Wahls Protocol

[erash]

Anyone else following the Wahls Protocol? I've had good results but keep falling off the wagon due to a well meaning spouse, poor self control and life stress. Need a nonjudgmental inspiration to kick me in the butt 😊

[Jesmcd2 CommunityAmbassador]

I have never heard of it

What is it exactly?

[erash in reply to Jesmcd2]

Nutritional guide to improve your MS based on gut microbiota and inflammation. While I was slow to adopt this, the MS research Is now assessing and seems to think there's validity. I know it's made a difference in my balance and coordination--better when I stick with it. There are 3 levels. I've tried to follow level 2, or the Wahls Paleo protocol.

[agate in reply to erash]

I'm sorry but I'm not at all well impressed with the Wahls protocol but if it works for you, it probably won't do any harm.

[erash in reply to agate]

Curious why not impressed?

[agate in reply to erash]

While Dr. Wahls's credentials seem good and she looks quite well in her photos (she's 60 years old, I think), she's making claims to have found a cure for MS.

A quote from her Website:

"Wahls took the natural healing power of food to reverse her irreversible MS within a year, going from riding a tilt-recline wheelchair to competing in an 18-mile bicycle tour with her own version of the paleo diet without prescription drugs.

"

This is probably baloney. Her remarkable recovery may have been due to a remission in the disease, or due to her having gained better control of some of the symptoms through more careful management (including diet), but she didn't "reverse her irreversible MS." Can't be done though people sometimes claim to have done it.

Her diet includes meat but no grains. I wouldn't like being on it. I think grains are important and I like them. I'm a lacto-ovo-vegetarian. It's what works for me. I'm interested in saving money and not having a lot of grease to clean up in the kitchen. And supposedly a vegetarian diet makes you less likely to develop certain types of cancer and helps to keep cholesterol low.

Dr. Wahls may truly believe in her diet and her theory about mitochondria. I just wonder about anyone who makes exaggerated claims.

__________________

[erash in reply to agate]

Agree, claims seem exaggerated, and some of her recommendations are counter to my medical background but there is much in the current literature about the association of gut flora and illness and health. It's an emerging area of research.

[agate in reply to erash]

There might be something in the mitochondria idea. I'm just uneasy about anyone who is clearly selling something.

[Nom_De_Plume in reply to agate]

@agate, I'm just reading this older thread and I came across your comment. I'm also very much interested in any research that might have been done, or that is underway, regarding the mitochondria, its dysfunction, and inordinate fatigue in autoimmune diseases, such as MS. Have you found any and what are your thoughts?

Thanks. 😊

[agate in reply to Nom_De_Plume]

@Nom_De_Plume, I haven't looked into this issue much at all but for a start, there is this though it's a paper that came out in 2006, not exactly recently:

pdfs.semanticscholar.org/bb...

It's a fairly technical article. I'll try to find some more information and get back to you but it may be a few days yet.

[erash in reply to agate]

agate and Nom_De_Plume

So based on my limited understanding of this research, unless we can fix the homeostasis at the neuronal cellular level, the imbalance between glutamate and GABA causes unchecked energy demand and fatigued neurons?

Seems like a simple fix (hah!) Just give more GABA (benzos anyone 😉 ?)

Need a biochemist/neuroscientist here 😊

[Nom_De_Plume in reply to erash]

Thanks @erash! I'm thinking of all the GABA agonists we're on to reduce spasticity, and how exhausting they are! I'll poke around too and see what I can find. I'm curious about mitochondrial diseases and any overlap with MS.

[Nom_De_Plume in reply to agate]

@agate Thank you! I didn't mean for you to have to look up info. I can research it as well. I've just often suspected a mitochondrial component to the disease but it seemed a little far-flung. I'll get off my butt and look into it. Sometimes we don't trust our own instincts, which is stupid, especially when it comes to MS and our own bodies. At least I find that's true for me! When I saw your comment last night, I was excited and thought maybe you were already familiar with the mechanism and could give me a "fast-forward" look at what scientists theorize goes wrong at the cellular level in MS patients (apart from the demyelination) that would cause the inordinate fatigue. I was never really satisfied with the conduction delays being the sole explanation. I had heard scientists say they really didn't know. Anyways, I'm rambling. I'll look into it too and will let you know what I find. Its a busy week so it will take me a while. If you have time too, great. If not, no worries. Thanks again. 😊

[erash in reply to Nom_De_Plume]

Nom_De_Plume

Look forward to what you uncover.

Yes, the GABA agonists we take likely create another imbalance in the opposite direction.

Man made attempts at homeostasis are rarely exactly bioeqivalent 🙁

At this point, we experiment with what seems to work for us?

[agate in reply to Nom_De_Plume]

This might be of some use--at least it shows that work is currently going forward:

mssociety.org.uk/role-mitoc...

[Nom_De_Plume in reply to agate]

Thanks, agate !!

[Lisacpa in reply to agate]

I tried to follow her diet but I just can't. Not easy to give up wheat, ALL dairy, have only grass-fed beef, etc.etc. She also got a unit used by physical therapists to stimulate her muscles, claiming that it causes her to release endorphins...if pain worked like that for me, I'd be high as a kite. Alas, I am not.

I bought her first book at $40, and it is the worst book I've read that appears to have had NO editing. Lots of repetition, disorganized. I tried to ask her questions on her Facebook page, but it's her way or the highway. She is not interested in any debate. I called her to account because of the outrageous price of her book, reminding her that many of us already face financial difficulties, and for her to charge so much is unconscionable.

Finally, her study was extremely small. It is probably the truth that diet at least affects the development and/or the progression of MS and other conditions. But there is something else at work, too. For interested parties, just Google "MS Wahl's protocol.

[jackiesj in reply to Lisacpa]

Honestly, anyone can do a research project and make claims.Where surveys are taken, real data, people etc.I actually know someone for a summer job was given permission to write terms in a medical dictionary for doctors.He was 3rd year education for Harvard....no MD behind the name etc.To save fear, there are many reputable(research name etc) companies.My doctor when I asked about this said..."I am called a PRACTISING physician, I am practicing all the time on you....!" Best most honest doc ever had...retired.

[jackiesj in reply to agate]

One day in choir someone had heard about MS, stood up and proclaimed " pure natural oils....These oils that I sell will even cure cancer....!than why aren't they given away and cancer etc eradicated?!I'm happy when something helps someone from not suffering but...If its too good to be true.....SUPRISE.Greed follows so many sites.Snake oil sales people have ruled forever. but not over common sense...sorry if you are a snake oil sales person...

[CherieMSCN in reply to Jesmcd2]

The Wahls diet takes us back to what the caveman used to eat. Highly meat oriented and vegetable products that are readily available in the wild. Eliminates all processed and pre-prepared foods frozen or canned or breads or dried. None of our cereals would make the grade in this diet. Most of our fruits, not available then, are also knocked off the menu.

[Lisacpa in reply to CherieMSCN]

See, my theory is that in those days, people ate whatever they could get their hands on! I just don't believe anyone can reliably say what cave people ate, especially considering the massive migrations we humans have made. Fewer processed foods are definitely better, and maximum vegetable intake is great. I doubt it's possible to truly eat a "Paleo" diet; most likely many plants from those days are either extinct or in short supply.

[Fancy1959]

Hey ladies it's Fancy1959. It doesn't matter if we think good or bad about the Wahls Protocol, it has been proven over and over again that the good bacteria in our gut or lack thereof can affects our health and our body on so many levels it is hard to ignore. I know I have never actually checked into the Wahls Protical theory, which I probably should, but I have taken a probiotic for years to help keep the good bacteria levels high in my stomach. I used a probiotic supplement heavily when I managed our thoroughbred boarding farm. All the mares and foals were on it I had very little stomach issues/colic on the farm which were common problem on many other Farms. I have to post this question comma what would it hurt check into it and follow it for a couple months to see if it did make a difference on our individual MS? It looks like we have nothing to lose here ladies and gentlemen but a lot to gain. Remember information is good. And together we are stronger. Fight on, Warriors fight on!

[erash in reply to Fancy1959]

Thanks for the open mind--agree it may not be a panacea but food s strong medicine regardless

[CherieMSCN in reply to erash]

Food is, after all, the original medicine that our species relied upon.

[Lisacpa in reply to Fancy1959]

It's based on much more than probiotics. Read my reply above.

[Kj9681]

Yes! I was actually also on the MS direct diet she spoke of before I went Walhs on the world. Yes! It helps. Diet is as important as the meds...even more. I'm a warrior that also happens to be a RN, and Dr Terry did us a favor. For motivation, think of how you felt 10 yrs ago and think of 10 yrs from now. Diet will prevent a lot of symptoms, and we CAN control what we put in our mouths. I've been told by MDs that diet is one of the reasons that I'm still on my feet. Hope this helps.

[erash in reply to Kj9681]

Any suggestions on how to stick with it? I know feeling better should be enough motivation in itself...

[Kj9681 in reply to erash]

I'd have to agree with TRIKEMAN... I will add however, that dairy is not at all good for our guts. The molecules are simply too large and thus incompatible with our bodies.

[CherieMSCN in reply to Kj9681]

I am also a warrior RN who happens to have MS and draws on many venues to stay healthy.

[TrikeMan]

I've has some success with managing late-life onset RRMS via diet and exercise activity, tho I am still disabled work-wise with balance, walking, and fatigue problems. I am no worse off after 2 years, knock on wood.

I did the Wahls protocol religiously per the book for 3 or 4 months, but went broke on the grocery bill, $600/month for me alone. She has a lot more disposable income than i do, definitely a Whole Foods sort of shopper. I am on limited income, $400/mo is all I can afford and budget for food. I am definitely a Kroger what's-on-sale-but-not-the-junk shopper.

The Wahl's Protocol is still the core of my diet, but I modified the Wahls somewhat to fit my budget, and focused my diet on what I considered building block food ingredients for re-building myelin and spinal contents. My diet is basically fruits and veggies, some milk/yogurt, a serving of salmon a day, lots of omega oils (fish and olive), plus some supplements especially in winter months. And water, drink lots of water, half your body weight daily.

My thinking was if something was eating myelin away, let me try to replace it so it can repair itself, or if not that I'll at least be throwing some sacrificial building block food components at whatever is eating me up, and let it eat that instead of me. The water helps transport things, keeps my blood thinner (normal) so the body works better.

OK, as to your other stuff -- falling off the wagon due to a well meaning spouse, poor self control and life stress -- hate to say it but it sounds like MS is managing you rather than you managing your MS. It comes down to just saying "no" a lot, and being more assertive about seeing that YOU get what YOU need. Not sure exactly what you mean by "life stress", but if that involves stress eating, especially off-protocol stuff, you just have to stop it. At least change it to something like raw vegetables that are somewhat good for you and won't put your system out of whack.

No need to be an a-hole about it insisting what you need with your loving support group, just be firm and clearly spell out what you want and need, as many times as is necessary until you get it. And if you don't get it the way you need it, get it yourself.

I had a well-meaning spouse, still do, who tried to make "good for me" things but it wasn't just the "right stuff", it tended to be mixed with starchy and carb laden stuff (potatoes, rice, pasta, bread) that is pretty common out there in kitchens and restaurants but not what you need. I just had to lay down the law, say no, this is what i needed, and we even got to the point after a couple of months and where we are now, where I buy and prep my own food, and she does hers. We still eat together and prep together, it is just different stuff and the kitchen is a little busier as we stumble over each other, her figuratively and me literally.

Hope that helps - just one MSer's spin on sticking to Wahl's Protocol.

[erash in reply to TrikeMan]

Very helpful and appreciated words

[sandranv in reply to TrikeMan]

I need to try this Krogers way it sounds a lot more affordable

[agapepilgrim in reply to TrikeMan]

My husband (since he does the shopping for us) discovered if he goes to Kroger early in the morning a lot of the produce is marked 50% off! I freeze it, or stir fry in coconut nut, or cook in a veggie soup and freeze in portions and we save a lo, especially if we remember to go on Thursdays, senior discount day. This summer was great, with double fuel points on weekend! Sometimes we would get 30 cents off on gas! I am a Kroger fan!

[TrikeMan in reply to agapepilgrim]

Well done on your end. Each Kroger is a little different regarding senior discount day (here it is weds) and the day of week/time of day the 50% mark-downs show up. Sounds like you have yours nailed! I don't drive much anymore here, switched to adult tricycle for most grocery gets, so unfortunately fuel points are wasted on me.

[erash]

Nice discussion. Thanks everyone 😊

[CherieMSCN]

There is NO DIET that works for everyone with MS. I fully believe watching all her videos and reading her book that she has gone into remissions that she interprets as being the result of the way she eats modifying her immune system. I have heard positive things from folks with MS who have tried the diet plan and felt that their MS had calmed and they were doing better... BUT...it does not work for everyone, is difficult to comply with and is costly if one is true to the eating plan. Eat reasonably! Eliminate processed sugars and a lot of fat and preservatives and dyes and you will likely find similar results easier and at a lower cost.

[BillD999]

I have been following this diet fairly strictly for over a year, and I had given up gluten and dairy for a year before that. It is a difficult diet and certainly no cure but I believe it has helped slow the progression of my SPMS. The main themes of the diet are no gluten or dairy, low carbs, low sugar and lots of fruits and veggies. Very little processed food. Meat is allowed and fish; she recommends the healthiest types of these (grass fed, no antibiotics, no farmed fish). Grains are allowed but only whole grains, and they should not be a staple as they are in most American diets.

We are accustomed to quick results when we pop a pill. Food is not like that, it takes time to see benefit. Also I believe the craving for carbs and sugar becomes less the longer one follows the diet. That has been my experience anyway. I wish I was better myself at following this, I still have my lapses and it is very hard to consume the amount of veggies she recommends in a day, but I think it is well worth the effort.

[MarkUpnorth]

Just saw this, so hopefully you will see it. I've been "inspired by the Whal's Protocol, eating healthy since I was pulled out of a near comatose state by surviving on juicing only (1.5-2 yrs), then vitamixing fruits and veg's (another 1+ yrs), to now eating more normally, however, still staying away from processed foods. 90% of my diet is still fruits and vegetables, with side dishes of meats and seafood. No, I'm not 100% true to the cause. I even bought and split a fried twinkie 4 ways while visiting friends "down south" last week. A quarter....knew it was the ultimate porn food, but enjoyed it. Anyway. Look up my other posts. I'm all about the wonders proper nutrition has done for me. I've got my wife on board, because now as the stay at home partner, I do all the cooking. It may be all that I can do many days, but I love it. She does too. Who wouldn't like waking up to breakfast, have lunch made to go, and dinner all ready when you get home. I went from running companies, to the kitchen. I could never do it as a job, because I couldn't cut it in endurance, memory,...even taste? I know I tend to over season the food, but seldom is anything ever said. I search regular recipes on the internet, choose those I think I can make work, altering them to be healthy, and shop the produce market. You can alter a lot. Example, easy: It may not be paleo, but almond flour pancakes, and carrot bacon, is an example. Juicing is super easy. Vitamixing it is too. Both are super healthy.

IT WORKS FOR ME. The drugs never did. If you slip, just get right back on the horse! Speaking of horses, my wife and I went to visit old friends this past week. They wanted to do the Virginia Creeper Trail. 17 miles downhill on a bike. Little peddling. Told them I couldn't ride anymore, unless maybe on a tryke (thinking of a recumbent with 2 front wheels). The only thing that the bike shops could come up with was a regular tryke (2 rear wheels), which my one friend warned me, you have to lean away from the way you turn. He rode one for 20 years at the automotive plants he was a hydraulics fitter at, carrying tools in the rear. I have little balance, hence the use of a cane. But telling myself nonstop, lean towards the edge of the cliff to get away from it......Yeah right! Luckily I crashed many times in areas where there was no drop. I made it a tenth of the way down, and switched with my friend to try his standard bike. He took off, acting like a goof riding it on two wheels with full control. I made it down on his regular bike, with 100% concentration on the bike, not daring to look and enjoy the scenery, just the bike. Almost, but never crashed! And had to have my hands pried from it when I got down. But, I rode a bike again! Who needs skydiving! Celebrated that evening with a salad with pulled BBQ pork and a home dressing at an open air local restaurant!

P.S. Sorry, I know I'm long winded these days. My texts too. It's all the time I have these days. No more 16 hour work days / 100+ hour work weeks! But now I can't keep my eyes open past 9pm.

[erash in reply to MarkUpnorth]

MarkUpnorth

Totally agree about healthy lifestyle, nutrition, exercise etc.

I bought a regular trike last year. My balance is too poor for a 2wheeler. I concur re. lean back a little.

Fried Twinkie 😬 I've never tried and won't in case I liked it 😊

[kdali]

Do you allow yourself days or meals per month to be off the diet?