Ask me a question, are these negative thoughts that come into your head about harming yourself and those you love most symptoms of OCD or could it be depression? I thought I had depression for a long time, only after I learned about the existence of the OCD drug.
TOC OU DEPRESSION?: Ask me a question, are... - My OCD Community
TOC OU DEPRESSION?
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vencedora
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I'm not a therapist and I didn't interview you, so unfortunately I cannot answer your question and tell you whether you're depressed or have OCD. All I can do is give you some insights based on my personal experience, hoping they may help.
It's known that depression is fertile ground for OCD. If you feel down, you'll tend to believe the worse possibilities like touching a doorknob barehanded will make you sick, you're a danger to the public, you aren't worth anything, etc. So, you'll be ready to do anything not to touch a doorknob barehanded, not to be a danger to others, to make amends (confessing imaginary faults or incessantly seeking reassurance) for your lack of worth, etc. That's OCD.
As your mood lifts, you'll start to believe that the probability of getting sick after touching a doorknob baredhanded is insignificant, that there are no good reasons to believe you're a danger to yourself or others and that's good enough, that you're a person worth to be loved and respected (no need to constantly confess or seek validation from others), etc. That's a healthier way of life that will further boost you mood. It's a virtuous cycle.
Whether you're depressed or not, negative thoughts may come into your head, from time to time, about harming. They may be more frequent if you're depressed. However, if you're in a good frame of mind, you won't pay much attention to them. If not, you may dwell on them and come to wrongly believe they reflect your true self.
My life is peaceful, I work, I have a boyfriend and a family that loves me, I'm happy with everything I have. My only moments of anguish and sadness are when these thoughts of death and harm to those I love most come. This is my doubt as to whether it is depression or OCD. These symptoms started when I was 21 years old and today I'm 35 years old and I've never gotten rid of them completely. I was symptom-free for about two years when I met my boyfriend, and after two years these terrible thoughts came back again.
So, if I understand correctly, everything is more or less fine in your life, beside that specific domain where thoughts of death or harm pop into your mind. Here are few questions if you don't mind.
1. Do you accept that it's normal to have "bad thoughts" popping into your head from to time? It happens to everybody. They are meaningless. Just ignore them and carry on with your regular activities.
2. Are you willing to accept that it's how you react towards those unwanted thoughts that makes them sticky? The more you dwell on them, the more credibility you give them.
3. Do you know that OCD is a doubting disease? It makes you doubt your good intentions towards your loved ones, whether you're in the right relationship, whether normal hygiene practices are enough to stay healthy, etc. It's not always easy, but to overcome those excessive doubts, you need to require good reasons to believe something and be satisfied with them.
4. Do you believe that everything is possible, but some things are more probable than others? Yes, it's possible I may become a psychopath overnight, but nothing in my past indicates it. It's reasonable to trust certain things. Imagine a life where you didn't trust anything.
5. Is it really important to know whether you have depression or OCD? Comorbidities are frequent. It's when you suffer from more than one disorder. Depression and OCD feed each other. It's depressing to have OCD, and depression makes you more vulnerable to unwanted intrusive thoughts.
I think my biggest problem is not accepting having these thoughts and wanting to get rid of them at all costs. Sometimes I wonder if I'm the only one who has these thoughts and why I have them.
You aren't the only one. From time to time, thoughts of causing harm to someone else pop into my head, but I don't give them heed, so they fade away on their own. You probably know about the pink elephant paradox: the more you try to suppress a thought, the more it sticks to you mind.
Why we're having those thoughts is an interesting question. Maybe because our imagination is free and can't stop creating all kinds of wild scenarios. It happens in our dreams. However, it's the role of our judgment (prefrontal cortex) to ultimately decide how best to live our lives, not the role of our imagination.
There is no miracle cure to OCD. There is no perfect solution. We need to make a tough choice: either we give in to ruminations over the possibility of harming others and accept the negative consequences of our choice, or we refrain from ruminating. In the end, we're glad to have made the right choice. Sitting on the fence (to give in to ruminations, and, at the same, not wanting the negative consequences that ruminations have on our lives) isn't a viable option.
Thank you for your words, tips and advice. Talking to you makes me calmer.
You're welcome. I'm glad you feel calmer.
We're often going through two cycles in life.
1. A vicious cycle: If you feel agitated, your thoughts are more disturbing. If you're having more disturbing thoughts, you can't focus on the activities you want to carry out. If you can't focus on the life you really want to live, you feel agitated (with good reasons), and so forth.
2. A virtuous cycle: If you feel calmer, your thoughts are less disturbing. If you're having less disturbing thoughts, you can live the life you really want to live. If you can live the life you really want to live, you feel calmer (with good reasons), and so on.
Great placement.
Thank you. I forgot to mention one more point. The timing of therapeutic efforts. The worst feeling is when we can't function normally and we want to function normally. It's why I don't wait until OCD hit me full blast before I start to live the life I really want to live.
But do you think that OCD will somehow one day win this battle we face with it?
It depends on us. It's like with drinking. Some people can return to a sober life again with appropriate treatment. When alcohol or OCD impairs your judgment and abilities, there isn' t much you can do. However, there are times when your "demons", so to speak, leave you alone. It's when you need to take measures to prevent another crisis and live the life you really want to live. It's called being proactive.
Let me ask you a question if you don't mind. Do you dwell on the possibilty of causing harm because you can't help it, or because you honestly think it's helpful in preventing bad things from happening?
Because it's something I don't want to do, because they are the people I love most and would protect until the end, so I can't accept thinking that about them. I really wanted to banish these thoughts from my head forever. I think if the thoughts were with other people who weren't so close to me, I wouldn't be so distressed.
I understand your fervent wish to banish those thoughts. Let me ask two questions, if you don't mind.
1. Do you really think that you'll be able to banish those thoughts by constantly dwelling on them? You tried that method in the past. Did it work?
2. Are there times when you can forget the issue that's presently tormenting you? For instance, when you engage in an interesting conversation, you're watching an exciting movie, or enjoying a delicious meal? If it's possible to forget the issue in question in those instances, then it's possible, maybe more difficult especially if the activity is challenging, to forget it in other instances.
Answering your questions:
1- It didn't work, it seems that the more I don't accept having them, the more they appear.
2- Yes and Yes. I have happy and normal moments as if they had never appeared in my head, then there are days when they appear like a black cloud that darkens everything. But I've had much worse moments before I found out about the existence of OCD, I could barely work, I didn't want to get out of bed, leave the house, without knowing what I had and why this was happening to me. Today when they appear I feel bad but I already know it's this OCD "plague".
I feel a great fear of not being able to control these thoughts and OCD will overcome me. Because it seems like he orders "go, do this and you will feel better and the anguish will end" But I know that if I did it would be much worse, I would die of sadness and anguish.
I understand your concern for the safety of your loved ones. It's quite normal. However, if you could help it, that is, if you had the choice whether to turn this concern into an obsession or not, would you turn it into an all-consuming obsession?
It's important to decide whether this obsession is something you really want in your life or it's something that happens to you against your will.
If you really value that obsession, nothing can change that. It's a choice you deliberately made after consideration.
If that obsession is ego-dystonic, that is, it runs contrary to your values, then you don't need to find more arguments to persuade yourself to get rid of it. The debate is over. You decided to get rid of it. You only need to find the ability to do so.
That clarification is important because some people are ambivalent towards their obsession. One part of them wants to get rid of it. Another part of them wants to keep it because they wrongly think that getting rid of it means they don't care and increases the chances for the worst-case scenario to happen.
This obsession goes very against my values, if it were the other way around, I wouldn't feel so bad about it. I will try to follow your advice and always remember that they are caused by the OCD plague.
I too am going through this right now where I feel so down and depressed. And I am working on labeling it my ocd. I know I have to accept the anxiety and uncomfortable feeling, but I keep finding myself doing mental compulsions or rituals like wishing this wasn’t happening and wondering when it will get better. And also just a lot of doubt that it will get better. It’s really annoying. I’ve gone through this in the past too and I’ve overcome it, but right now it’s just so sticky. More than it has felt in the past.
Sinto muito que esteja passando por isso também, que a gente consiga se libertar de tudo isso. Boa sorte!
I also go through some gloomy periods. It's part of being human I guess. Life is not a quiet river. Sometimes looking at the big picture and asking how I'd like to spend the rest of my life helps ride the bumps.
I hear you. It is just really hard because I know subconsciously how long it usually takes me to feel better, and I keep thinking about it and how I’m at that point and soon close to passing it, yet still feeling anxious and scared. And I know that’s a compulsion but it’s hard to move past the emotional rituals and ignore the feeling sad and crumby. I really wish I knew a better way of getting over it then just agreeing with it and accepting that I am feeling this way. The hardest part is the doubt. Doubting it will get better. And I know I need to treat that as ocd as well. But man, it really stinks.
I get you. Like I just said to vencedora above, it looks like there are often two cycles in life, a vicious self-destructive cycle and a virtuous fulfilling one. I do my best to fall in the second one, not the first one.
May I ask some stratifies that you use when you’re going through some of the more sad times? How to pull yourself out of it? I’m trying a lot of the fake it until you make it and bossing back and agreeing with ocd, but I’m just stuck.
One main strategy is the timing of my therapeutic efforts. OCD doesn't attack us uniformly. There are good days and bad days. There are peaks and valleys. When an OCD spike hits me hard, I prefer to wait for the storm to abate. It feels too overwhelming to fight it.
There are times when we can indulge our OCD with impunity and times when consequences of our behavior catch up with us and there is nothing we can do about it. I remember the worst I felt was when an important deadline was looming at work and I felt unable to prepare for it because I was bombarded with intrusive thoughts.
However, there are times when we have more control over the "beast". It's when I need to step up my efforts and try to live the life I really want to live.
A crucial question is, do we do ruminations or compulsions because we can't help it or because we think it's justified? In the first case, there is no need to find arguments to persuade us to live a normal life. It's a matter of waiting for normal abilities to return. In the second case, it's a matter of thinking straight and reaching a conclusion within a reasonable amount of time, in spite of the difficulties.
It's what seems to work for me. I hope it helps.
Thank you for that explanation. I’ll give that a try to look at it that way and see if it helps!
Clinical depression is a common co-morbidity with OCD. It’s usually secondary to the OCD but it can be primary too.
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