Ground-breaking new book: post deleted

[Trill]

I was just following up this interesting information, only to find it had been removed.

Why please? I would like to have had a discussion about its revelations but now I can't.

[Bunkin]

Hi, I just ordered the book so I’ll be glad to discuss after I read it! Should have it in a couple of days!

[Trill in reply to Bunkin]

Yes please! Although at 500 pages it might take a while. I read the reviews and it seems so very drastic a diet . . .

[Beckett24 in reply to Trill]

Hi, Trill. Well, it's a plant based diet. I am easing into it by first adopting a vegetarian diet and will then transition to a plant based diet. I have already tried Vegan Veggie Burgers for my meat and like them better than beef patties since they are hard to mess up in the cooking and come out tasting delicious from the oven. I figure my living another 10 or more years not only without dialysis, but in a healthy, active way is worth it. Good luck!

P.S. The book is a very easy read as it's mostly written in layman's terms. A lot of those 500 pages are scientific case studies which you can skim or skip. But they are there to back up everything Lee Hull writes.

[Bassetmommer NKF Ambassador in reply to Bunkin]

What was the book?

[Bunkin in reply to Bassetmommer]

Stopping kidney disease, a science based plan by Lee hull

[Beckett24 in reply to Bunkin]

Hi, Bunkin. It's a long book, but it has a lot of scientific, published, case studies which you can skim or skip to back up Lee Hull's writings, findings and methods. After you read the book, you will know more about CKD and nutrition than most primary care doctors and I'm willing to bet even some registered renal dieticians. LOL Tell us what you think after you read a few chapters.

[Bunkin in reply to Beckett24]

Awesome! Thanks 😀

[KidneyCoach NKF Ambassador]

I suspect it was removed as its not approved by NKF. It may be too drastic or unsafe to be approved by NKF or any scientific data to prove its efficacy. That's just my opinion. Blessings

[Beckett24 in reply to KidneyCoach]

Hi, KidneyCoach, it was removed because the person who put up the original post about Stopping Kidney Disease put up two posts at the same time which was considered advertising and is against the community forum rules. He also got his account banned. I should know. I am that person. After inquiring as to what happened - I did not know I was breaking any rules - and agreeing to follow the rules, I got my account back.

The book recommends a very strict, plant based diet. But there is a lot more to the book than that. I seriously doubt the NKF would be against it.

Thank you for your time.

[KidneyCoach NKF Ambassador in reply to Beckett24]

As I said just my opinion. Did you also write the book? So very many people out there writing books about what they consider to be the best kidney friendly diet to follow. It boggles the mind. Find what works for you and stick with it. Be assured that because its in a book and has worked for 1 or more persons is no guarantee it will work for you or your loved one. Use all due discretion and caution when adapting your diet. Many Blessings #kindredkidneys

[Beckett24 in reply to KidneyCoach]

I stated the actual incident which caused the post to be removed. I did not write the book; I am not Lee Hull.

[Trill in reply to Beckett24]

Didn't intend to cause an international incident!! Just concerned by the Amazon (er . . . is that advertising?) reviews, as if you really have to go so far as no meat, fish, eggs, dairy and more, as one reviewer said they did with good results, that's more than I feel I could do. I rarely eat meat and when I do it's chicken; eat a little cheese, one or two eggs a week, but a reasonable amount of fish. I am CKD3a and GFR 57, and it's been that way 10 years; if it drops all of a sudden sometime I will buy the book. I'd just be interested in your opinion and I know every diet is different but we don't have the luxury of seeing a nephrologist at this stage in the UK to do more than be generally careful. No added salt for instance. Thank you Beckett24 and any updates if permitted would all be grist to the mill (we can eat grist, can't we? I do believe as it's a wholefood, maybe not!).

[Beckett24 in reply to Trill]

Hi, Trill. I am a married man. I had a GFR in the high 50s in my early 50s. Back then my primary care physician told me that my kidneys would last me the rest of my life. I still saw a nephrologist who told me the same thing - even though he muttered under his breath that I'll probably die of heart disease first!! I did nothing about my diet, exercise and weight management. I am now 60 and my GFR has been slowly dropping - it was 44 in December 2018 - I am now Stage 3B.

When I recently saw Table 1 of this published, scientific study... I burst into tears: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl....

I'll be 61 this June. I really don't want to die around 68. I would urge you to buy Stopping Kidney Disease by Lee Hull and educate yourself now - it's not just a case for a plant based diet - it's a tome on CKD - everything you need to know. Don't wait until your kidney disease gets a lot worse like I did before you act. Good luck!

P.S. I am seeing my new doctor on April 29 and will ask him for new lab tests. I have been mostly vegetarian working toward vegan and exercising since February 1. We'll see if diet and exercise make a difference in the lab tests.

[Trill in reply to Beckett24]

Hi Beckett24. Not sure what marital status has in the mix, but I do appreciate your persuasive arguments and will definitely get the book.

I too read the medical paper (thanks for the link) and it looks like I will keel over at 80 in ten years's time (well, I am 69). But, I wonder what effect statins have on that data? And the entire paper seems to be predicated on a male of 19 and his prospects.

I have a GFR of 55 and no proteinuria. I note the chart has a really wide range in each section for GFR so 10 years applies to between 45 to 59. 10 years ago my GFR was 58 and has slightly fluctuated between the two figures, even at one reading going up to 60. Microalbumin was 12, this year.

It seems strange to me that unlike you my markers are not dropping but I take your point and I suppose I was waiting for a decrease to show and then act fast.

So you are going to give up eggs, cheese, milk, fish? I would find that so hard.

[Beckett24 in reply to Trill]

Hi, Trill. I wrote that I am married man just to give some background and to identify male gender for mortality table. The GFR of 30-44 has a life expectancy of about 3-4 years less than 45-59. Although the paper cites a 19 year old as the case study, the table still applies to all age groups and genders. Still with a 95% confidence interval, I guess that means that you have a 5% chance of beating the odds. Since most people don't read about CKD, will not adjust their diets properly, won't exercise and believe what their doctors say with a 100% confidence interval, it's not that hard to be in the top 5% if you are willing to put in the work and educate yourself.

It's funny, because I had not been eating that much eggs, cheese, milk and fish. I guess I really did not care for them that much. As far as meats and poultry, I can live without those too. And like I wrote in this thread, my wife and I really love the Vegan veggie burgers. Your numbers are really pretty good for someone your age - no offense. I imagine if you start adjusting your diet and exercise now, you will live to a ripe, old age.

I believe my markers were dropping because I asked for it. My diet was poor for many, many years, lots of bad food and sodium. I had put on a lot of weight and I was not exercising. Now I am on a crash program to get my health back, not just raise my GFR.

Don't forget the other important things which are not that hard to do. Drink half of your body weight in water (fluid ounces, not pounds LOL), really cut down on the sodium and exercise every day - even walking is a lot better than nothing. Let me know how you like the book.

[Trill in reply to Beckett24]

Thanks Beckett24. No offence taken. But you've got to the point. I've got this far; I am on statins now; low blood pressure, no diabetes. Is there any room for compromise! I have not eaten any pork or lamb for very many years, and only a little beef. I suppose I eat 1-2 eggs a week. Milk in 4 tea/coffees per day and a little on cereal. Some yogurt. Some cheese but no longer great amounts. Fish and chicken about twice a week. I can cut down the quantities of all these things, but you have to weigh it up with quality of life. And I do eat vegetarian a reasonable amount - certainly, every meal we have out. And lunch.

OK no more salted peanuts! But the weekly Marmite on toast? Howl!

I rarely don't do some exercise each day, and have taken up Nordic walking - two hours a week but strenuous. How the heck do I accommodate the arthritis/spinal stenosis impact? They tell you to exercise - oh yes - must be aerobic - at nearly 70 don't you ever get left in peace to read or knit!

OK. I'll get the book!

[Beckett24 in reply to Trill]

Hi, Trill. I am no doctor, although most primary care physicians aren't real experts on CKD and a proper CKD diet. My new PCP (as of less than two years ago) told me to cut down the salt and protein - talk about generic. So my opinion is NOT a professional one. My opinion is that you are in better shape than most patients with CKD. According to Stopping Kidney Disease and How Not to Die (another great book), the only thing really hurting you appreciably is eating meat twice a week. Your medical conditions (which are few) are well managed. I imagine you are at a healthy weight as well and you exercise most days. I intend to start weight lifting again (I hate the new terms strength or resistance training - you are lifting weights - that is why it has been called weight lifting for so many decades, if not centuries). You might want to start light weight lifting if you have not already done so. Let me know what you think of the Lee Hull book after reading a few chapters.

[Trill in reply to Beckett24]

That's very helpful again. Yes - could drop the chicken. I refuse to eat it anyway if not free range. It's not easy when - like you, you're married and the other person is affected by food choices. Thanks for the weight-lifting idea but I don't think my joints would hold out long! Just need to walk more (I don't drive anyway). And yes, the doctor has tried to tell me I am not bad, but I had a shock finding out (always get medical test results) as it was only in 2017 and I had had it years and not been told and didn't even know what it was. Now maybe I know and fear too much!

[Beckett24 in reply to Trill]

Hi, Trill. In our age group, by weight lifting I meant using very light weights - certainly not big barbells - dumbbells of 2, 5 or 10 pounds and doing many reps. Weightlifting increases bone density so I doubt that they would hurt your joints (well, maybe a little at first LOL). A few years ago before we moved, my former next door neighbor went to the same gym I went to and he was doing a fair amount of weight on the weight machines - he was about 86 at the time, yes 86. Don't forget to tell me what you think of the Lee Hull book after you read a few chapters.

[Trill in reply to Beckett24]

Book arrived today. Got to Page 1! Seems pretty readable and am glad I have it. Defo going to start on it asap, in-between the weightlifting sessions, computer keyboard sessions, and the jigsaw. I mean it.

[Trill in reply to Beckett24]

Well, it's extremely good. Very readable. A most convincing argument supported by impeccable scientific references. I am in the middle of Chapter7.

I am going to have to give intense consideration of the writer's revelation that you cannot just reduce the kidney-damaging foods, as if you eat one of them a week and everything else is compliant, you have discarded the good you have done all that week.

I have yet to get into the difficult detail of what his diet specifically consists of, but it's ominous! So the jury is out as to what exactly I will do.

I fully understand that you have to limit your diet to what your diminished kidney function can deal with. That is very logical.

So far then, so good, and immensely interesting although alarming despite the author's arguments it's better than the alternative. I used not to feel frightened of having CKD3a after the first shock of discovery; now I am pretty terrified.

[gojets in reply to Beckett24]

Only 10 people in 10000 with CKD ever reach stage 5

The diet tips are great on this site but there is way too much gloom and doom

[Beckett24 in reply to gojets]

Actually, I read it's 5% or 500 out of 10,000 who do not make it to Stage 5. But what do you think happens to the other 95% of CKD patients who don't take care of themselves if they die before Stage 5, which means Stage 4? They die of CKD complications, usually heart failure, stroke or heart attacks and I am sure of other complications. So the need for gloom and doom is necessary and everyone with CKD should do everything they can to not reach Stage 4.

[Beckett24]

First of all, an acronym has periods after each of the letters - O.L.D. NOT "O.L.D"

Secondly, you should not be posting grossly inaccurate statistics.

Thirdly, where do you get off writing that I am angry? I was only trying to help you.

Good luck to you. You need it.

[gojets in reply to Beckett24]

Google it

Am I sick or just old

10 in 10000

CKD most over diagnosed disease in the USA