Electrical Stimulation

[KarenUSA]

Wondering if anyone has tried electrical stimulation as an alternative treatment for MS. So far I've had 5 sessions and my mental clarity seems sharper, my muscles feel comfortable, and I'm not as fatigued. My balance and spastic muscles are still the big issues for me after having this disease for 25 years. Curious to find out if anyone else has tried this. I'm at an age (71) and want to stay mobile as long as I can. The kind of electrical stimulation I'm getting is called Rife.

[plosed06]

I had e stim in PT to help with foot drop.

[erash]

KarenUSA

Are you referring to PONS? The under the tongue e-stim?

If so, I'm very interested. Can u tell us more? Where available, cost and experience? How long have u been using it?

[KarenUSA in reply to erash]

No, I hold a rod in each hand and current is felt. I see someone who does the treatment in his home. I've been doing it for 3 weeks while I'm a snow bird in Arizona. Don't know what I'll do when I go back home to Michigan.

[Iona60]

KarenUSA I've used a Cefaly, which is a tens unit in a tiara for migraines. It did help with daily usage. I've not heard of it for spasticity. I'll have to ask about it.

[KarenUSA in reply to Iona60]

This sharing of information has been great. I've learned the names of electrical stimulation treatments that I will persue when I get home.

[Jesmcd2 CommunityAmbassador]

Great subject KarenUSA l know some people swear by it, l live across from a chiropractor.😅 And of course he swears by it. Me? Will never have it again 😁😑 Bad. Bad experience.

But love to hear of great experience's!☺

Jes🌠

[KarenUSA in reply to Jesmcd2]

Perhaps I'll have investigate chiropractors who might do this treatment.

[erash in reply to Jesmcd2]

Jesmcd2 do you mind sharing what your experience was?

KarenUSA so it needs to continue routinely for best results? Do you know if there is a name for it I can google

Thanks!

[KarenUSA in reply to erash]

Google Rife electrical stimulation.

I was disappointed that what I read wasn't very specific for MS. Also the information seemed dated. But, since I've been getting treatments I've felt less fatigued and mentally sharp.

[Jesmcd2 CommunityAmbassador in reply to erash]

LOL erash it's seems to be my luck of the draw with PT and Chiro's. I don't fair well. Ugh. The chrio they sent me to for my back, put me in a small rm, put a tens unit on my back and said be right back. After 5 mins they didn't come back and l was in excruciating pain, hollowed out,and no one came in. 😑 Needless to say, l took matter's in my own hands! I got there attention when there machine went flying against the wall. I walked out and told in to KMA. ~shrugs~

Jes🌠

[erash in reply to Jesmcd2]

Good for you Jesmcd2

I love your spirit👊

[Jesmcd2 CommunityAmbassador in reply to erash]

Well???? I flppen hurt! 😅 And they never came back😕 It Was NOT my fault it was on wheels! And the thing just went flying ~shrugs~ and l limped out.😁 Someone mentioned sue, l said good idea. Never heard from them again. 🌠 I don't get people sometimes.

[Jesmcd2 CommunityAmbassador in reply to Jesmcd2]

erash posted above lol and thanks it's funny how not so funny then 😅

[MaryBee58 in reply to Jesmcd2]

I 2nd erash's comment - love your spirit. What were they thinking? Or rather, weren't thinking?

[Jesmcd2 CommunityAmbassador in reply to MaryBee58]

Lol MaryBee58 l have no idea what they were thinking! Butler bet they didn't think that way again!!! 😁😄😄

Jes🌠

~Helpful Hint~ If put an @ in front of person of who your addressing, they will be notified. IE @ jesmcd2 *With No Spaces*

[GasLight]

I've done it, and I've also tried a slight variation that worked quite well.

The variant involved doing low-intensity workouts on a vibrating platform (I know, vibration stimuli and electrical stimuli are not the same thing, but the two therapies both rely upon medium frequency oscillation to achieve their results-- one mechanical, and the other electrical). Here's one of the resources that I still had on my laptop from back during that period.

community.mssociety.org.uk/...

I remember feeling as though I were standing on a TENS unit when I participated in this therapy (from the standpoint of having repeated, micro-spasms of an involuntary nature).

Like I said, my anecdotal experience with both this therapy and TENS was very positive, and I wish that I'd been able to continue each.

I also believe that Terry Wahls used an electrical stimulative therapy as a large component of her reportedly successful program.

Best,

-- Christopher

[KarenUSA in reply to GasLight]

Yes, I knew Dr Wahls used electrical stimulation and I'd like to find out more about the kind of therapy she used in addition to her nutrition protocol. I'll checkout the link you offered also.

[GasLight in reply to KarenUSA]

KarenUSA , here are some materials outlining the NEMS program in which Dr. Wahls participated:

terrywahls.com/wp-content/u...

You have to search a bit to find it within the loads of diet-related stuff on her website (which, by the way, would be a great starting point to get answers on your second question).

If you get very serious about the diet program, I think that her website also provides information regarding seminars, and a directory of providers who are trained in the Wahls Protocol.

Hope that this all helps,

-- c

[KarenUSA in reply to GasLight]

Thank you for the link. Very helpful to have this information to read and think about.

[Hidden in reply to KarenUSA]

pages 253 to 260 in her book The Wahls Protocol

[KarenUSA in reply to Hidden]

Thanks. I'll read those pages.

[Juleigh21]

I started using a TENS unit at PT a couple of years ago for the severe back spasms I get on the right side of my mid-back. I find I don't need as many muscle relaxants when I use it.

[Taylorsmom]

Hi KarenUSA . I've never heard of electrical stimulation. Can you provide me details about the treatment. I have an appointment with my neurologist this Friday and I think I may want to discuss this with him.

[KarenUSA in reply to Taylorsmom]

The treatment I'm getting is called Rife. From what people are posting, there are several forms of electrical stimulation.

[Hidden]

Hi Karen - I've read Terry Wahls' book (The Wahls Protocol) which is mostly about diet but e-stem is something she also used in her recovery. I'm very interested in trying it but I don't know where to find someone who does this therapy. I have the name of a PT in town that works with MS folks so I had planned to contact her and see if she uses it. But if I could get my own I'd like that better. Do you need a professional to show you how to use it? I'd love to hear more about your experience with this.

[KarenUSA in reply to Hidden]

I'm going to a person who does the treatment in his home. It sounds rather "new age" as an alternative medicine. I don't know of any units you could get to use at home.

[Lisacpa in reply to Hidden]

Dr. Wahls did NEMS (neuroelectric muscle stimulation, I believe). PTs are the folks who can hook you up with one but you need a prescription from your doctor. Since she’s an MD, she got it more easily.

Someone mentioned PONS & that’s what I’m waiting for! I read about it in a great book called “The Brain’s Way of Healing” by Dr. Norman Doidge. It’s a wonderful book & I highly recommend it. Amazon sells it of course; I wonder if you can find it at your library or if the MSAA has it in their lending library.

[Hidden in reply to Lisacpa]

Since I wrote the previous message I've started working with a PT who is using NMES on me and it's been amazing how it stimulates my weakened muscles. You can get a unit without a prescription. They sell them on Amazon and other places for about $60. I haven't read Doidge's book but I've read others on neuroplasticity. PONS sounds interesting. I'd like to learn more about it. I'll check out his book. Thanks!

[Lisacpa in reply to Hidden]

Thanks. Does it actually hurt (NMES), as Dr. Wahls described? I’m willing to put up with a “positive” pain...I think! I’m about to seek out PT again & might mention NMES.

[Hidden in reply to Lisacpa]

I have a TENS unit at home that I also bought on Amazon. I use it on my lower legs sometimes in the evenings when the neuropathic pain is driving me nuts. It works on the same principle. I attach the electrodes and start on a lower setting, and turn it up in increments. It helps the pain. When my PT started using the NMES on me, she was shocked (pun intended) at how high she can set the machine, but she said that has been true with her other MS patients too. It actually feels great to me. They will start you at a very low setting and only move it up based on your feedback. So fear not! You'll be in control. I can't lift my right leg high enough to step over the side of my bathtub. But when she is working with me, she attaches electrodes to my ham strings and alternates with other muscles, and when the zap begins I lift my leg and can lift it much higher when the muscle is stimulated. It keeps your muscles from atrophying. I find it to be a positive experience. I have some info from Dr. Wahls that I printed out and took to her. If your PT has never heard of working with MS patients this way, you can take them some info to explain the study she and 2 other doctors did. They published a couple of papers on it. I was lucky enough to have a PT in my community who understands MS pathology and works with people with neuromuscular diseases. So I would definitely recommend giving it a try.

[Miriade in reply to Hidden]

Hi KerryOkie, I also have Tens at home, bought years ago at Amazon when Iwas in flare up with frequent backspasms in waves and other parts. They work very well and in fact are comfortable when increase the speed, frequency. My init can be change to six variations in shocks, intensitiy and sleed level. The machine looks like a little Ipad, with graphics to choose. Also I bought supplies that are reusable couple times and gel that are very important for better connectividade.without the gel does not work well. Its like trying to do EKG without gel not having good electrical signal either.Always have to use positive and negative pole as all electrical signals. Its rechargable. I dont remever the brand now. I do not use for long time because I am using copper in my feet as insoles and copper in my neck and copper in my middle ring in my bad side of body where I have numbness. All to make negative ions to neutralize the positive and make better signal in the body. It has been working well and control my neck spasms also. My infra red electrical roller do the rest as anti inflamatory. Besides my neodymium big belt.

[Hidden in reply to Miriade]

Very interesting. I'm going to look into the copper and neodymium. I've found a near infrared light panel I want to order. My husband and I would both benefit from infrared therapy I believe. Thanks for the info.

[Miriade in reply to Hidden]

I have a big infra red lamp, then I found the solution how to use not too much close to me without holding: I bought a clothes drier tripe hanger to keep my infra red 30in far from me and I use kitchen timer 30 minutes to reminder to turn off. Works great for all inflamatory situations.

[KarenUSA]

Was your PT electrical stim effective long term?

I used to wear a Bioness L300 for foot drop. I thought it worked and kept the muscles active even though they weren't getting the nerve signals. My new physical medicine doctor put me in an AFO because it helped position my knee better soo wasn'thyperextending it so much.

[BillD999 in reply to KarenUSA]

@KarenUSA, I'm sorry but I don't know what an AFO is, is that a brace of some type?

[KarenUSA in reply to BillD999]

An AFO (ankle foot orthosis) is a brace that does indeed flex the foot so you don't trip and stub your toes.

[BillD999]

I have had electrical stimulation applied by my chiropractor and it seems to help with my lower back issues but I have not noticed any other benefit. Of course the area he is targeting is not really the area most affected by my MS.

I also purchased a small portable unit that I use sometimes to stimulate specific muscles. It seems to help a little but I think the very low power output of the small unit limits its effectiveness.

Dr Wahls does does discuss this therapy in her book and I would recommend that to anyone interested.

[KarenUSA in reply to BillD999]

Yes, I'm very interested in what Dr Wahls used for electrical stimulation. I will persue finding this type of treatment.

[agapepilgrim]

KarenUSA Let me have that medicine tomorrow!!!! I'm 71 and symptoms like yours going down worse every day. Became allergic to Aubagio. Now on Capoxone. Neither hrlped with severe cogitovebisues nor recurring inflammation in lungs. I need tonyo try that med!!!!

[KarenUSA in reply to agapepilgrim]

At our age, it's all about getting symptom relief. Finding treatments that improve our life is a challenge.

[AngieRowe]

I have had on knee by PT and it did help withpain

[Jbahnan]

hello Karen, I got bioness a month ago, I have right foot drop. it helps me a lot its very expensive 7900, but I don't put a price on my health. GOOD LUCK in the future.

[KarenUSA]

My Bioness L300 is several years old and I want to get tuned up and start wearing it again. My AFO fits only in certain shoes and I want to wear other styles of shoes. I always liked how the Bioness unit took care of my foot drop. But it did nothing to prevent me from looking my knee.