alternative medicine

[Futureckd]

I have been reading about alternative medicine for ckd and came across: Ayurveda, functional medicine, and stem cells. The first and last are not offered in US but in foreign countries, The second one is offered in several clinics in US but not necessarily for ckd, it seems as management of chronic disease in general through improving diet and overall health. Did anyone has experience good or bad with any of these alternative medicines? This is a topic that could be important to many other ckd patients.

[jodaer]

I'm not sure where you looked but there are Ayurvedic practice in the US. I've seen one and been pleased with the outcome. Having said that I didn't see her for CKD but something else. I would be very careful with anyone claiming successful healing in regard to stem cells.

[Futureckd in reply to jodaer]

I read about Ayurveda in published papers by Indian scientists published in Indian journals , claiming its ability to cure ckd. I talked to couple of Ayurveda Indian doctors on the phone and both believe that their treatment can cure ckd. Also lots of YouTube videos also by Indian doctors claiming the same thing. However, I have not seen any patients claiming it cured them or it harmed their kidney more. I learned that Ayurveda is a significant part of the ancient Indian medicine. I asked Indian friends, they know that it can help with skin disease but no info about chronic diseases.

For the stem cells , I watched 2 videos of ckd patients said they were improved with using stem cells treatment out of the country. For the functional medicine, my primary physician suggested to look into it. They are in US in many clinics . I did not call any yet.

Could you share the Ayurveda clinic in US that you used? Even in a private message to me. I like to read more about it if possible. Thanks

[jodaer in reply to Futureckd]

vagaro.com/ayurvedaandyogat...

This is the one I went to. IMHO I would be very careful of Utube videos. Some can be more dangerous than Dr Google. Also beware of someone who claims they can cure you. I don't think there is a cure for CKD. Your only hope is to keep it at bay.

[Futureckd in reply to jodaer]

Thank you.

[Blackknight1989]

It is a alternative treatment not studied widely. There are several “studies” showing the efficacy and safety of this treatment but they are either not the gold standard RCT (randomized controlled trials) nor are they peer reviewed. Also, the case studies are only on one individual so they sample size is too small. Additionally, these studies are not published in accredited journals instead published on either informative only or journals of the alternative medicine which are only published to mislead the consumer into thinking there are viable medical stufies backing up the treatments. Here are the links to the studies supporting this treatment. Not where published or the lack of any type of approved methods for solid science and evidence of both efficacy and safety:

worldwidejournals.com/globa...

sciencedirect.com/science/a...

iomcworld.com/open-access/m...

Here is the NIH site on alternative medicine and an explanation of what I attempted to explain about the studies and the safety and efficacy of alternative meds and a link to NKF and their recommendations on herbal remedies:

nccih.nih.gov/health/ayurve...

kidneyhi.org/use-of-herbal-...

Finally some warning on this specific treatment and the potential adverse effects of using these herbs:

health.state.mn.us/communit...

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CCDPHP...

Hope this helps. Beware of snake-oil salesmen and their stories of “cures.” If it was really that effective wouldn’t all of us be touting the benefits and the medical community recommending it to all CKD patients? Remember what your parents or some trusted mentor told you when you were young…”if it sound too good to be true it probably is!” My best in your CKD journey!

[ashok5085]

Hi, I have tried several ayurvedic and homeopathic treatments but there was hardly any benefit. Claims seem to be only claims!

[Futureckd]

thanks all for valuable info. So far I never seen any response from any group supporting progress on ckd using this treatment (Ayurveda) . Even my Indian friends could not get me one case that took it and improved. I saw many questions online about it but no answers. You are right, if these claims were true, the ckd would no longer be a serious disease. What is more dangerous than these false claims , youtube videos, or dr Google, is the desperation this ckd make patients feel, that whatever you do , disease progress will happen.

Based on my readings and talking to my neph, there is some hope in the new drugs SGLT2 that several current studies with promising results are going on. The guidelines of what ckd stage can take it also keep changing based on the studies.

[Bassetmommer NKF Ambassador]

My GP I saw for years was Indian. We discussed using some Ayurveda treatments such as supplements. This more about diabetes than CKD, as he never addressed the CKD (as he should have. NO longer anyone's doctor by the way, he left and went back to India.) Anyways, he was totally cautious about using supplements. Said they were often not what was on the bottle, or in tiny amounts and that often there were other "products" in them than were harmful.

As the others have said, lifestyle changes, good healthy diet and conservative non-nephrotoxic medications is the ONLY true treatment to slow CKD. There is no cure. If there was, someone would have claimed it and made a fortune.

[Futureckd in reply to Bassetmommer]

thank you. I read the report of possible harmful effect of this Ayurvedic treatment in one of the links that blackjnight1989 sent (3 cases took Ayurvedic treatment for different illnesses) and their illnesses became worse. They had to go to the hospital. It seems that even if the treatment is plant based, contamination with lead or mercury is very possible. These metals are toxic. What I saw in that report is that once patients stopped the Ayurvedic treatment and took clinical medicine in the hospital, they all improved and illness was controlled. At least that part was good.

[jodaer]

It seems to me that maybe you are mixing ayurvedic medicine with the supplements that some of the practioners use. Yes, some might have metals in them as there isn't any oversight of them. Same as any supplements even in the US and also the arsenic in baby formula.

Ayurvedic medicine doesn't cure CKD. Nothing does, including western medicine. What it does do is incorporate the mind body connection. They treat the whole body, not just one part. It has many parts, food, some supplements, meditation, breathwork, yoga. It's a lifestyle.

[Futureckd in reply to jodaer]

No, I am not mixing Ayurveda with regular supplements. Even if they say Ayurveda is plant based, there is no guarantee it is not contaminated , either the soil or equipment used in processing plants to make tablets. So I am confident they were talking about why Ayurveda could be harmful in those cases in that report. I am not convinced of treating whole body, what does it mean really?

[jodaer]

Ayurveda is the traditional Hindu system of medicine, which is based on the idea of balance in bodily systems and uses diet, herbal treatment, and yogic breathing. It seems to me you are talking about the supplements not actual Ayurveda treatment.

[Futureckd in reply to jodaer]

Thank you

[Baron1]

Good Evening,

My reply maybe a bit late to the topic, but have you looked at the therapy from Trinity Clinic Fukuoka in Japan involving 10 intravenously administered doses of 200 million autologous adipose tissue-derived Mesenchymal Stem Cells over two hours. This is repeated every fortnight until 10 treatments are completed. In order to reduce the risk of graft-versus-host disease, the patient’s own stem cells are used.

The stem cells are extracted from patients’ own (autologous) fat, or adipose, tissue. Following extraction, the cells are expanded in the laboratory until they reach high numbers, and injected back into patients’ blood.

This is the correct way to use stem cells, over several coarses of treatment, not just one or two as most clinics use.

Maybe this the avenue you can take.