a modify shielding - still do it as best you can assuming 59% of the population is either 2-5 days from having it (so is shedding the virus) or has it and is asymtomatic. Follow John Campbell for advise on YouTube - he’s a UK marvel! Amazing info on all studies and daily updates.
Have seen John Campbell's YTs before. Decent guy indeed.
I wish the Oxford vaccine had the efficacy the Pfizer is said to.
Yes you continue to shield...that’s the government advice.
For info here is the extract from the latest shielding letter/email:
‘The clinically extremely vulnerable will get priority access to vaccination against COVID-19 before the general population and in line with the priority ordering set by the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI). You will be contacted again by the NHS with more information on when and how you will be invited to get the vaccine.
The vaccine is likely to make an important contribution towards protecting you from COVID-19. We expect to have been able to offer the first dose of the vaccine to you by mid-February.
Your local NHS will ensure that you can receive the vaccine as safely as possible, as well as any care and support needed. Even if you have had both doses of the vaccine, you should continue to follow this shielding advice until further notice as we continue to assess the impact of vaccination among all groups. The people you live with should continue to follow the public health rules and guidance as long as they are in place, including if you have received the vaccine and if they have received the vaccine.’
Thanks - I totally didn’t see that before 🙄Problem solved 😊
I know I only saw it on the second re-read! I had to flag it up to my manager as well. Best wishes.
That’s what you needed! X
Hi Ferret18, my bosses have had there’s yesterday, both in the eighties, both with compromised conditions. They have been told to continue shielding for 21 days, however if life slowly returns to some sort of normality to continue to wear their masks & follow the protocols already in place. Ie hand washing, 2 meter rule etc.,,
Being immunosuppressed it makes sense that the vaccine wont have as good a percentage of working on me than on a ‘normal’ person. I think I am going to b very careful still until there comes a time that less people are infected in my area....could b quite a while
That’s the best way indeed and exactly what I’ll do too. x
I have now had two shots of the Pfizer vaccine. I am, like you, considered to be CEV, and the advice I was given at the time of the second does was to continue shielding; no partying just yet! The best thing to do, if possible, is wait until a good number of vaccines have been given - the more people vaccinated, the safer everyone will be.
If you are also immunosuppressed, it is even more important to be wary as there is no clear message about the amount of protection offered by the vaccine.
Thank you for your invaluable care of all your patients - very much appreciated by all of us.
bienassis x
Lucky you keep well🙋🏻♀️
It is great you got the second shot given the government’s 12 week amendment. I have to cross fingers and hope I don’t flare as my Rtx will be postponed until June/July now and likely many others too in order to allow for this 3 month vaccine wait. It would have been better if the vulnerable people didn’t have to wait but seems too tall an order to organise that for the most people who are vulnerable. Hope all went well and to plan for you. x
Good Morning, NK17. Yes, I do count myself fortunate in getting the two shots 21 days apart. I must say when I heard the announcement that the plan was to be one shot and then a wait of 12 weeks before the second, I was disheartened. I had already had my first before Christmas (21st Dec) , and had an appointment for the second on11th Jan.
I phoned the GP and was told I would certainly be getting the second, so not to forget to turn up for the appointment. The GP had arranged everything with the local Medical Centre where the vaccines were to be given. I was still a bit uncertain, so phoned the Centre to get confirmation. They seemed surprised that I was uncertain about it; of course, they were expecting me on Monday11th.
Now, having read your post, I wonder if it depended on your GP. You are in the vulnerable group, like me, so if vulnerability is the crucial factor you should have been on that list. I have a feeling it was all a matter of chance - which should not have been the case.
Both jabs went well; although the second did cause more tiredness - in fact I'm still a bit "wobbly". It can take a week to get over.
Do you have infusions of Rtx - and you need a gap between those and the vaccine? Sorry to sound ignorant - but that alone should have been a reason to have 21 days wait and not 12 weeks. Not good planning by someone I should say. I have remsima (Infliximab) by injection at home now after a start on infusions at the beginning of 2020. Nobody mentioned the need for a "gap". Maybe because it is now given via injection and not infusion. How odd that more thought hasn't been given to your case. The last thing you want is a flare caused by having to put off your medication.
You put it mildly when you say " it would have been better if the vulnerable people didn't have to wait" .It should have been essential that they didn't wait. Something has gone very wrong.
I wonder how many people have had the same experience. What a jumble it is.
bienassis xx
Hi Bienassis, maybe it does depend on what part of the U.K. you are in too? Some people seem to be called much sooner. I thought it was the elderly, care home staff/residents first and also those who work on the frontline who are vulnerable too who went before the general CEV/RA patients on certain meds in group 4? I didn’t realise some GP practices were taking people from the 4th group down already. Do you work in a hospital maybe? I’m glad you’ve had yours done though. Well done.
I was already on the CEV register/list by mid December before the government changed the ruling to 21 days for second vaccine. I should have been on since it all started there is no doubt of that, but it was bungled by admin procedures.
Yes the logistics of Rtx can make it harder to navigate so you have to add more time in after you’ve had the infusion(s) or a lesser immune response will be made to the covid vaccine/other vaccines. The 12 week delay for vaccine two is causing the Rtx patients problems a rheumy nurse told me this week. She said Rtx RA patients are being told to hold on/hang on best they can. 😑 Get the vaccine and hold off Rtx. That alarm bell rang for me immediately last March re vaccine and Rtx timing. I had my Rtx routine changed to one infusion last year for the first time. Mostly due to the way the hospital wanted it to work to have one less infusion .. it was coming into being for many hospitals to give a single Rtx infusion, but the pandemic did also influence my hospital so they wanted it for Rtx that you only went in once. I did have to go in twice as I arrived to find the main hospital pharmacy 12 miles away hadn’t sent my med and it wouldn’t arrive in time to administer as it’s a 5-6 hour long infusion and post saline drip so I was asked to return the next day. 😑
I don’t know Infliximab tbh. Or its biosimilar. Your med(s)/health situation must have been classed by the GP as higher risk to have made the practice contact you so promptly for the vaccine. Rtx depletes your B cells and they don’t repopulate for several months (usually 6 but can be longer) hence the need to delay a vaccine after you’ve had Rtx. You want to try have the vaccine at the optimum time if possible. I’m not sure how your med affects B cells or the immune in general so if it isn’t doing the long delay in repopulating B cells etc., you’re not going to have to wait as long as say I would do/ leave a gap for the vaccine.
Due to the fact I’ve been let slip through the net all over in the last ten months I’m going to phone my GP practice manager next week to check I’m on the list for earlier vaccine as I want to speak to her re something else and ask her if they will do some smaller numbers of cases at the practice for those less mobile who can’t stand and queue at the larger places.
Thank you for your info and once again glad you have had your vaccines done. Hope you feel back to normal very soon after the wobbles. X
I've just read your reply, NK17, and I can't imagine my medication is anywhere near as as complex as yours. The only comment I had from my rheumatologist team at the outset of this vaccine trail was that as long as I wasn't generally allergic to vaccines I didn't need to leave a gap between the injections and the vaccines. I was told that the medicine acts by "getting rid of" the excess TNF protein - which causes the inflammation. This protein is one of the proteins in the immune system - that's about all I know.
Remsima is a biosimilar of Infliximab - which is one of the " anti- TNF alpha" biologics. I started the medication by infusion last March 2020. The infusion took 1.5 hours reducing to 1 hour after a couple of infusions - so when I read that your infusion lasts 5-6 hours I must assume that it is much more potent. I only had a total of 3 infusions before being switched to injections (pen) at home. I had requested the changeover after reading a NICE report that the injection method had just been approved. I spoke to my team at the hospital, and they said they would look into it for me.
My request was finally approved and a Nurse came to the house to explain the procedure and how I would be supplied with the "pens" straight from the distributor at Burton on Trent (I live in Kent). My first injection was 4th November 2020. Everything is going fine so far. I have the injections fortnightly - more often than the infusions. I gather that this medication by depleting my immune system of some TNF protein does make me more vulnerable to infections of all kinds. Nobody has mentioned B cells.
After writing my post, I remembered being told by the infusion Nurse that when that year's flu vaccines started I should make sure that there was a 2 week gap between the infusion and the vaccine. That wasn't difficult to arrange. But no such gap had to be arranged between the injection and the covid vaccine. Thinking about it now I feel infusions are much more "immediate" - that is, they go straight into circulation in the system, unlike injections which take their time to get around.
You have certainly slipped through the net - do speak to the practice manager. I don't think my GP knows much at all about my medication; but he had a list of those patients under his care classed as CEV, and these patients were the ones he booked for the Pfizer vaccines - both doses. The practice manager phoned the patients initially on Friday 18th December - a quick and brisk message. "you are booked for the vaccine on Monday 21st and following that on January 11th." No time to consider it! Just as well I suppose. But in some ways it could have been difficult to arrange transport for some patients in such a short time - just over the weekend. The Pfizer vaccine has to be used once it's thawed and prepared for use so you can't dither - it can't be popped back in the fridge!
It may also have to do with my age - 85- although other younger patients were also given the vaccines.
I hope you get more consideration from your practice and don't have to wait much longer - the Oxford is much easier to transport and can be given by pharmacies and surgeries.
Good Luck!
bienassis xx
Hi there, it is your seniority in years! That is why you’ve been called quickly and rightly so! 😀 You sound so young the way you write! I am 61 so will only be called when level 4 CEV are. I am baffled why younger people were also given it though? Unless it would have been wasted unless given to other non CEV/senior patients and needed to be used? I read of some wastage as a few GP practices couldn’t organise enough people to come in for vaccines. I don’t know where it was though.
Thank you for explaining your treatment. I had two anti TNFs in Enbrel and Humira before Rtx but neither suited me but one worked miracles but only for 5 weeks. I’ve had RA since 1995 and been on Sulpha and Mtx solo therapy for over half those years so they lasted me well. I just needed something stronger as time went on.
I really do think that the CEV and those with low immune and depleted B cells may be offered Pfizer or future higher efficacy vaccines as opposed to Oxford or whatever lower efficacies are here in future. I will add though thet I’ll have the Oxford if offered if that’s all being offered and that’s the likelihood! Those on Rtx or people on the other higher RA meds that really lower immunity and don’t make as much immune response maybe have 15-20 per cent less protection as a result of that. I think if you were in that category you’d always have a preference for a higher efficacy vaccine like Pfizer. In future I think CEV patients will be earmarked for the higher efficacy vaccines.
Yes Rtx has to be given more slowly and with a pre half hour infusion of IV steroid and an oral antihistamine to ensure no reactions such as anaphylaxis. I’ve never had an issue. It has its downsides though in the pandemic. Pros and cons. xx
Good Morning, NK17
I made such a mess of my reply yesterday to your post - I really felt every year of my 85 years! I was about to send it when my hand slipped on the keyboard and the post disappeared into the cosmos.
Anyway, it really is half-way across the universe by now, so I shall attempt to remember something of what I wrote or, at least, the salient points!
I agree that my age is an important factor when it comes to the distribution of the vaccine. When I mentioned those younger than me, but also CEV, getting the vaccine, I was thinking of those in their early 70s. Of course, for those like you in their early 60s that's hardly young! So please forgive my rather warped perspective.
Nevertheless, I think if you are CEV that should be the more important point. Also, many of your age group are still working and, therefore, more vulnerable in any case to the virus.
You mentioned the wastage of many vaccines (Pfizer) left over after sessions. That is also something I've read, or heard. Yesterday, I spoke on the phone to the surgery (they don't do vaccinations with Pfizer on site) and was told that the Medical Centre they use for their patients at the moment does use up any vaccines remaining by asking the surgeries in the area to send their own staff to take up the slack. The problem of just offering the spare vaccines willy-nilly is the need to know all the health details of the candidates beforehand. And it is difficult to estimate how many will be left over, as they don't know how many patients will skip their appointments.
And there isn't always enough left-over anyway - the paramedic at the surgery had to drop out because they ran out! He is the youngest, and they were starting with the oldest!
My daughter is about your age - coming up for 61 at the end of this month. She has no underlying health problems, and I think she's way down the list. But I heard this morning on the News they are now - from the end of the month - offering the vaccine to those over 70. But only in certain areas - where most of the over-80s have already been vaccinated. So, can the 60s be far behind? I do hope not. This will probably be the Oxford; I have a feeling the present supply of Pfizer is running out. although more has been ordered.
Well, I managed to get this far without messing things up, so perhaps I should send it before the same "gremlin" gets in the way again.
By the way, thank you for your remark about my writing - that does lift the spirits, especially when I feel nearer 185 sometimes.
bienassis xx
I did post the first main Q&A with JVT on my thread a while ago.
Hi I shielded the first time round as I worked in a care home. I had the vaccination on 30th December and shielded for 12 days before returning to work. I had read up about immunity after first jag and everywhere said after 12 days your immune response should kick in at this point. So I have returned to work , still obviously taking precautions. The response to Covid after the jag will be greatly reduced and only mild symptoms. I couldn’t afford financially to shield again so had to risk assess my situation. 🤞
I hope they don’t start opening everything up too soon here.
You will need to wait for your second vaccine though 12 weeks later. That will be for me .. waiting till March until 6 months after Rtx and others who also could have to delay having the vaccine due to Rtx timings. It will be March before I get the first vaccine. End of May/June before my second.
Covid Passports ... if only we knew how long the vaccinations lasted .. in general. We have to wait and see. 🤞🏻
The general theory following covid sars 1 is years!!
Years before we know anything re the data? I would imagine so. We will still know a lot as to how people have reacted to it though by the end of the year. However as we know too well re any meds it is often years before some side effects come to light. x
Of course, I said the THEORY from health advisers based on covid sars 1 a very similar last covid pandemic , ( this one is covid sats 2) is long immunity but maybe there will need tweaks to vaccines due to different variants occurring in the covid sars 2 virus so yearly jabs may be needed.
Just the theory at present, data of course will come , when we have done a while lol !
Yes, think yearly too. x
Next time round we will know so much more.
Thing is most of us in the U.K. are likely to get the Oxford .... Seemed more sensible to me to give the elderly and vulnerable the Pfizer with highest efficacy. (However, Pfizer costs a lot more.)
Tall order to do all of phase one vaccines by Feb but let’s hope they do more 24 hour. They may come close to the first 4 tiers of senior/vulnerable patients by end of Feb. I think you are in Scotland? Will be different re numbers/population there.
Yes you need to have the second shot and I think a lot of people may not return for it. 😑
We watch and wait ... as not a lot else we can do!
Not sure what you are referring to with the 20,000 figure, sorry.
I won’t comment much as I’m not good at talking about dismissing lives. I don’t mean you. I mean it’s hard to hear that from the medics/statisticians but they have to make some forecast/estimation/prediction. x
I received my letter today and yes still got yo shield after both vaccines
Shielding
Shielding Email popped into inbox... today!
Blood test when shielding 
Shield and Self Isolate
MTX and shielding 
