Hello running friends. A new week and it’s time to kick off the chat. For anyone new, this is the place to tell us how your running is going. Or not. The good, the bad and the bits in between, we’d love to hear your news.
I thought about this week’s topic when I was lying awake at 3 in the morning on Sunday tossing and turning and wondering why I couldn’t get back to sleep. I had fallen asleep pretty quickly but then woke up, tossed and turned a bit and lay there wondering why I couldn’t return to that lovely place again.
I had done a long run on Saturday and was expecting to sleep well throughout the night. But here I was wide awake and thinking about everything and anything when I should have been well into the Land of Nod. I didn’t have any niggles, nothing hurt, I didn’t feel thirsty or hungry, I did all the usual stuff I normally do as a routine for bedtime but I still couldn’t drop off again.
As runners, we know how important good quality sleep is to our recovery and mental and physical well being. It’s a critical element of our training. And yet sometimes so elusive.
Years ago I went through a period of insomnia and ended up doing an online CBT course which worked wonders and gave me lots of tips which I still carry out. But in spite of doing all the right things I’ve noticed that sometimes I still just don’t sleep well at all. I started thinking that perhaps it happens after my long runs because I had a similar night last week but I couldn’t remember if it was after a long run or not. Is it a thing? Apparently it is. After reading through various articles I realise that lots of runners seem to have disturbed sleep after a long run. It got me thinking why was that?
There could be lots of reasons. An increase in the stress hormone cortisol, high body temperature, dehydration, low blood sugar, too much caffeine… the list goes on. Here’s an interesting article on the subject but there are loads out there if you’re interested in finding out more.
I need to do more research and testing and I’m now going to keep notes on my bad sleep nights and see if there is a pattern. I have a feeling that my sleeplessness is related to my food intake. I can’t eat a great deal after a long run and I doubt that I’m getting what I need to replenish my hard worked muscles so I think my sleeplessness might be caused by low blood sugar. I’m going to look at this and see if I can fix it. Watch this space and I’ll report back.
In the end, after endless tossing and turning, I followed one tip from my CBT course and got up out of bed to break the cycle. Although I felt I wasn’t hungry I did make myself some hot milk and toast and read a magazine for a while. I then went back to bed and fell asleep within minutes. So perhaps I was hungry after all?
Do you have sleepless nights after a long run or hard exercise? If so I’d love to know and what you’ve tried that maybe works for you.
Here’s to a great week’s sleep for all of us. Until next time 😴💤💤
From your team, linda9389 , Beachcomber66 and me xxx
Hi IPMy sleeping hasn't been great for ages,due to a combination of things 😪 time of life,stress , loo trips,the list goes on. I find it really depressing 😕, have got some new tablets to try.
But yes the night after my 1st HM I slept terribly and its definitely a thing! Very frustrating! I'll read that article later on as just heading to work !
My running very erratic atm but no kids this week so maybe things will be calmer and more time to spare! Watched the local 10 mile race yesterday,Kenny was in it, helped at the water stop ,was fun!
At present my sleep is pretty good. I nearly always run in a morning, so bloods etc will have time to settle down before bed time. When I worked , and even after retirement for a while, my sleep was rubbish!!It did mean that I could handle the all day and night sessions that were features of my work, but it left an imprint!
I have reached my current age only needing one tablet a day; a side effect is that it helps sleep…. problem solved. Mrs BC’s cure is to get up and have a milky drink….works most of the time. Insomnia is awful…..hope this is just a blip 🥰. Mrs BC tells me to stop looking at screens late in the evening 🙂.
Oh…running!! Today was long run day. An 80 minute run with Joannie. Really relaxing 11.45k . VO2 max hit 45 last week, but has slipped back to 43 after this run 😂. Some intervals will soon sort that out; not that I care you understand 😖. Have a great week all.
My Nan too, Ovaltine! Banana , sleep friendly snack :)...Oh and one or two pages read from a favourite, old friend of a book. Mine is, The Country Child by Alison Uttley.
I do take comfort from a story I read from the last olymics. One of our athletes (can’t remember who) shared a room with someone who snored all night and so kept her awake. She didn't get any sleep at all but then next day went out and won gold!
I think the milky drink is a great idea. Also a banana. The combination works well and one that I’m going to try.
Mrs BC is absolutely right about screen time. Looking at our phones/ipads for too long is lethal for a good night’s sleep and I am now pretty disciplined about it.
Your run sounds great. I’m so pleased that you're well away from the thing that must be avoided at all costs 🤞🛋️
Thanks IP. We are becoming like actors, avoiding the short name of “The Scottish Play” ….Seriously, I need to cut back to easy pace on long runs. Today was more like best 10 mile pace; bad idea. Shame to ruin this good spell.
Do you listen to music on your long runs? I find, if I’m listening to my usual epic stuff, I can get carried away and forgot about pace for a while but then realise I need to take it a lot more slowly 🧘♀️
I don’t listen to music on runs. I really appreciate different types of music, but I don’t think listening whilst I run would work for me; both need my complete attention.
My sleep has been appalling this last few days. I’ve been really hot at night and I hate being too hot. Not because of that age-related female issue, that’s long gone (and I wasn’t affected much then anyway). I’ve had an annoying coldy buggy thing. 🙄
So no running since the weekend before last either. I’d planned on starting back up today, but after another tossy turny night I figured I’d be next to useless. I’ll aim for the gym tomorrow, as I’m missing my HM plan!
Wish I was comfy as your little kitties IP, or this little fellow ….. ❤️
Oh that’s rotten Munks ☹️ Having a cold buggy thing is horrible. Blocked nose, tickly cough, feeling hot and bothered. No wonder you can’t sleep!
I’ve found it hot at night recently too and I haven't got a cold so it must be the weather, which is odd because we haven't exactly had a great summer so far have we?
Love your photo! ❤️ Looks as if he is practising deep breathing 😂 Is he yours?
I know, the weather hasn’t exactly been hot has it? I’d understand being uncomfortable at night if it was. 🙄 Coldy bug is on its way out I’m relieved to say. Hopefully I’ll sleep better later. And I hope you do too! ❤️
I’ve got the opposite problem at the moment. I’m in bed by 9pm most evenings. I’ve started taking a Magnesium tablet & it knocks me out. It’s Magnesium Glycinate.
We’re off on holiday to celebrate a big birthday for me. It’s good timing as I feel quite flat after all the excitement of the marathon.
That's interesting about magnesium because some of the articles I’ve read have mentioned this and a lack of that and zinc could be related to sleeplessness.
Is there any reason why you've started taking it? Is it running related?
Happy birthday RW for the big day 🎈🎁 Have a fabulous time away and I’m sure you’ll squeeze in a few runs ❤️
Thanks for this... really interesting. I sleep very well mostly and running does not impact that.
Overthinking and stress levels have played a major part at times, in causing disrupted sleep, but I am finding the food related, effects interesting.
I am, as you know trying to get the weight back on, after losing so much last year, after Mr OF's heart attack... and his other problems. ( I ate like a sparrow. )
Getting back on track has been hard, and one thing I noticed was, broken nights; then as I began to get back to a normal eating routines, I saw a pattern. If I had not eaten enough at my evening meal, I was waking up in the night.
So... I started just topping up a little, not indigestible food, but just something, more filling. Voila! Sleep improved dramatically! I shall research more.
My running is good.
Still on track with the NRC 10K guided run and loving it. Especially the speed runs ( shh )!
I do tweak, because I do need at least one rest day between the runs. Just following a new plan for a change, is a great motivator and is, a side effect, inspiring me to shake things up. I even run on different days now!
Still early though... I really do like my early morning runs!
So. Thanks for letting me pop in and share and happy running everyone !
Always welcome here Floss!! As you know, I occasionally drop in on your cosy corner too. There are no boundary walls between the forums 🙂. We went out for dinner with a friend last night; much richer/ high calorie stuff than usual (a lovely curry) ….slept like a log!
You and I have chatted in the past about our challenge to put weight on and keep it on. It is hard especially as we are both so active all the time. I find I have to work on it constantly especially as I struggle to eat big amounts of food in one sitting and have to graze constantly during the day.
Topping up a little is clearly working for you. I aim to do that too and it can make a difference. I just need to do more of it on my long runs days!
It’s good to mix up the old plans sometimes, keeps us on our toes 🙂 I’m so pleased you are working through one that is clearly right for you! Happy running Floss xxx
We have indeed chatted I can eat larger portions now and am learning to snack ! The topping up feels easier and going to bed with a comfortably full tum, clearly works for me.
I am really making sure that I fuel my runs.., The good stuff needs to go in to get the performance out...
OK, let's try again! I do sleep badly after a long run - especially after an event where I am both mentally and physically exhausted and imagine I'm about to get a great sleep! I know that keeping the bedroom on the cold side of cool helps me sleep, and I see that not drinking alcohol has a massive impact on the quality of my sleep too.
I'm currently in Switzerland; as I do like a bit of parkrun tourism when I'm away I was disappointed to see there are none here. France parkruns are all cancelled. But the nearest operating run is in Germany, just at the point where the German, French and Swiss borders meet. Luckily I spotted in time that it isn't running this week. So on Saturday I jiggled my plan and we drove to Dreilandergarten parkrun! Although it was an hour's drive, involving an international border crossing, it was actually a lot easier than our stress filled tourist outing to Ashton Park!!! A lovely run, incredibly friendly, with an RD from Manchester!!!
Fortunes changed Saturday evening and I am (temporarily) back on the injury couch. I wrote about that yesterday but lost it - I'll try a separate post later! In the meantime my long run is is on hold ...
That post was going so well until the penultimate paragraph Linda! I hope that this is just a blip 🤞. I always feel that I am more injury prone when I am travelling around. Long distance travel isn’t good for runners!! Or at least not for this runner.🙄
Well! my sleep is ok, but seeing all these mentions of ovaltine has reminded me of the time I lived and worked on a farm just outside the village of Burnham, which isn't that far from Slough, this would have been in the 80s Anyway the pub we drank in had a couple of regulars that worked for Mars that was based on the Slough trading estate and if you wanted ovaltine they would supply it in kilo bags same for biscuits they could take home the rejects/broken biscuits, by the sack load!!😆
oh, small world, the farm I worked on was Snowball Farm, they still had a dairy herd then, but the horses were taking over, and I drank in The Crispin at the top of the high street, did you know that Mars had/has its own water well and its own electricity supply, and there were certain parts of the Britwell that Mars supplied so they were never affected by power cuts,
It's now 5.12am. The charming swiss church clock will be chiming again any minute now. I've had a banana and a hot drink. let's see if I can bag a bit more sleep before the light is up (despite this screen time) 😍
I think the screentime outweighed the banana! I already take magnesium, but usually take it in the morning. Switched to nighttime yesterday but was up half the night with toothache (I'm living the nightmare roight now!!!). The magnesium experiment continues ... 😍
Appt at half two ... I think. (Halb drei ... I'm pretty sure that's half way to three.) Can walk there and back. Insurance company called. Hopefully it'll be on the mend soon. With ibuprofen around £1 a pop, it's getting to be an expensive holiday 🤣
In better news, I just made a half decent job of my wildwoman curly hair with the straighteners! Took two hands, but there's a noticeable taming of the mess!
More drugs and a fat bill. Three possible causes. Called home dentist to book treatment only to find I've been struck off the NHS patient list because I haven't been in the last year. Can't find another NHS dentist with places close by. Currently feeling sorry for myself, but hopefully tomorrow will be better 🙏
I was always a life long insomniac, or more accurately just didn't need much sleep, 4-6 hours maximum. One of my earliest memories was climbing out of my cot in the early hours, I must have been around two years old....it was always quite handy when I worked shifts with quick turn arounds, a night shift followed by a day shift, or double shifts worked back to back. I coped quite well.
Fast forward a few years and a downturn in my health... these days I need 8 or 9 hours, and a nap in the afternoon. I rather resent it, my days are so short now! I used to be at the local swimming pool at 6 when it opened, watching the sunrise through the glass roof, then do my shopping or whatever, and be home before Mr CG had even stirred..., but now I find it quite hard to fit a long run in before lunchtime.
Not complaining as I know my treatments have kept me going but it's hard.
Morning CG. I guess we need different amounts of sleep as our bodies change. Your body has been through so much so it makes sense that you need a lot of sleep. But yes, I can see that it must be hard for you if you've been used to getting up earlier and having longer days.
I sometimes take a nap in the afternoon and it’s usually my best sleep! Love it. If only I could replicate it at night 🙄
I often think it's the siesta that reduces my need for quality sleep at night, although I pend a long time in bed at night the quality is not always brilliant, I have that 4 AM wide awake thing going on too. Then when I go back to sleep I normally sleep very heavily. Maybe I should get up at that point like I used to!
I have read that waking up in the early hours is our natural rhythm from centuries ago when our ancestors woke up to tend to the cattle and do various jobs around the home and then they went back to bed for a few more hours.
I don’t worry about it the way I used to and it’s good that I’m retired so I can have a little doze when I feel like it 😴
Hello all, I’m still not getting emails about posts so I’m late to the conversation again! I find that my sleepless nights are usually before a race, from the excitement and anticipation I guess. But getting up with a hot choc and a read usually helps.
We’ve had such a hectic time with Wimbledon, cricket, garden show and friends’ anniversary celebrations that running has really taken second place. My only outings were a heavy legged 4k on the prom on Thursday, followed by a parkrun at Netley on Saturday . It’s always nice to try somewhere different and chat to other tourists.
Sleep has been decent for me since I began running. I normally get 6-7 hrs a night and that seems to work. I am usually automatically up by 5am and sleeping by 10pm or so. Stress with my parents’ care over the last year combined with occasional work stress, sometimes hurts my sleep but otherwise on average it is better than my younger days. And on race days I am usually sleeping well.
You are so lucky Decker! Stress is a big sleep killer but hopefully, for most of us, it is always temporary in our lives.
I should follow your example and aim to be asleep by 10. I go to bed early enough but then read for about an hour so am not settling down until nearer midnight. But I love reading in bed so I’m not giving that up.
My running doesn’t seem to make any difference to the quality or length of my sleep at night. I go through phases of not sleeping well. I don’t have any problem getting to sleep - but I wake early. Like you - 3 - 4 a.m. it’s worse if I miss my ‘window’ of going to bed. This I have noticed! If I’m in bed by 10:30, I usually sleep for longer. I can trace my sleep problems back to trauma in 2020, but at least now I have long periods of time when I sleep well - I guess I just have to live with it. I don’t stress about trying to get back to sleep as it makes it worse. Sometimes I’ll try reading for a while and manage to doze off again. I think my sleep problems started with anxiety and became a habit of sorts - nowadays kicked off by a late night or two, possibly getting overtired. A late heavy meal doesn’t help either, especially if the food is salty, like a Chinese takeaway. I seldom have this kind of food now for that reason and I try to eat at a reasonable time.
When I wake early, I tend to focus on everything negative and end up upsetting myself so if reading doesn’t work (I read crime, too!) I’ll usually get up to snap myself out of it. I’ll make a cuppa and have a biscuit (or two!) Maybe read some stuff about running. Sometimes I buy stuff on Amazon 😊. I bought my armband heart monitor during one sleepless night 😬. These things don’t help me get back to sleep but they help to get rid of the negativity, which is a ‘win’ for me. If it’s light outside and I’m due to run sometimes I’ll just get ready and run. Strangely, some of my best runs have been after very little sleep and insanely early. I may be tired but running calms me down; the peace and tranquility out there so early is good for the soul.
It sounds as if you're managing it well Jools. One of the tricks the online course taught me, if I was still tossing and turning, was to get up after 20 minutes and do something else. Get out of bed, out of the bedroom otherwise we will always associate bad sleep with the room and that bed. It does work for me 95% of the time but last night it was just too hot so I didn't sleep well for that reason 🙄
Maybe we should start a little “still awake at 4am community” 🤣
Thank goodness for running for all sorts of reasons ❤️
Have a great week and here’s to great sleep for all of us 😴
Yes - I think I am managing it pretty well. There’s just one thing I know works - and sometimes I just don’t bother to do it! When it’s hot I sleep much better with just a duvet cover on the bed instead of a duvet. It seems such a faff to find one in the early hours! So I’m going to find a cover in advance for tonight as it’s set to be a warm one!
I find it really interesting that when Ive done a lot of exercise, I feel really tired when I go to bed and sometimes do manage to fall asleep quite quickly, but then like you, wake up and no matter what I do, I just can't get back to sleep.
A few years ago I was referred to the local pain management clinic because of problems with arthritis in my lower spine. It actually ended up being like 6 weeks of personal life coaching, as the specialist taught me quite a few different techniques for managing anxiety and stress, because as we all know, the more anxious you get the more your pain can increase. He also talked me though techniques for sleepless nights, which used to work really well, but haven't done as well lately.
They were very much as you describe, about not just lying there, but breaking the cycle by either getting up and making a drink or reading something light. He also explained that the more you get yourself wound up lying in bed, tossing and turning, the brain gets into the habit of telling you that its a problem because you can't sleep and then you get more wound up and hence its a vicious circle. So he used to tell me to instead, just accept it and actually focus on the fact that Im warm, comfortable and may not be asleep but Im relaxed and don't need to put pressure on myself. I do try try that and most times it does work, but occasionally it doesn't, so I do end up picking up a book and reading.
Im really a night owl and if it wasn't for having to get up for work I wouldn't go to bed until I was literally falling asleep on my feet!😴😴!
You were probably told about deep breathing too and I do try that but, while it is relaxing, it doesn’t send me to sleep, but maybe I need to do it for longer. I get bored and so start thinking about things 🙄
We’ve got the tools it seems! Here’s to better sleep and cooler nights 😴
Basically I suffer too especially the night before and the night after a race.
I take magnesium which helps especially as I also have restless leg and constant muscle twitching in my calves. Feels like worms crawling about under my skin 🤢
I also wake up at the first hint of dawn light. My curtains aren’t quite black out curtains and I can’t wear those eye mask thingies as I get claustrophobic. So in winter it’s less of a problem but right now it’s not good.
I use the deep breathing method which works unless I’m worried about something so forget it on race nights 😅
If I nap in the afternoon then I really struggle to get to sleep at night but if I don’t I get grumpy 🤷♂️
Running wise touch wood all is going well.
The British Champs are next weekend and this time next Saturday I’ll be up and about preparing for the heats of the 100m. Yikes.
Take care everyone and especially those dealing with injuries. You’ll be back!
I’ve just started taking magnesium so am hoping it’ll make a difference, but it’s at least reassuring to know that there are others who are wide awake in the early hours and not just me!
That restless leg sounds irritating. But you do put your muscles through a heck of a lot so they are clearly still twitching to go even in bed 🙂
I’ve got everything crossed for you Brian 🤞 We’re all right behind you 🥳
Hello! Late to the party as ever 😂 Funnily enough, partially due to the topic!
I’ve had a bit of a rubbish week and the last few days I’ve felt physically and mentally worn out. I won’t go into any detail but suffice to say, even when I think I’m sleeping and I’ve gone to bed earlier, I’ve been waking up worn out. In fact last night, when I couldn’t sleep and was tossing and turning, I ended up feeling fresher than I have for days. How does that work?
It’s not really ideal for marathon training when my rest is all over the place! I’ll be interested to see how you get on IP 😴
I can relate to that so well. Some nights I don’t seem to sleep well but feel great the next day and other days feel rubbish. It must depend on the quality of sleep somehow and on those nights we are probably getting more of that than we realise.
I’m two days in to the magnesium tablets so too early to make a difference but it’s still quite hot at night.
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I can eat larger portions now and am learning to snack ! The topping up feels easier and going to bed with a comfortably full tum, clearly works for me.
Weekly Chat 11th to 17th July
Get the kettle on folks! It's the weekly chat for the 6th July - 12th July 🍪 ☕