Firstly thank you so much for reading. I just would love some advice from you lovely people out there.
Unfortunately after several decades as a Paramedic the last two years have been blotted with absense from work. I work for a NHS Trust and am now about to be taken through Stage 3 sickness hearing. I am the first to put my hands up and say my attendance has been pants. I had a shoulder op first and then they discovered I have cervical stenosis in three vertebrae.
I am hoping I will be eligible for ill health retirement but as I am 47 with only 20 years pension I don't really know where I stand. I have read all the NHS websites about retirement on ill health grounds and all I have really learnt is you have to have your contract terminated and not resign. My HR department state that I can resign but think they may be giving me false information.
I have had two steroid injections which worked for a small period and am currently waiting for surgery. I just can't heavy lift at the present time and this is stopping me do my role.
Bit scared about losing my job and then being turned down for ill health pension.
Any ideas would be very greatly received.
Big thanks. LM
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Lamouse
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You could claim ESA and PIP i would have thought, nras do really good booklets on benefits and pip. My HR said i cld give notice too and will support ill health, you ve got me worried now? I'm at end of sick pay too, had ss1 form . I thought if yr applying for ill health you are resigning, in a way. Hopefully someone else on here knows or has done it 😄
I just read a really good article by the RCN and it just said whatever you do don't resign. Don't know if employers use it as a get out of jail free card?
I'm unison too, got lucky and had a good one i guess but i'd still try them: advice about that shld be pretty standard and that's what you pay dues for 😀
I'm a Prison Officer in the POA. Although not in you're situation, could you ask for an area rep or NEC to represent you through this, you need proper advice and representation. Good luck and I'll keep an eye on this pal.
Cheers Woodstar. I see the work Physician tomorrow so will sound them out and move forward. You guys and girls have all been great. I owe you all a drink!
Seriously, everyone on here is great, really polite and full of useful advice.Don't let the buggers grind you down, stay strong, get advice from the the top folk we pay for!! Good luck, 🤞🤞🤞
Yes some do. I have just gone through stage 3 dismissal and the company [NHS] were extremely supportive, to help me to claim ESA they used the wording that ''I had been dismissed on the grounds of Disability and ill-health''
Hope this helps anyone where they are struggling to stay at work.
I’ve recently been through this, only LGPS, not NHS. I had to be referred to occupational health who decided on my eligibility for ill health retirement. I was sent a letter telling me that my employment was being terminated on ill health grounds, and was given the option to appeal the termination. I then had to stay off sick until all my sick pay run out. I got the highest rate retirement which meant my pension was upgraded to what I would have got if I worked until retirement age. So my advice would be, don’t resign but ask to be referred for ill health retirement.
Thanks so much Jewels. I am going to hang in there and hope for I'll health retirement. Just gutted to have to leave a job I love. Still, made some great friends and great memories. Thanks again.
Hi there I feel for you I worked for the NHS and was in a similar situation to you since 2011 when I managed to twist my pelvis at work I had intermittent absence with back problems and procedures which I was told was oa it took forever to get an official diagnosis of as and zero negative ra. In July 2016 I had a massive flair my manager started a stage 1 within in two weeks and her and HR department came round and because I had time off nine months prior they were looking at stage 2 then the stage three all with a short space of time . I was so tired I had never been above a stage 1 had taken myself into work when I could barely move on crutches . I had pleaded to have my hours reduced but was advised that the service could not support that . I have to say I was in such a dark place I could have ended it as I felt a total burden to my family and the nursing team I worked with . I gave my notice because I was to tired to fight and the union were not overly helpful . I have to say if I had been supported by my manager and HR I would and should not have done so I should have stayed off sick and let them get rid of me . Now I have managed to get ESA but that was the most degrading thing I have ever done and my heart goes out to anyone having to get it . My advice to you if you can just sit back get well and allow them to try it's not easy to get your pension given to you re ill health and it's not fair to be pushed into a decision whilst you are not well either please talk to CAB to check if you are covered by the disability act I was but I truly couldn't cope then 🤗
Nessa. So sorry to hear about all your troubles. It makes such a difference when you have a good team behind you. Hope you are getting through that dark place. Sending biggest hug ever. Thanks for your help. Shea.
Hi lovely I'm fine now mentally anyhow but I wasn't at the time and I felt and still believe that it was political to force my hand not just mine but other people I worked with who were ill also made similar decisions as I have but fight or flee I think kicks in. Hang in there if you need to rant please feel free to use me as a sounding board 🤗
Thank Ali. I guess I hoped after 26 years of being no trouble to em it would be plain sailing. Just times are very different now! Thanks for the heads up. :))
Log any emails, phone calls etc (time, dates, who and what they said) and print off emails as the NHS ironically are one of the awkward ones who seem not to have heard of the 2010 equality act or think It doesn’t apply to them.
I was a senior staff nurse and ended up being “let go” under the umbrella of a personal injury and was awarded my pension. Are you in a union? If so, get advice from them.
Hi sorry you are going through this. I’m a lawyer, not in employment law but from a practical point of view I would recommend
1. Write everything down, every conversation, phone call, messages as accurately as possible, keep emails etc and keep your own minutes of all meetings. Put date and time on all notes
2. Take someone with you if allowed to your hearings/meetings and ask them to make own record as corroboration. Also they may take in things you miss from the stress of it
3. Get legal advice on your rights, either CAB or normally you can get a free first meeting with a solicitor who will give clear summary of your position and options, what to do yourself and cost of employing a lawyer, but you may not need to anyway as this meeting may give you enough. If you do need to pay for more legal help I would look on it as investing to protect your position in the long run. You need independent advice so I would get this rather than take HR views as gospel. The law society has a search facility online and by phone you can use to find a local employment lawyer.
4. Do not resign! It can be tempting in order to get it over with but you may well scupper your position in a big way. Don’t be hurried or pressured to respond to proposals or commit to a position. You can always say you need time to get advice and consider your position. Know what the purpose of a meeting is at the outset, if it’s not clear then ask at the start, and don’t say more than you are comfortable with. Always ask for things in writing and read everything before you sign it- if it is hard to understand get a lawyer or union rep to check it BEFORE you sign it.
5. Don’t put yourself down in meetings and discussions, or undersell yourself. Try to use neutral language and not be self deprecating (like saying my attendance record is pants). It is not your fault or your doing that you have this condition, and disability, equality and employment law are meant to be there to recognise that things happen to people through no fault of their own and to protect them, to a degree. Remember your employer owes you a duty of care.
Hi I'm currently a care assistant on nights and it's heavy work I totally understand were your coming from from what you have wrote it seem to me they are gonna try push u into resigning and not retiring I'm 40 and when it flares up feel like retiring and hanging it all up but don't let them bully you weather u had a lot of time off for ill health or not you still have rights look st the disability discrimination act as if they do push you into resigning it's is discrimination Hun and they will try to as they why they don't need pay anythink to you Hun hope this help and hats off to you for doing your job ypur not thought of enough xx
Now i am sure others will tell you much the same as i will say. It is my believe that they have to terminate your contract for you to claim pip. I have heard so many stories about NHS staff who have had health problems and their employer is notorious for the way they treat their staff,you would think being a health service they would have more compassion.. Don't let them bully you out if they want you out then let them finish you darling. By the way you paramedics do a marvelous job as i know you had to take me to hospital just before Christmas,so i thank you for your service.xxxxxx
Your welcome Shea you paramedics doe a great job and sometimes in very stressful situations. I don't remember much about what you did for me when you came to me at Christmas as i was unconcious . xxxx
Please don't resign. Have they discussed redeployment into a lighter area I'm sure your skills are transferable. Do you have occy health support as they can make recommendations to support you. I've been in your position I'm a nurse luckily I got moved to a lighter area and things improved keep fighting don't give up.
Can’t you ring your union rep and ask them where you stand.I found mine was brilliant give me full run down.Thats what you pay them for.to help you when you need help.
Contact the people who run the pension scheme and ask for all the information about how ill-health retirement works, how it's awarded, what the steps are etc. You pay into the scheme so you're entitled to information about it. It may even be available online.
Hi, I’m with others on here, about not resigning. I’m going through same thing at moment, and was advised by RCN to not resign. Have you been seen by Occupational Health? I was and employer advised to redeploy, which is what I’m waiting to hear about. As sick pay and SSP have come to an end, I’ve been told to apply for New Style ESA. As I’ve been very lucky never having to apply for benefits before, the whole process is daunting, but I’m determined to see it through. You owe that to yourself after the amount of years you have invested in your work. I’ve followed union advice throughout and have been guided by them, and it was the first thing they said, don’t resign. It’s a difficult decision to come to, but now I feel relief, as I’ve confronted it, and after working 3 days and then spending 3 days in bed to recover, I realised it was not only unfair to me, but also my family. I hope you can feel the same too. However I’m still trying to sort out the money side, so still many bumps in the road. Wishing you lots of luck and hope it’s a good outcome for you. Candy
Hello, I was an RGN with 20 odd years experience. I was retired on ill health grounds by Occupational Health when I was 42. I wouldn't resign and I would also make sure they give you the correct information regarding your pension. I was given misinformation by HR about the amount I would receive, I had no comeback afterwards. Not trying to be alarmist just honest. I would not resign. You are needing your pension for living expenses I would presume.
You could apply for ESA and PIP which will help financially. I would strongly advise joining the Benefits and Work Forum as they give wonderful very straight forward advice on applying for these.
I wish you all the best and hope things work out well. Take care
I retired on ill health in2014 due to RA and other problems. I had worked as a nurse/midwife for 33years and originally I was fine in regard to my state pension was told I had enough years to get full pension when I get to 67 which is another 11 years. The rules then changed and at present I have to sign on every 2weeks so that when I get to pension age I will have a decent pension. I had ESA for a while but got taken off it. Have reapplied after a disastrous work trail but got rejected so have appealed. I gotlevel 2 NHS pension which means I am limited in how much I can work and earn so trying to find a job is a nightmare. Be careful and talk to people before making any decision
Thank you so much for all your help. Well after seeing the supposed neutral Occhy Health Physician today I am more confused! Maybe it's just me....haha.
Physician said I clearly can't carry on doing my role as a Paramedic.
I asked can I pursue ill health retirement request then. Physician answer......No....because I havent had surgery yet.
In the next breathe he said that surgery probably won't work and he recommends I probably don't have it.
I stated that if I am unable to perform the role I am employed to do due to illness then isn't that what ill health retirement is all about???
Too many contradictions from him to list.
Result.....he is going to ask for a medical report from my Consultant.
Physician definitely wasn't ' neutral '.
Still laughing inwardly now as it all seemed a bit surreal.
Luckily I recorded the whole thing. Thanks to BlightyFiveStar for the advice on that.
So I guess I just hope my Consultant backs my case. Apparently the Occhy Health Physician is going to tell the Consultant that he doesn't feel surgery serves any point.
I could use a strong word on here but I won't as you are all such great people. :))
Hi again. Glad some of my comments were helpful. Hang in there. One other thing (from what you say about him being contradictory in his statements), it can be very useful when someone is doing that, to say ‘can we just pause there? so just to sum up what you have just said, you are saying that...’ then literally spell out the contradictory statements in the words they used - for example, ‘you say I am not eligible for ill health retirement as I have not had surgery, and you are also saying that surgery would not work in my case.’ Then they should either clarify (‘that’s not what I meant etc) or confirm it. Let them see that you are writing it down, word for word. Say ‘I’m just making a note of your position.’ If they gabble on, you can ask them to wait for a moment. Seeing you writing down their comments should make them think twice about whether what they are saying makes sense and whether they want to be held to that position. It also shows you are not planning to be just a passive recipient of their opinion.
You can also ask them to explain the reasoning behind their statements- I would certainly be questioning why having surgery is a precondition for retirement, also how this can be used as a criteria where it is unsuitable for your condition? Have you been given a copy of the policy?
Another thing that is worth doing at the outset is getting them to agree the point of the meeting and also what their role is i.e. are they there on behalf of the trust or are they meant to be independent? If the latter, who is giving them their instructions? You should be given a copy of these if they are meant to be independent (their terms of reference, setting out what are they meant to be doing) since if truly neutral they have a duty to be transparent. Also in that case both sides should get their report. In court cases with an independent expert, both sides can get an input on putting questions to the expert.
are you in the united stateds cause i have had lawyers tell me you can't get disability without a lawyer. My sons girlfriend is going through it now she has been denied twice so the next step is court. They don't like to give it to you until they have no choice to give it to you. They actually left out some of her conditions on the paper work when they turned her down last time . She has ra, the neck thing, high blood pressure to go along with her thyroid condition, ehlers danlos, blood clots, chrons maybe even a couple of other things she is like a walking pharmacy. I also had a brother in law that got bad with what he had had to have an oxygen tank to get around he got turned down until he got a lawyer. All I can say is hang in there and dont act healthy when you go to court even if its a good day and you have to fake feeling pain that day.
Shea your your problems are as bad as Melissa's sons girlfriend,just different,thats one thing i have learnt over the years. We are all chronically ill. Melissa i have heard of major problems of what goes on in the states and your right to get her a lawyer. Shea over here there is plenty of help available to you Contact D.I.A.l they will help you with anything you need and they will do the appeal process for you darling.xxxxx
Good luck to him giving your consultant advice! I have had no surgery but work have still backed ill health retirement and sent form for ESA as sick pay nearly up, tho occy health did try to put me off ill health as too much paperwork?? Doesn't mean I'm going to get it but ... it's downsize house next if not lol.
I really would put in for PIp, not means tested, you can work and get it and nras were a real help when i rang advice line, said do it now, wasn't even a member then.
Every little bit helps, bad enough having RD without all financial stress that goes with it. I keep thinking 6 months time i will be glad i did all this, got really stressed by it all at first, now its just one step at a time. Really good luck with it all.
Stage 3 is a HR process but you should have been sent to Occy health by now. It’s them that lead the ill health retirement process, not hr , hr can only follow the occy health for this.
Ensure you are really heard at occy health ask for a second opinion if you feel you have not been listened to.
Do not attend stage 3 without the report from occy health
Last year I was retired on Ill health from nhs having been a nurse since 1984, and as a senior manager I had to do the stage 3 with/ to others
1. Do not put your notice in as it reduces the options of Ill health retirement ( ie top ups by nhs)
2. Get representation that knows what they are doing I was with rcn for years but they needed me to inform them wasn’t confidence inspiring.
3. You sound like you have given years to your career maybe it’s time to look after you more - it took me 10/12 months to see it that way. I am so much relieved now.
4. Good luck It sounds like you going through it, Nras have good info on your rights too
My experience was the same as jewels. Don’t resign. I too was referred to occupational health, who advised ill health retirement. Received letter terminating my employment on grounds I could not do job and giving me an upgrade on my years of service from 12 to 20 years for pension purposes. HR advised me to claim what was then disability living allowance, something I would never have thought of. I am from the generation to whom claiming benefits was shameful. I still receive dla now 20 years later. One other point, I made a one-off payment to remain a retired member of Unison, as an insurance against problems with pension. Not needed, but worth the £10 I paid.
Lamouse I’m on stage 3 I have occupational health next week I cannot physically do my job no more I can’t look after patient just about look after myself at times, I worry terrible as well, many years service like yourself, I’m 52 worked all my life like your good self, if we can’t do it we can’t do it, we payed all our stamp and taxes all our life’s, unlike some who have never worked or contributed, try not to stress about it, what will be will be, your health is more important and you will make yourself sicker if you worry about it, your health physically and mentally is first and th Ernest is second.
Don't resign I did biggest mistake I ever made I wish I had let them sack me . I've posted on this before and to be honest I stand by every word I wrote years with the NHS and I felt devastated as no support from my line manager etc . I even completed a leaving form and answered the questions honestly and heard nothing . I still see my colleagues regularly and all of them have stated that I should have let them do their worst . I successfully managed to get esa for the year it's due for renewal in July and I'm already stressing over this as having been through it and how degrading it is and the feeling that you've put yourself into this position is awful . Please check every available avenue . 🤞🤗
Hi Nessa28. I'm currently going a similar thing. I work in pharmacy as a checking technician and have done for over 20 years. I was diagnosed with RA and OA and have had a hip replacement 12 months ago. I was off work in total for 8 months while having continual flare-ups due to the pharmacy company moving me to another branch that was busier and further away from home. Well I proved them I could still do my job,!!. We agreed to reduce my hours to 25 and I was fine about it. I never moaned even when I had flare ups and had to use my wrist braces. Due to the hip replacement I also walk with a limp. I was supposed to get a chair but even that was taken away from me.so I stand for 6-7 hours a day without a break so I can catch up. I don't get paid for it but I stay and finish checking the prescriptions as I'm not as quick as I was. Anyway HR have now come down and we have all had a meeting, Apparently my job role no longer exists and they now want me to down grade to a counter assistant. There excuses are we have fallen in the number of prescriptions we dispense, I'm not surprised as we have lost 10 members of staff in 2 years. HR want me to except a redundancy package which isn't much as the company was bought out by a firm called Best way. 4 years ago. I'm so stressed about it I feel I am being pushed out of a job I love.
Oh poor you it is so heart breaking when this happens . I sometimes think we are invisible you come in work hard not moan or use the disability card but believe me your employer does so it looks as though they are equal opportunity company . You then end up feeling worthless when the powers above change their plans . Look at the redundancy package see how that will effect your life long term . Will it allow you to live with a better quality maybe less hour job or one closer to home you are an asset and worthy . Remember that the door closing is a window opening . I have found it difficult at times especially financially however I'm now a grandmother and have the amazing opportunity of being involved with them which I wasn't able to do with my work commitments to my own children so I see this as my silver lining and while the Humeria is working I will jump at life with both hands metophorically speaking . Please discuss this if you can with maybe the CAB to make sure your rights are all covered and don't repeat don't resign just let them do their bit whilst you check all your opinions . I wish you well shout if you need to talk 🤗🤗💐
Thank you so much, I just needed a shoulder to lean on. I'm having a further meeting on the 13th June to discuss this further. I'm going to contact my union to see if someone can come into the meeting with myself. As I don't feel I can argue a fair deal. Kind regards Gail.
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