I have read/been told about certain foods that are good for arthritis pain, such as curcumin and broccoli. But I am not sure if it makes a huge difference. I am vegetarian, and I have tried eating more broccoli than I normally would, but I couldn't really tell if it made a difference. Are there any particular fruits/vegetables that have been tried and proven to make a difference with the pain?
Does diet affect pain?: I have read/been told about... - NRAS
Some people claim diet helps with pain, it didn't help mine. I also am sorry to say that since you are a vegetarian already, I think you answered your own question.
All the best to you
Life is too short to give up gin and chocolate !!! I'm diagnosed Celiac and promise you it's made no difference at all. My hunch is being the right weight is the trick as excess weight puts undue pressure on the joints.
PS when gluten went out the window I gave in and put sugar in coffee as life has to have some treats and even some chocolate has gluten in. If in pain bring on the bounty bar (i do make them) and Turkish delight- oh yum now I really fancy a bit of fudge.
The theory is that many vegetables have an anti-inflammatory effect, and it is often the level of inflammation that causes pain. So the theory goes that if you can reduce your levels of inflammation then the pain levels also decrease. Didn't work for me, but then I already had a very healthy diet and low inflammation blood marker levels.
It has recently occurred to me that perhaps those who find diet makes a huge difference are people who had a very bad diet beforehand? Perhaps eating a more natural diet instead of eating processed, fatty & overly sugary food will make nearly everyone feel better whether or not they have RA?
You may be right on the " bad" diet but then again there are more specific dysfunctions that also are addressed by different diets. It almost seems that a diet that reduces estrogen ( very inflammatory ) in people with estrogen-progesterone imbalance, with estrogen dominance, decreases inflammation and pain. A diet that supports thyroidfunction in people with undiagnosed hypothyroidism ( causes inflammation in joints) reduces inflammation and pain. On top of these come the different individual allergens.
Hi, personally I can't recommend turmeric and black pepper enough!! Since making and taking golden paste my daily intake of naproxen and cocodomal have been reduced to zero. I can literally go for months without taking them, I only have them now if I have a flare up. I just thought I'd give it a try in order to reduce the amount of tablets I take daily and for me it's had a definite positive effect. 🤞🤞👍👍
Hi Glen, there are lots of recipe's online but I make mine daily. I buy organic turmeric with black pepper and ginger from eBay, it's only £6.99 for 200 grams. I but a level teaspoon of this in a small pan, I add half a teaspoon of cinnamon and half a teaspoon of honey. I then get around an inch of milk in a cup and pour that in the pan and add a teaspoon of coconut oil. I then heat this up, put it in a cup and drink it. The black pepper,heat and oil are really important as this really super charges the tumeric. If you put more milk in then that really dilutes the taste and make it much milder tasting. I do this most days but if I don't get time I have some tumeric and black pepper capsules that I take to work to have, it's not as good as the juice as it's not made with oil and warmed up but it will keep it in my system.
Hope this helps.
If being over weight is an issue (I believe it is) then eating a ton of sugar ain't going to help!
Everyone is different. What helps one person makes no difference to another. Personally, eating sugar makes me feel ill. But quite a few drugs make me feel cack too.
Just do whatever majes you feel fine.
Once you dedicate yourself to being a vegan or a vegetarian, well it becomes a part of who you are as a person... so claiming vegans or vegatarians don't always eat well is an insult..."cheese pizza milk oils sausces" arent vegan or vegetarian, anyone claiming it is should be called out. If you don't call out these people, ...well then you too are iwrong for spreading this rumour.
Peace too all.
we aren't really aloud to talk about diets on here but I found a good diet helps me and stay away from alcohol beer and grains that was my pain nemesis . Might not be the same for everyone you just need to find what works for your body . Talk to a trained dietitian through your doctor .they might be able to let you know what foods can help with inflammation .
I've posted a lot on this topic so I don't want to keep banging the drum but I do feel it's important to keep giving people the facts...
An overwhelming amount of research has been conducted over the last 5 years which has pretty much proven that Autoimmune Diseases are infact complex allergies.
With severe allergies like a peanut allergy you get an acute reaction. Autoimmune Diseases are different. They are based more on intolerances to environmental factors.
Exposure to these environmental factors over many years causes damage to different parts of the body, which eventually results in the development of an Autoimmune Disease.
There are many environmental factors that can trigger inflammation in the body, but 90% of our contact with environmental factors is through the mouth so diet is always a good place to start when you are trying to figure out your triggers.
Damage caused by intolerances often develop over decades so a change in diet is not going to improve symptoms over night. It will take a long time to heal.
Bear in mind that Gluten, Wheat, Barley, Dairy, Yeast, grains, legumes, nightshades and Sugar are the common triggers for Autoimmune Diseases for various different reasons. This makes it difficult to work out what your triggers are because they put these ingredients in almost all modern food. I guarantee if you cut all those foods out completely cold turkey you'll see a massive improvement in your symptoms after 6 months. These foods all provoke inflammatory responses in the body for different reasons.
Take legumes for example... A good group that most people consider to be healthy. Legumes consist of Peas, Beans, Chickpeas, Mangetout, Lentils, Peanuts...
Legumes are very dangerous for people with Autoimmune Diseases because they contact proteins called Lectins. When Lectins get into your body they attach themselves to cells. The body then mounts an inflammatory immune response to kill the cells that the lectins have attached themselves to. In Autoimmune Diseases, the immune system attacks cells in whatever part of the body it is targetting, in the case of RA it is the joints. Imagine how much worse your RA symptoms would be if you were consuming Legumes on a regular basis.
You have RA, so your immune system attacks the cells of your joints. Then you have beans or peas with your meal every night, Lectin proteins attach themselves to the cells of your joints and the inflammatory immune response gets even worse.
This isn't Pseudo Science, this is proven facts. You can go and learn about it yourself.
You also have to try not to dismiss how big of an impact diet can have on RA symptoms just because someone else has tried to change their diet and it hasn't helped them. Everyone with RA will have different triggers and very few people tend to go completely cold turkey on the trigger foods like Gluten, Wheat, Barley, Dairy, Yeast, grains, legumes, nightshades and Sugar because the Western world puts these ingredients in almost anything. I even bought a jar of Beetroot the other day and couldn't believe to see it was preserved in Barley water!!!
I'll also give you an example of why switching to a Vegan / Vegetarian diet might have absolutely no impact on improving RA symptoms...
Someone may switch to a Vegan / Vegetarian diet and see no improvement in symptoms because they are still eating Nightshades, Grains and Legumes.
I also want to highlight the fact that research has shown us that Gluten the size of a grain of sand can be extremely harmful to someone that suffers with Celiac disease. It is estimated that 90% of people with Celiac Disease don't realise they have it. On average it takes 13 years to get diagnosed with Celiac Disease.
Celiac Disease and undiagnosed Bowel and Digestive issues almost always come before the development of a more serious Autoimmune Disease like RA or Diabetes. Almost, almost, almost always.
There's a Scientific reason for why this happens, but this post is already too long, so I won't go into it now.
RA is a horrible, aggressive disease, so we need to fight it with aggressive lifestyle changes.
The research to support everything I've said is getting to the point where it is becoming overwhelmingly strong. I don't know how much longer the NHS can continue to go without making wholesale changes to the way they treat Autoimmune Diseases.
It's a sad state of affairs but a Nutritionist is much more qualified to treat Rheumatoid Arthritis than a Rheumatologist.
People with RA almost always have digestive issues but the NHS and organizations like Arthritis Research UK do not do a good enough job of helping people to connect the dots. This really needs to change. RA doesn't develop overnight, digestive issues are usually a precursor that rear their head a few years before RA tends to develop.
More than 90% of newly diagnosed people with RA have something called Gut Dysbiosis. Ask your Rheumatologist what Guy Dysbiosis is and he's probably never heard of it. Google what it is and you'll see why the NHS is currently operating in the dark ages. Modern Science is lightyears ahead of common Medical practice and it needs to change.
The NHS need to spend less time putting a bandage on things with with harmful medications and more time actually helping people get better.
Organisations like Arthritis Research UK need to spend less time making posters offering counselling and more time actually giving people the tools and information they need to help Reverse RA.
As a species we are not complicated. As Humans we consist of 15,000 - 20,000 genes. Many plant species consist of 30,000 - 40,000 genes and many animal species consist of 50,000 - 60,000 genes.
We are not that complicated. Our bodies work on a series of chemical reactions. Things start to go wrong and Diseases start to occur when those chemical reactions start to go malfunction. Correct those chemical reactions and the body starts to work correctly again. It's not complicated.
If you'd like to learn more about how you can start to reverse RA I would recommend reading a couple of books by a guy called Justin Sonnenburg. He is the head of Immunology and Microbiology at Stanford University. You can learn more about him here:
I really, really, really don't understand why Rheumatologists are even responsible for treating RA. Immunologists are much better equipped to deal with it.
I highly recommend reading into Justin's research. You will learn a hell of a lot more from him than any Rheumatologist in the NHS.
If you're reading this I urge you to take this seriously. I would not be sat here writing these long posts if I wasn't completely 100% sure that what I am saying is true.
I understand that it makes sense in conventional wisdom to trust the advice or large organisations like the NHS, Arthritis Research UK etc, but you have to understand that large organizations are not agile. They take a long time to adjust to change.
Scientists have figured Autoimmune Diseases out, but this knowledge hasn't hit the NHS or mainstream medicine yet. It will, but it will probably take a long time. Don't sit and wait for something to happen. Act now.
If you really are sceptical about the stuff I've said, please ask yourself one question:
How many medications can you name that actually heal people without causing serious side effects?
I bet you can't name 5...
The NHS and conventional medicine does a TERRIBLE job of actually healing people through medication. If they can't cut it out, stitch it up, throw antibiotics at it or blast it with lasers and radiation then they have no answer.
When you break it down the NHS is very primitive in their approach to modern disease.
Please do your own research on this. I hope you take what I've said seriously. I wish you wellness, you can be well again. Don't accept living in pain for the rest of your life and don't accept taking medications for the rest of your life. You can be well again, you deserve it.
No worries enthus I hope you find it useful.
Please, please, please don't dismiss the power of diet just because it hasnt worked for other people.
They could have left 1 bad food in their diet that was triggering them or they may have cheated every once in a while which interrupts the healing process.
I guarantee you will see a gigantic improvement in your symptoms if you cut out Nightshade Vegetables, Gluten, Wheat, Barley, Sugar, Dairy and Legumes...
But it's really important that you go completely cold turkey. Even trace amounts of these foods can interrupt the healing process and set you back days.
The cells in the gut lining start to regenerate every 2-3 days, so just think that every 2-3 days you take another step closer to full health again.
Cut out those foods from your diet for 6 months and see how you feel. I guarantee you won't go back. It will be tough at first but after 2 months your cravings will start to disappear and your tastebuds will start to adjust.
Your desire for food will also change in time. Our cravings are controlled the bacteria in our gut. Bad bacteria tends to feed off sugar, good bacteria tends to feed off fibre. As more bad bacteria start to die off because you'll be depriving them of sugar, you'll start to desire more fruit and vegetables because the good bacteria will take over and start to influence your desires for certain foods.
I know it's extremely hard cutting out all those foods but it's also extremely hard living with RA, so it's a sacrifice worth making.
Cutting out those foods also DRAMATICALLY reduces your risk of developing Heart Disease and Lung Disease which people with RA are at increased risk of developing.
Please also don't listen to anyone that tells you that cutting out these foods or making big sudden changes to your diet can be harmful. This is a fallacy. Talk to a nutritionist if you are unsure, they will tell you that there's nothing unsafe about it.
There is no nutritional benefit to eating Gluten, Wheat, Dairy, Sugar, Legumes or Nightshade Vegetables as an adult. We don't need any of those things in our diet. All those foods invoke strong inflammatory responses in the body. Avoid them and you'll see a big improvement to your symptoms within 3-6 months.
If you want further reassurance you can Google all the stuff I've said. It's all backed up by research.
Good luck and take care.
Almost all Autoimmune issues start with Gut / Digestive issues because our immune system is controlled by the Bacteria that live in our gut.
When things start to go wrong with the Bacteria in our gut, things also start to go wrong with the immune system.
Heal the gut and the immune system will often calm down and go back to normal.
It won't happen overnight but it will heal up just like any other part of the body.
Hormones aren't a trigger, but they are another symptom of disrupted Chemistry caused by Environmental factors.
When a woman over the age of 25 develops an Autoimmune Disease they will almost always have undiagnosed Digestive and Thyroid issues. Problem is, it's not easy for conventional medicine to diagnose these issues.
Even if you have a Thyroid test and your bloods come back as showing normalised T3 and T4 levels it still doesn't mean that your Thyroid is ok.
If you still have a Thyroid and it hasn'T been destroyed by Graves or Hashimotos etc, you can use the same lifestyle changes that work for RA to reverse the Thyroid issue.
If your Thyroid has been destroyed you will still need to take your Thyroid medication from the Doctors but making the lifestyle changes will start to reverse symptoms and prevent any further damage.
Pain is the bodies way of communicating with us. Problem is. We're too quick to ignore subtle messages and doctors like to fob us off and get us out of their office as quickly as possible.
Most health issues start with disruption in the gut. They then progress to the development of Allergies or Asthma. Then it progresses to an Autoimmune Disease or Thyroid issues. And then eventually it progressed to Heart Disease, Lung Disease or Cancer.
How quickly someone travels this journey is hard to predict but that's how the story ends for most people.
Listen to your body. It is trying to help you. Spot the warning signs and make big changes to start reversing these issues and you can get back to full health.
You'll feel like a different person in 6 months.
Thanks for this but I wasn't talking about Thyroid issues for girls at the age of 25 who are not peri menopause/ menopause while I can appreciate what you're saying.
So hormones aren't a trigger, but they are another symptom of disrupted Chemistry caused by Environmental factors? Sorry, but it's actually caused by the Change of Life. It happens to all females and there is nothing they can do to change the fact that their hormones will change other than adding HRT and my question related to the fact that the highest majority of woman experiencing RA are those who are in this transition...
Thanks anyway for your reply. I appreciate your effort at trying to understand the complexity of this disease.
Hope you're having a good day.
I think we are talking about very different things.
Hormone production changes over time in men and women like you said, but because this is a discussion about Autoimmunity I assumed you were talking about Underactive or Overactive Hyperthyroidism which are both Autoimmune in nature.
There are no strong scientific links that suggest Thyroid levels in the body are responsible for the onset of RA. Hormones don't have anywhere near as much of an impact on the Immune System as the gut. The gut controls 90% of our immune system. It's very unlikely that changing hormone levels could have such a significant impact on the way the immune system behaves in RA.
There are also a lot of things you can do to manipulate the production of hormones in your body. If a woman of 50 were to do certain things (way too deep for me to get into here) she could essentially be producing the same hormones that a women in her 30's could.
We can't hide from Father Time forever, but by supporting our genes and chemical processes we can have a lot of control over our bodies.
Again, I don't want to get too deep into these things and bore everyone, but there are biological reasons why some people appear to physically age faster than others. At any point in the aging process you can alter the bodies chemistry and start to slow aging significantly.
There are a lot of things you can do to control the production of Hormones in the body.
But there's no real link between aging, Menopause and Hormone production in RA because they do not have a big influence on the immune system.
A more probable cause of why RA develops in women at Menopausal age is because their gut has been getting gradually damaged by decades of undiagnosed food intolerances.
Menopause is also a highly stressful period in time and we know that stress causes a lot of inflammation in the gut and it also weakens the immune system.
Stress + Damaged Gut + Weakened Immune System = Perfect storm for an Autoimmune Disease developing.
If you want to learn more about manipulating Hormone production and delaying aging I highly recommend checking out Dr Rhonda Patrick.
She is a leading researcher in slowing down the aging process and the impact hormone levels have on the body. I have learned a lot from her:
Thanks again for your reply.
I was talking about the fact that the majority of woman's onset of RA occurs during peri and post menopause suggesting a probable hormone component involved.
Very often pregnancy will induced remission of RA which unfortunately returns after delivery.
This indicates that hormones can very much influence the immune system.
You stated above that changing hormone levels will not have a significant impact on the way the immune system behaves in RA and that it's all in the gut. That doesn't fit with this phenomenon.
To me there is no question that hormones play a part and often a big one. I'm just not sure science has it completely figured out yet.
You're of the belief that it all started with a leaky gut and assume it's just coincidence (or stress) that the majority of woman begin having RA during this transition. I'm not so sure it's that easy especially when RA tends to stop during pregnancy and restarts after.
Again, I do appreciate your work. I just don't know if hormones should be dismissed from your research as having no impact on the immune system or RA.
Hope you're having a good day.
I think over the years people have viewed Leaky Gut as the cause of all modern diseases, but I am not sure if it has as big a role to play in RA as it may have in some other Autoimmune Diseases.
For me, the two most likely causes of RA based on the research I've read are Gut Dysbiosis [SIBO] and issues in the mouth.
I read a medical study conducted by a Swedish University recently. They examined the Gut Flora of almost 100 people who had been newly diagnosed with RA and found that over 90% of them had Gut Dysbiosis [SIBO]. People that heal their SIBO tend to have a dramatic improvement in RA symptoms which suggests SIBO has a significant role to play in RA.
I think another probable cause for RA is problems in the mouth with either metal fillings, tooth decay or root canal surgery.
My main reasons for suspecting this is:
1. Anti-CCP is an antibody that is highly specific to RA. The only other time the immune system produces an antibody that looks anything like Anti-CCP is when someone is suffering from Gingivitis or Periodontal Disease. This feels like a firm link to me.
2. I also think it's too much of a coincidence that the joints and teeth are connected through the Musco-Skeletal system. It seems quite plausible that issues with the teeth could also cause issues in the joints, particularly if bad bacteria in the mouth are finding their way into the blood stream through bad root canal surgery or decayed teeth, which then triggers an immune response.
There's research out there showing that dental work to repair these issues can dramatically reduce RA symptoms or even make it go away completely.
I also think you are 100% right with your view on Hormones. I always trusted Doctors and the NHS, but it wasn't until RA got thrown into my world and I had to learn about it for myself that I realized that you couldn't really trust Doctors, Consultants or the NHS to give you good advice. I feel bad for the Doctors and Consultants who treat us, they probably want to help, but they're under too much pressure, and they don't have enough time to give proper treatment or stay up to date on the latest medical research.
The only positive I take from this is that we don't need Doctors, Consultants or expensive, fancy treatments to start healing these Diseases. Luckily we can do it ourselves and even if we get it wrong we're not doing any harm to ourselves because we're only putting good nutrition and helpful supplements into our bodies.
Have you heard about why Scientists think RA stops when you get pregnant? The theories are kind of insane...
Some Scientists believe that RA is driven by bad bacteria in the body. Bacteria always want to breed, grow and move to a new host. In the case of getting pregnant, the baby!
Because of this, they give the mother a break from RA for 9 months because they don't want to harm the baby. Instead, they want to make sure it develops and gets born healthy so that they have grown, bred and taken over a second host [the baby].
It sounds kind of crazy, but it makes a lot of sense when you start to look at some of the ways in which Parasitic Bacteria can control the behaviour of certain species of animals.
I can't wait for the day when Scientists have truly worked everything out and understand all these diseases.
It will be interesting to see what we got right and what we've got totally wrong. I am guessing that the real answers lie somewhere in the middle!!!
I will try to keep this brief.
You say that root canals and amalgams are a probable cause of RA. Fine, I accept that there is a link but here's a little problem with that:
Right now the research with dental link to RA ( as you stated) revolves around Periodontal disease (gum disease)
And they have found anti CCP in tissues of those with advanced gum disease. Have they found the same in asymptomatic root canals?
Previously you brought up Susannes failed root canals so you are familiar with it. Here's a problem I have with that. Her anti CCP was .5 or 10, which is a negative test. With your theory shouldn't her antiCCP be higher?
Many people with asymptotic root canals don't have gum disease which is what scientist say is a link. You're combining the two? Just curious.
Root Canal is implicated in the development of RA because it gives Bacteria in the mouth a gateway to enter into other parts of the body through the blood which can cause all kinds of problems.
Metal Fillings are implicated because Metal Toxicity from fillings can also get into the blood and provoke an immune response.
In your experience as a dentist do you think these are viable possibilities or not?
It is possible for root canal to give gateway to bacteria in the blood for sure, but I doubt if there can be any metal toxicity from the amalgam fillings. It is not generally used in large enough quantities to evoke that kind of a response, unless maybe if someone is already allergic to something in the filling material. Anyway, a lot of these metal fillings are getting replaced by tooth-colored composite fillings, so they might not be a reason for concern for much longer
Hello Allsop, I appreciate very much your posts and your eagerness to understand better the complexities of this difficult disease. Like you I have reached the understanding and the non disputable fact of the central role of the gut in immune function but have recently tried to widen my horizon to understanding the role of the humoral axis in the development of this chronic disease that evidently is bruing in us on a subclinical level often for decades, constantly fed by dysfunctions that the body does its best to cope with until you are faced with a situation where the body is overwhelmed and coping mechanisms no longer work. Menopaus may be one of them.
I believe you would find Ray Peats website very interesting and informative. This scientist really explains what and why thing happen in our bodies and cells. Here an article with thoughts on current discussion.
Good to read this, Allsopp - I'm in full support of this research. Even the popular medical journalist, Michael Mosley and his team are talking about it on mainstream TV, and writing about it in a properly researched, 'sciencey' way. I totally understand that this, and everything else, is different for everyone since autoimmune diseases seem to be extraordinarily complex, and thus changing diet may be not helpful for many. However, like Woodstar 1, I'm excited to say that my own experience is beginning to bear this out. In any event, a great diet can surely only help!
Diet and supplementation provide a many pronged approach, though, so it's unlikely that just increasing your intake of broccoli is going to make any significant change, if any. Good luck, Enthusiatjc!
Thanks for your kind words Reikisally, I also find it a big step in the right direction that even the BBC are starting to promote the effectiveness of these treatments.
Their reality TV show Doctor in the House is excellent. I highly recommend it.
It's literally getting to the point where the amount of research is undeniable. I don't know for how much longer the NHS and Arthritis Research UK can turn a blind eye. It's getting to the point where I think it's negligence.
If these organizations truly wanted to heal people, they would take 1000 newly diagnosed people with RA tomorrow and give them FMT treatments for one year and see what happens.
Stop doing clinical trials on new Anti TnFs. Focus on healing the root cause of the problem.
I just went onto the Arthritis Research UK website and there isn't a single mention of FMT treatments. NONE. Why?
If they research it and they can prove it doesn't work, tell us it doesn't work!!!
But don't sit there not addressing it.
The NHS uses FMT treatments to heal Collitis. It has been shown that it also helps reverse Autoimmune Diseases. Why aren't they doing more clinical trials on the effectiveness of FMT treatment in treating these diseases?
What the hell are Arthritis Research UK actually researching if they have nothing on their website talking about the one treatment that could potentially cure Autoimmune Diseases like RA very quickly?
It makes me angry.
Less counselling sessions. More solutions!
Not sure if this helps or how extensive this is but this is from John Hopkins...and if you look there are other studies being conducted (The New York Times printed a trial on diet and RA) so it's not all doom and gloom as far as research goes. There are organizations trying to find other ways to treat RA including stem cell research, etc. ,albeit, big Pharma has loads more money to be sure. Am I naive in thinking they are truly trying? Maybe--but here's hoping.
From hopkins arthritis .org.
"Our clinical research programs are broad ranging, including studies on exercise and lifestyle interventions, understanding individual patient preferences, how pain is perceived and moderated, oral health conditions, lung disease in arthritis, improving how we evaluate disease activity with patient-reported outcomes, and clinical trials of investigational agents, including stem cell therapy. All of our studies are linked with our robust patient databases."
I eat whatever I want. I am more careful now that my weight is stable. Since excersize is out, you need to manage diet but balance is the goal. I still treat myself , particularly on bad days. I cannot drink so food is it. I also use a vaporizer which makes me hungry all the time. I know that every pound is equal to six pounds pressure on joints. So best to keep it as low as you can.
I'm not sure of what helps but I know what to avoid. That would be night shade veggies! Torture for me! These are my favorites. Avoid all tomato, peppers, potatoes and eggplant. I can say with certainty that a lot of tomato (sauces too) will definitely cause flares. I have to eat in moderation. Doc also told me to avoid eating too much processed wheat products. Good luck