Is it wrong to take your none verbal but very vocal backwards person into a pub/restaurant for a meal even if it disturbs other people?

[deborahcoxsuckle]

My 57 year old backwards son is none verbal but very vocal which means he's constantly makes lots of noises, he's also very hyperactive rocking back to forth and hand flipping. I'm used to his behaviours and it doesn't bother me being his mother. I take him for pub lunches but we had a new staff from his care company who accompanied us to the pub yesterday and he was uncomfortable with my sons behaviours, now its normal for my son to clear most of the tables around us. I think it's good for my son to access the community, but it got me thinking is it incondiarate taking him for pubs lunches when he's loud? What do you think?

[MontyCat]

This is a sensitive issue. My view is that it is not 'wrong' for your son to access facilities in the community, just as anyone else would do and he has a perfect right to do so, but there are obviously considerations in regard to the effect of his behaviours on other members of the public. Nobody wants to alienate people who simply want to have a quiet meal, but the dilemma you have is symptomatic of the general lack of understanding and tolerance of neuro-divergent behaviours in our society. In a perfect world, your son would be accepted wherever he went, but sadly we don't live in an anywhere near perfect world.

Ultimately I guess this comes down to your own conscience, unless you can find ways to make things easier. Are there any family-friendly pubs you could take him to for meals, where children (and the noise/disruption they can bring) are tolerated and accepted? Would this be easier for you all? Alternatively, do you have any calming resources you could take with you t keep your son calmer and quieter? Sorry, I don't know what else to suggest.

[Canonlygetbetter06 in reply to MontyCat]

I total agree with you, just as the posters says that her son disturbs members of the public equally people who have gone out for a meal with family or friends also are entitled to sit and have a meal without being disturbed. Personally I feel it doesn’t matter that a person has additional needs or whether it’s children disturbing others it is the parents/carers responsibility to decide if that is acceptable.

[Carermum2008]

No he has the same rights as anyone else but I agree i would look at places that are more child friendly also maybe explain his needs if you pre book so the staff are aware and could sit you somewhere that isn't right bang in the middle of the place, or they could advise on the quietest times where there's less people there. it's a shame you don't live near anywhere that is run by disabled people we have a one the staff have disabilities themselves they are very accommodating and it's usually a calming atmosphere with sensory toys ect, low level music or none at all.

[Nicks-sister]

Take your son to the pub! It’s not a library!!

[DrSarahmac]

I think any decent person would understand that you and your son will want to go out to a restaurant like they do and would not object. But it’s probably considerate to go to a child friendly pub so that those who are paying elsewhere for a quiet romantic meal also get what they want.

[Bubbles99]

I personally make sure my grandchildren don’t make lots of noise whilst in a restaurant/cafe. People pay good money for a couple of hours out with a loved one/family. My main ask is, does your son enjoy these trips? Are they more for you? (Meant in the nicest possible way, I am not being critical - we all deserve to go out). Would it matter if you had a picnic in a park or a drive through burger with your son and save a trip when you have a couple of hours respite to enjoy in a pub/restaurant. Again, not judging, just my opinion xx

[Mummypam]

absolutely not. He should be able to go anywhere you wish to take him. Having said that I think you should pick somewhere that is not posh but more casual and accepting.

[Jfmj]

We also have a non-verbal but noisy daughter 24 years old-we have always taken her with us everywhere we go, only ever had 1 complaint by another diner but restaurant manager just moved that person to another table in another room. Don’t be intimidated just because some people are ignorant, your son has as much right to be there as anyone else .

[Chocolate-heals-all]

I’m interested in the reaction of his carer. I wonder whether this was a pub where you’ve been before. I wonder whether this carer needs some re-training. If this is how your son is, at 57 years old, he isn’t going to suddenly go all quiet and calm unless something is terribly wrong.

So I’d say - he’s entitled to go anywhere and to expect a service-provider to make reasonable adjustments which, in this case, might be to warn people sitting nearby that they might want to move if they want a quiet meal. But you might not want to push that entitlement, so you might choose days when the pub isn’t too crowded; choose a pub or restaurant which has a welcoming atmosphere; go to familiar places where the other guests know your son; go to places which are big enough that they can make room for your son without losing all their business for an hour or two. If your son is 57 you probably know which local places are inclined to be welcoming, but if he’s moved to a new area then the carer (or you) might be able to do some ringing round, to check them out first.

I would think that this should be written explicitly in your son’s care plan, that the carer needs to advocate for him and sometimes to explain to people that he isn’t trying to be aggressive or a nuisance, that he has no idea of the effect of his verbalisations on others, or his rocking and flipping (very common among people who are autistic, completely harmless, and very helpful for the individual as a strategy for sensory regulation), and that this is the way he needs to behave, to maintain his mental well-being.

You might also check when your son’s hearing was last tested and whether he has age-related hearing loss or wax in his ears. If he’s getting noisier as time goes by, that would be an explanation. The way you describe him, it might be difficult to arrange an ear examination, and hearing-aids or de-waxing, and again the carer would have to find an audiologist who is able to make reasonable adjustments, to strike up a rapport with your son.

We’re an autistic family, so I have an inkling of what you’re going through, although we face different challenges.

[redoninon]

hi no you be proud to take him anywhere ,he has the right to go anywhere as much as anyone else ignore the ignorant people, has he got ear defenders that may help block some of the noise out for him also does he have anything he likes doing like an ipad,you could keep the visit short so you and he does get too stressed but he has the right to go anywhere if he likes being out do it.

[49Twister]

Hi Deborah, did you manage to get your son into supported living? I remember some of your posts struggling to get the support he needed. So happy for you both if he is. It’s shocking it didn't happen sooner but good luck to you both. 💙

[deborahcoxsuckle in reply to 49Twister]

my youngest son is doing well, he's in a locked rehab and slowly getting off the drugs.

[49Twister]

That's really good to know, so you have 2 son's with disabilities ? So tough for you. Take care

[LuJ12]

Hi, I would like to echo comments made by Chocolate-heals-all re the staff reaction. You happily take your son out in the community but the new carer's reactions has now made you question if you should. Why? Is this person 'new' to you and your son, or are they new to the caring profession? Did they have info about your son before they met him - if not why not. Would that person be uncomfortable with his behaviours in other settings? Maybe they are a 'wrong fit' for your son, or maybe they've chosen the wrong job. Lots of questions! I would go back to the care company and ask some.

It's really good that your son accesses the community if that's what he wants to do. It sounds like it makes him, and you happy. Keep doing it!

[Bluey203 in reply to LuJ12]

Totally agree with comment. We have a 22 year old son with autism and severe learning disability who is non verbal. But he does vocalise sounds and can be very ticcy with repetitive movements . But we understand the tone of his vocals and when he's in a happy or low mood, if he was in a low mood then we wouldnt take him to a busy environment. We regularly take him to Wetherspoons pub near us, we tend to take him at quieter times for his sake as he doesn't like anywhere too busy and noisy. Yes we get quite a few people who stare out of curiosity which our son is oblivious to and we are long used to. I personally wouldn't take any notice of the new carer, from our experience of carers who take our son out for a walk or swim a few hours per week, very few have any experience of those with severe learning disability, and when asked ,they haven't been given information on our son. Care agencies are so desperate for staff they're employing anyone unfortunately.

[Scrutineer]

Does this son live with you in your bungalow or is he in Supported Living like your other son?