Has anybody tried this? Any results? What do doctors say about it?
Paddison program: Has anybody tried this? Any results... - NRAS
Paddison program
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Juliev320
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To get the book and diet you have to pay £33. It's basically a 2 day fast followed by a very simple grain and greens diet and then a reintroduction of a limited range of food. He is vegan and the allowed foods are pretty limited, so not for everyone! I haven't been able to find any evidence to support his claims. He tells me he is trying to set up some trials.
I tried it briefly and didn't have the will power to continue...but it was at a point when I was worrying about symptoms returning, while waiting for a second biologic, not when I was in pain.
As with all these diets it may help some people.
Matilda if you follow people like dr gregor and dr klapper and dr doughall you will find that a lot of Clint programmes are based on these dr's and what they have suggested people with ra should eat.
Whilst I realise that a plant based diet is not for everyone my own experience is that certain foods can trigger ra for example for me I think potatoes are a big no no and I really enjoy eating fruit and veg it makes me feel energized and just great but we are all different and need to eat the sort of food that is right for us.
Personally I would rather eat veg than eat eggs or fish because I have realised that a lot of my ra issues came from having a leaky gut digestive issues.
Whilst I would not say that you have to follow this programme in order to see results I do agree with a lot of what Clint is promoting.
No he may not be a dr but I think that he is doing is a great thing myself.
if it helps you out at all look up people like dara dubinet and mimi kirk. Mimi had ra and reversed her symptoms by drinking from a pure copper mug twice a day and adding copper drinks to her water and eating a raw vegan diet. Dara has helped her dad come off ra meds.
there has been a lot of talk about this diet on the forum and a plant based diet so you may want to search for more info on here.
also everyone is different but most of my friend and people who I have spoken to have reversed ra symptoms by seeing an integrated health dr and eating a healthy diet.. gluten free etc. You may also want to read a book called the medical medium and forks over knives and the starch solution.
It's true that it' takes a lot of willpower but it works. I'm having a flare, having added new supplements and foods and not trying them one at a time. So, I'm going back to what worked really well and getting stabilized for a month and then will try one at a time, no more than one per week. That's better than cancer drugs and just slowing down the damage. Also, you can't neglect the exercise as it's essential. When I skip a few days, I get a flare. So, it's for those committed to health, and you have to be serious about it. You'll get healthier at any rate, whether or not you stick to it long term. You do need to avoid "cheating." Just do it.
All you have to do is to stat to keep a food diary for a week, then on the first day of any programme just clear liquid food, very difficult, the second day simple breakfast, for lunch and dinner liquid food, third day liquid food for breakfast and dinner. Please save any money spend on books and food delivered to your home.
You can call it life style change. Results will be there, slowly. do we need three full meals a day? If you go for 1/3 water, 1/3 food and 1/3 empty stomach on every meal you go for you can see the benefit. doctors may not agree on this but look at people, schooling children in developing countries, may be two good meals a day.
I better stop now.
I've not tried it because a Mediterranean diet suits me & to be honest I'm not sure I'd have the staying power, eating out is one of my pleasures in life. The colourful veg & fruits, herbs & spices, nuts, pulses & natural 'chemicals' with choice anti inflammatories, it's an easy one to follow & eat I find. I'm not a great fish lover & whilst given a choice I would eat oily fish (mackerel etc) I couldn't say I eat enough weekly to be of huge benefit so I supplement with a daily Omega 3 fish oil capsule, as ok'd by my Rheumy.
I would ask your Rheumy, it's he who knows your personal medical history & his treatment plan reflects this so he'll be able to advise better than someone who doesn't know you from Adam.
This diet has been discussed before, if you use the Search Healthunlocked box (top right of the page) & enter Paddison you'll be able to read through them. I've tried to find out before but never got a straight answer, there doesn't seem to be any controlled scientific evidence in the long term of joint health. I suppose if the diet is chosen over meds those on it no longer have Specialist appointments or access to imaging to determine if the disease just sits quiet or in spite of reducing inflammation damage still occurs?
Maybe if you're really wanting to go med free it would be prudent to get the disease under control with the meds first then dip your toe in the water? Try eliminating foods which cause you problems rather than jumping in to what seems to me to be a really prohibitive plan, failing in some part & risk going headlong into a flare & as a result damage. We're not all the same, I can eat tomatoes & potatoes with no effect where in others they're a no go, similarly specific diets may not be helpful for me but they could be for the next person. Do your homework & if it appeals pay your money & try.
The Paddison diet doesn't recommend that people just come off medication. It recommends that people stay on their medication while on the program as long as they need to, and work with their rheumatologist through monthly blood tests. When ESR and CRP levels are down for a period of a couple of months then the person can negotiate with their doctor about reducing their medication and take it from there. The program recommends that people continue to work with their doctor.
My reply was over a year ago so in my defence I can only say it's likely I didn't know that it was recommended that those who chose this plan stayed on their meds, which somewhat defeats the object. Through various discussions I have gathered that since but of course I don't go back to previous replies & amend info. Maybe as there have been many discussions on this subject it would be better to do a search for the latest one, the info should be more up to date.
The man who developed the program has gotten himself off meds and many many of his clients have done the same. I get what you are saying about posting a year ago. I am new to this forum and your post was one of the first that I came across.
Oh believe me I know, we're reminded of it often enough! It's the science of it though, the NRAS has explained why it cannot be recommended by them, NICE or the RCF.
You may have come across a post from Allsopp in one of Kai's yesterday? You may be in a better position answer his questions?
Have not seen that post will have a look
Hi Julie. In a nutshell, there is some medical evidence that a vegan diet helps RA, and no independent evaluation of the Paddison programme specifically. You will find some doctors and patients saying it has helped them; they tend to be the people who are selling it or who have paid for it.
It is extremely hard to carry out high-quality research in this field, because people tend not to like changing their diet, and/or aren't honest about what they really eat, and their intake can't be controlled (without locking them up, which isn't ethical!) It isn't possible to run a 'blind' dietary study either, since people people inevitably know what they eat, so it's not possible to separate out true effects from psychosomatic ones...
I did a research search in the NHS Library recently, and found one systematic review - which is a carefully structured look at all the other research that has been done, taking into account its quality. Basically it concluded that there isn't much evidence available, and some of it is poor quality, and the numbers of people participating are small, so it's hard to draw conclusions. Details of this are below... I posted some details of other dietary research on this thread last week: healthunlocked.com/nras/pos...
Title:Dietary interventions for rheumatoid arthritis.
Citation:The Cochrane database of systematic reviews, no. 1, p. CD006400., 1469-493X (2009)
Author(s):Hagen, Kåre Birger,Byfuglien, Marte Gjeitung,Falzon, Louise,Olsen, Sissel Urke,Smedslund, Geir
Abstract:The question of what potential benefits and harms are associated with certain dietary regimes used in rheumatoid arthritis is an important one for many patients and health care providers. To assess the effectiveness and safety of dietary interventions in the treatment of rheumatoid arthritis. We searched the Cochrane Central Register of Controlled Trials (CENTRAL)(The Cochrane Library, issue 1 2008), MEDLINE, EMBASE, AMED, CINAHL and reference lists of relevant articles (up to January 2008), and contacted authors of included articles. Randomised controlled trials (RCTs) or controlled clinical trials (CCTs) where the effectiveness of dietary manipulation was evaluated. Dietary supplement studies (including fish oil supplements) were not included. Two authors independently selected trials for inclusion, assessed the internal validity of included trials and extracted data. Investigators were contacted to obtain missing information. Fourteen RCTs and one CCT, with a total of 837 patients, were included. Due to heterogeneity of interventions and outcomes, baseline imbalance and inadequate data reporting, no overall effects were calculated. A single trial with a moderate risk of bias found that fasting, followed by 13 months on a vegetarian diet, may reduce pain (mean difference (MD) on a 0 to 10 scale -1.89, 95% confidence interval (CI) -3.62 to -0.16), but not physical function or morning stiffness immediately after intervention. Another single trial with a moderate risk of bias found that a 12-week Cretan Mediterranean diet may reduce pain (MD on a 0 to 100 scale -14.00, 95% CI -23.6 to -4.37), but not physical function or morning stiffness immediately after intervention. Two trials compared a 4-week elemental diet with an ordinary diet and reported no significant differences in pain, function or stiffness. Due to inadequate data reporting, the effects of vegan and elimination diets are uncertain. When comparing any dietary manipulation with an ordinary diet we found a significantly higher total drop-out of 10% (risk difference (RD) 0.10, 95% CI 0.02 to 0.18), higher treatment-related drop-out of 5% (RD 0.05, 95% CI -0.03 to 0.14) and a significantly higher weight loss (weighted mean difference -3.23, 95% CI -4.79 to -1.67 kg) in the diet groups compared to the control groups. The effects of dietary manipulation, including vegetarian, Mediterranean, elemental and elimination diets, on rheumatoid arthritis are still uncertain due to the included studies being small, single trials with moderate to high risk of bias. Higher drop-out rates and weight loss in the groups with dietary manipulation indicate that potential adverse effects should not be ignored.
I disagree that the testimonials are from people financially benefitting from it. I haven't come across one person other than the person who spends his time and money running the program or his employees who give testimonials. The guy can't work for free, people. But, the other dozens of detailed testimonials are people from all over the world and I have not seen anything about any of them working for him. I don't think it's fair to discredit a program that obviously works by implying people might be lying to make money. That's not fair to people whose lives may benefit. You can do the program for free, as I am, and it causes not harm. So, why poison it with cynicism that as far as I can tell is unsupported?
I have just spend money on the paddison program, and the result is totally remarkable & positive. I started with just water for two days, then started adding cucumber & celery juice for two days. Now after five days I am on buckwheat & quinua etc etc etc.
Before the diet I was had severe pain travelling through many joints, swelling in hands and feet, unable to walk more than a few feet & depressed.
I had been prescribed MTX, arcoxia, codeine and 10% gel to apply to specific joints. I had also been using ice-packs like there was no tomorrow, and it felt like there was no tomorrow.
Initially, on the no-food diet I still had pain and inflammation and used the ice-packs. However I was able to reduce my NSAID meds down. Through the days I gained confidence and reduced NSAID meds further, and now down to zero. Now I am just on paracetamol - in my terms I call that med free.
And best of all no inflammation and very little pain. If life continues like this then I am on the road to declaring myself totally arthritis free, all except for my damaged joints.
I will continue the MTX until I see my doctor.
It will be interesting to hear your Rheumy's thoughts on your efforts Andy & if you do manage to go completely med free. If MTX works well for you it will also be interesting to see if you stop it how you react. Best of luck & keep posting updates.
Last night I slept badly because my elbows hurt which meant I could not get comfortable in almost any position. My elbows have been hurting for a
week or so, but with the NSAIDs I probably could not feel the pain so much.
I have applied some 10% gel to them this morning, which I did not want to do. Also having more paracetemol...
For dinner last night I had more buckwheat& quinua but with an amaranth, brown rice & turmeric dish with a leaves of pak choi, steamed over the rice & amaranth.
I am also keeping up two juicings a day of celery & cucumber. I am beginning to add salad leaves & herbs to these to vary flavour.
I don't think it's good idea to deny yourself your prescribed meds if you're in pain & until you're confident that your food & diet efforts are doing what you're hoping they'll do. The elbow pain is probably inflammation which isn't being controlled with your efforts & needs proper attention. The hope is that given time it will help but in this transitional period don't feel it's giving in, you need to ensure damage isn't being caused in the change over period. You could always ask your Rheumy nurse if she can suggest anything non medical. If you're willing to try it what I've found useful for my neck & shoulders is Pernaton gel, it's also eases my finger joints, Heberden's nodes, which don't seem to be helped by anything else when red & sore. It might take the edge off & help you drop off to sleep.
Part of the problem with pain meds is that they damage your gut which is a source of the problem. So, you deal with pain in natural ways that won't damage your gut.
Not so in my case, though possibly as I've been coprescribed a PPI with each form of pain relief from day one of being diagnosed with both RD & OA. I had a gastroscopy 8 months ago which confirmed I have no erosions of any form in my gastrointestinal tract. Biopsies taken also came back clear. Please don't state such things as fact when they are not, generalising dismisses the power of your argument. As I said in my reply to Andy I do use a non-medicinal topical gel but the benefit is for acute OA pain only, my experience is that chronic RD & OA pain is only relieved by my prescribed pain relief, my proven choice. It could be of course that your experience & intensity of pain is different & you can rely on only 'natural' products, not so for me. I have no need for nor do I choose to deal with pain in natural ways other than the topical gel periodically to supplement my meds. Thank you for your reply nevertheless.
Hi I have RA which is getting worse and they want me to start methotrexate which I am not happy about , I have just learnt about the paddison program and trying to find some recent information about it, I came across this site that I find very interesting and although I note you posted 3 years ago with good results I wondered how you were doing today as I am seriously thinking of joining I don’t even know if you will get this message but worth a try, hope to hear from you soon
in reply to Smurf62
Smurf62, Andy has written a blog which he has put the link to further down.
Smurf62 in reply to
Thank you I’m new to the site will have a look
He's no longer a member here Smurf62 but if you check his profile you may be able to contact him on one of the other sites.
I understand if you really don't want to take prescribed meds but methotrexate is a truly wonderful med for many, myself included (10 years). The PP however is an option if you prefer to try to control your RD through diet, restrictive though, no guarantees & many find it difficult to comply, Andy is an exception but he's given up a lot to stay on it.
I hope whichever way you jump it's the right choice for you.
Hi thank you I have done a lot of research about methotrexate perhaps too much and scared myself silly with some of the reviews, I know loads of people have had brilliant results from it it’s me just being stupid ☹️ And because I had a very bad allergic reaction to an steroid injection given by my Rheumatologist I think it has terrified me more as this med maybe right for me I’m sure I will work it out in time just want the pain to stop
I understand. Sometimes Google has a lot to answer for. If only you'd asked here, we'd have allayed any fears you have or at least supported you through choices. Why don't you talk it through with your Rheumy or nurse, there are alternative DMARDs. Ok, they will have considered MTX the best option for your severity but unless they know how you feel about it they can't help you, & the sooner you start treatment the less likely you'll have problems down the line. You see the pain needs to be addressed, what's causing the the pain (& the inflammation) can be, if left untreated, cause bone erosion or even joint deformity. It can damage other parts of the body as well, vital organs. Trying to attack disease activity with diet isn't going to be a quick fix. Neither is it with DMARDs in all honesty, they usually take around 12 weeks, but improvements are usually seen before. Eating a good healthy diet in conjunction with traditional med treatment really is the best way from experience.
The scare stories really are just that, even if there are some which are true the percentage is so low compared to the people who have great benefit. With MTX we even have folic acid to help ease any side effects, if you have any. I take 5mg 6 times a week & am just a little more tired the following day & just want to pick at food but for the benefit it's worth the one day. It's only taken weekly too, none of the other DMARDs can claim that! Hey, even the patient information leaflet in a packet of paracetamol can be scary reading.
You're not the first to scare yourself out of trying a med by researching it online, doubt you'll be the last, but not everything online is the truth is it?!
Talk it over here or with your Rheumy nurse, as long as you make the right decision for you but you do need to address the pain.
Take care. 😊
Thank you I fully understand everything you have said I think that’s why I am so confused! I know it will probably help me but can’t seem to get past “ what if I have an allergic reaction to it” it scared me so much before I have never experienced anything it , I have discussed this with my rheumatologist and even asked if I could have testing done before I take it to make sure I won’t react but it all comes down to costs unfortunately and I’m not in the position to pay myself at the moment, and because it’s the same department it makes it harder , as you suggest I will keep asking questions and I do feel a bit more supported wish I had found this site sooner, thank you for your help
Have you had an allergic reaction to any other meds? I think that may be the initial question to put to your Rheumy, why you did with the steroid injection. Until you discuss your concerns & consider your options the pain won't subside, not without meds, NSAIDs, prescribed pain relief, that really does need addressing. We all feel like burying our heads in the sand at times so don't worry if that's how you're feeling but unfortunately disease activity will worsen the longer you leave things. I'm trying not to be preachy, it's just I know if you're feeling anything like I was when I had 3 months off my meds & in full flare I'd have done anything to have them back by the time I had them reinstated. It was an admin error when I returned to the UK from living abroad & my allocated Rheumy didn't rearrange another appointment with an alternate Rheumy.
Consider as well that your Rheumy will be looking out for your first drug monitoring bloods test results. As you're not taking your MTX you won't have had one, so maybe a call to your Rheumy nurse should be made, explain why there won't be one just out of courtesy. Take it from there. I hope you sort something out in the short term. x
Sorry to hear that but glad you have it back under control, my rheumatologist was the one that gave me the injection and saw how I reacted to it so we have discussed my concerns at length and he really does understand but at the same time he does say that if I don’t take the medication he can’t help me which again I fully understand, I have posted a separate post to ask people about their experience as suggested , I feel a bit less worried with our conversation and I’m sure I will soon make that right decision thank you
in reply to Smurf62
foodandarthritis.blogspot.com/
There are lots of posts on here too about food and inflammation.
Do keep asking questions here as there are lots of us on methotrexate and it has helped a lot of us. It is very scary starting a new med but you’re not alone and not the only one who is/was scared. At the end of the day it’s your choice what path you take.
Let us know how you get on.
I have the Tribest Slowstar juicer which is an auger one. Mostly very easy to clean.
Nope what is somerset's story? Perhaps I will google it!
What I feel I have learnt is that most if not all NSAIDs inhibit restoration of my gut's proper health. So if I continue with my NSAIDS then I am slowing down my recovery.
I mean that by I am listening extremely closely to my body's reactions to my new diet. The stage I am entering now is to eliminate foods by introducing them one at a time-ish. So if I get an unclear result because it is masked by meds, then my improving diet will not be as accurate as it should be.
And anyway last night I thought I might need an ice-pack at least on my right ankle. But as soon as I took my socks off I realised that an ice-pack was not needed.
The gel I will continue with on my elbows, if necessary. And when I come across a food that causes me problems I will probably need to use that and other NSAIDs to aid quick recovery as I work to get to a clean state again. So essentially more as needed... but relying more on paracetemol.
PS Whilst writing this, very surprisingly I just picked up a steaming cup of tea (green) and was able to hold it properly with my first finger providing the support with no support from the other hand. That's the first time I have done that in many many months.
Sorry Andy, I missed your reply. Of course, I don't know the ins & outs as you do, I was concerned that inflammation would be causing damage & thinking short term NSAID (until your inflammation reduced or went) would do that over how you're attempting to control the disease. I'll beak out now, should have realised sooner! Just as a matter of interest, does paracetamol not affect similarly, having anti inflammatory properties or is it a case of less is more?
I think paracetamol also has similar side effects, but uneducated guess is less so. And certainly my doctor has recommended use of paracetamol if pain & inflam only slight.
Whole stalks go in. Pulp will go to compost. The Tribest Slowstar is really good at getting all the juice out, so very little advantage in putting it through the juicer again.
We have an excellent centrifugal juicer & I use the pulp for baking, apple cake, muffins, carrot cake plus extra carrot, little gets wasted. Not done so much recently as h's blood glucose is all over the place, not good but worth considering if you're careful what you eat. Men bake too, I've seen them on TGBBO! Veggies can be used in homemade soups or stew, it's surprising how much flavour remains in pulp.
Banana, pear and my cucumber/celery juice for brekky. Yummy. First day I will have two meals. Took some nsaid. No inflammation, but painful feet. I think it nothing to do with what I ate yesterday. So generally good.
Just over week ago I started a private blog, just to share with my (incredibly supportive) wife and son and his wife. I laid out how painful a state I was in. At the time I was so down I could not imagine sharing it with others outside that tight group.
Watching the beginning of the first video of RAHealthCoach is so heartrending. He is incredibly brave. I am so lucky because at least I have no deformities and what I have seen of Healing Josephine is very inspirational. Thank you so much for the recommendations, as you say, NOW, "I am not alone."
There seems to be a mine of incredibly helpful information opening up to me. Why on earth my doctor(s) have closed eyes to this
I am sure is beyond most of us!
I feel a duty to document my own interpretation of my illness. For me probably a blog is the way to go. I will start that project soon.
Yesterday the morning was spent in Poole harbour, Dorset. I could not walk without lots of pain in my feet so my friends pushed my in a wheelchair. We saw a boat being launched from a lorry on the quayside.
Later I had to travel in the car for several hours Northbound. Fantastically I have still little or no inflammation at the end of the day. The place that seems to get it is my right ankle. But still no need for ice-packs.
An uncomfortable tossing & turning night. Realised I could not live without my NSAIDs at this stage, so my hopeful stance of avoiding them almost entirely is now well and truly kicked in to touch. They have now kicked in and I can operate (for a while).
Whatever getting dressed this morning I realised my shoulder pain has reduced significantly, and so I was able to dress myself completely, including putting my socks on properly. (I recently bought some ankle socks that are lovely and warm underneath, really toastie warm, and because they only go over the ankle they are easier to get on.)
Last night I added half a courgette to my cucumber & celery drink, really nice! It seemed to smooth it up somewhat. Also I did not eat in the evening.
I am so amazed at how easy this diet is. Never feel hungry. Love the smell and look of other people's food, but in no way jealous. Just knowing my body is improving little by little is a total miracle.
okay here goes. No posts for a couple of days because I have been creating a blog
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