Amino Acids

[Bassetmommer]

I have been reading about using amino acids to help with kidney disease. Has any body used them? What was your results? Does it cause harm in any way?

[Hidden]

Have you asked your nephrologist? I've seen nothing in the media about Amino Acids and improvement in the health of those with CKD.

[steve680]

I think you're referring to the very-low protein diet described in the book "A 12-Step Treatment Program to Help You Avoid Dialysis" by Mackenzie Walser, M.D?? In the very-low protein diet one eats a very small amount of protein (about 20 grams for a 150 pound person) and supplements the protein with essential amino acid supplements so as not to become protein deficient. I'm not aware of anyone who's currently following this diet; there seems to be quite a few opinions whether this diet is effective in terms of preserving kidney function. However, in the book written by Walser, there are several case studies in which this diet was able to successfully defer dialysis for many years. Nephrologists will advise a low protein/restricted protein diet at some point as your kidney disease progresses, but the protein restriction is done to minimize the symptoms of protein metabolism, it isn't done to preserve kidney function. The low protein diet doesn't involve taking amino acid supplements. Whether the very-low protein diet is effective is a controversial issue. There also have been studies which indicate animal proteins are harmful to your kidneys as they will cause your kidneys to go into hyper filtration:

nutritionfacts.org/2018/02/...

"The consumption of animal fat can actually alter the structure of the kidney, and animal protein can deliver an acid load to the kidneys, increase ammonia production, and damage the sensitive kidney cells. This is why restricting protein intake is recommended for preventing kidney function decline—though it may be animal protein in particular that may need restricting, not just protein in general. So, the source of the protein, plant versus animal, may be more important than the amount regarding adverse health consequences. Animal protein intake profoundly affects normal human kidney function, inducing what’s called hyperfiltration, which increases the workload of the kidney. "

DaVita, the dialysis people, have a link on their website for following a vegetarian diet for people not yet on dialysis:

davita.com/kidney-disease/d...

The very-low protein described in the book written by Walser is not part of the standard training that nephrologists in the U.S. receive, so many of them have simply never heard of it.

[Bassetmommer NKF Ambassador in reply to steve680]

Thank you for the in-depth reply.Yes, I was referring to information from the book. However, in doing some research, there seems to be an abundant amount of information on the Intranet supporting the use of amino acids. I asked about it because I am never sure of the reliability of the intranet sources. I personally have reduced my animal protein consumption drastically and have seem a big improvement in my renal lab panels. I never was a big meat eater anyways. However, I did like my cheese and eggs. I have not noticed any difference in my energy levels due to the reduction of animal protein, but wondered if there was something I was missing.

We also process phosphorus from plant based items differently than we do from animal product ingestion.

[steve680 in reply to Bassetmommer]

There are certain vitamins and minerals you don't get when you go to a vegan diet, but you can probably get that info from a dietician (B vitamins, iron, zinc). BTW, what sort of improvement have you seen in your creatinine/BUN lab panels when reducing your animal protein consumption drastically? Which animal proteins do you still consume? Just curious as I will soon be switching over to a mostly vegetarian diet (with the help of a renal dietician).

I don't see a problem switching from a low protein diet to a very-low protein diet as long as you take the essential amino acid supplements described in the book. You can/should bounce this idea off of your dietician and/or doctor.

[Bassetmommer NKF Ambassador in reply to steve680]

Hi Steve, I stopped eating red meat in 1986. I did eat a lot of chicken and turkey however and so I cut way back on that. Now I may have some chicken once a week if that. I do eat eggs, or should I say egg whites about three times a week. My passion for cheese made it hard to give up, but I have cut down a lot, especially since it is so high in calories. I may have shredded low fat cheese now once or twice a week and on rare occasion, a piece of my favorite River Rat cheese. My creatinine has only dropped a little but my BUN went from 51 to 18. I also take a B6 to help with that. I also dropped my phosphorus and my potassium.

What does taking the amino acids do for you?

[steve680 in reply to Bassetmommer]

I'm not taking amino acids because I'm not on the very-low protein diet. I'm currently following a "restricted protein" diet. My nephrologist told me I should consume between 60 - 80 grams of protein per day, as opposed to eating about 100 grams of protein per day. The very-low protein diet is only about 20 grams of protein per day. I still need to see a renal dietician and I plan to go to a "low protein vegetarian" diet. The reason that the amino acids are in the very-low protein diet is so that you don't become protein deficient. If you're not following the very-low protein diet, then you shouldn't be consuming the amino acids. BTW, were you diagnosed with CKD in 1986? What stage is your disease in?

[SN23]

Hi

Thanks for raising this topic, I also recently read Dr Wasler’s book and a ton of literature supporting amino acids supplements and low protein diet for arresting CKD progression. I checked with my son’s nephrologist and he agrees as his renal dietician ( we finally found one🙏) has recommmended a low protein diet for him. But he could not recommend any supplement as none are fda approved (though apparently other countries have approved keto acid and amino supplements) but says that I could explore and check back with him. I saw that Dr Wasler has prescribed NutraminT to his patients. Any views/experiences in this regard would be very helpful. Thanks!