Dnacpr without family consent for Covid patient

[Fahimafani]

Mum has been in hospital for 50 days, oxygen level 28-30% and is on cpap mode on ventilator. Lungs are still damaged from Covid and isn’t moving the left side of her body although ct scan of brain came back clear. She’s moving the other side fine and is even waving at us through video call. We’re constantly being told she’s static and isn’t making much progress when her numbers say otherwise. The drs placed her on DNR without family consent, this isn’t what we want not my mums wishes. How do I overturn this decision? Who do I speak to as the consultant seemed to have made up his mind. She’s also getting regular bacterial infections ( one after the other) am i right to worry and question the level of hygiene at hospital? Please help

[LeopardGecko]

My husband also had a DNR placed on him which I had no say over at all. I believe that it is a decision which unfortunately lies with the medical team. The only thing I would suggest is to discuss the decision with another member of staff involved in your mum's treatment (maybe the head of Critical Care) or get in contact with PALS and see if they can offer advice. This seems to be quite a common occurrence (with my limited experience) with Covid patients. Hopefully it won't come to the point where they need to exercise the DNR.

As far as infections are concerned, I think this is quite a common occurrence in critical care. I think because patients are fighting everything so hard, they are less resistant to these things but I could be completely wrong. Hopefully someone else will be able to offer their opinion/experience.

[Sonya1114 in reply to LeopardGecko]

Hi there, my dad was on ventilator for 30 days from Covid, and was making slight progress. One morning we received a call from the team, to come in and say our final goodbyes. They also tried to convince us to sign a DNR, (giving their opinion on how it would be the right thing to do at that point). My mom strongly refused, but I don’t think they liked it very much. Three hours later, something strange started happening (still can’t really make sense of it), all the staff stopped communicating with us, and my dad needed to be revived by the team. Of course he didn’t make it, and the PA walked over to tell me sorry but we couldn’t save him.. That was that! I hope you will get a better treatment! 🙏

[Fahimafani in reply to Sonya1114]

So sorry to hear about your dad, can’t believe your family got such treatment.

[Fahimafani in reply to LeopardGecko]

Thank you, I’ll discuss this with another consultant. It’s frustrating they are taking the choice away from us.

[Sepsur]

Agree completely with @LeopardGecko - PALS team and voice your concern with the team involved. If they intend any procedure that you are uncertain is correct, you can request a 2nd opinion ( they are not obliged to grant this request). The medical teams are present are in an awful position ( as we all can imagine) having to make decisions on probability of outcome. Most of us on this site were considered, at some point, beyond help and yet we made it.

[Fahimafani in reply to Sepsur]

I understand they are in an awful position, but would never forgive myself if I didn’t try harder. I’ll definitely contact PALS. Thanks

[Sepsur in reply to Fahimafani]

Definitely shout as loud as you can - you are your Mum’s champion now because she can’t do it herself!!!🙏

[Fahimafani in reply to Sepsur]

Update***After several emails to PALS and numerous complaints to doctors, consultants, family liaisons (seriously complained to any medical professional dealing with mum) I’ve finally overturned the DNACPR. One less thing to worry about during this difficult period. Thank you all for the advice and giving me the courage to fight for mum.

[Sepsur in reply to Fahimafani]

That’s really good news😊

[PEN_PAN in reply to Fahimafani]

I agree You are your Mom's campion and U must shout as loud as you can. I am from Canada not sure wht PALS team means or what commitee this is if can have explanation? I do know going through similiar situation with my wife and as sepsur sayys Staff have hard choices...My wife is Totally Blind; Hard of hearing and of course intubated.Sedated/coma-- So u can imagine communication? We have in our HOSPITAL a Council/Committee called the "ETHICS Board" they make sure Your wishes are Heard. Look for this? Possibly? Written too much Apologies.

[Fahimafani in reply to PEN_PAN]

I hope your wife is well. Pals stands for patient advice and liaison service. They aren’t as great as your council ethics board. Nevertheless I did email them.

[Ted2020 in reply to Fahimafani]

HiAgain our case is so so simmilar.. my dad is day 70 on ventilator tomorrow, he had previously come around however is now is back sedated although he wakes up sporadically and has some movement as well as obeying commands. his lungs are extremely bad... we were brought into the hospital for a "meeting" to " Discuss" his case... basically there was no discussion they were telling us there was no hope and they would not be increasing his care if he required it... we had a feeling this was coming all week just on what nurses were saying etc... we really don't agree as he has fought so hard for 12 weeks now... and hes still here ..they keep saying hes on the ventilator too long and will never come off....... I had reached out to another hospital who specialise in lungs and respiratory issues... they agreed to take him on and have a look.... obviously we didn't even think they would but they said if it was their dad they would like to know too they tried their best too but there was a good chance his outcome would be the same, they said they also never replied to an email like I sent before and not sure why....

However when I told our current hospital about this they were less than impressed and totally disagreed with us, during our meeting to the point where the clinical manager said we were not thinking of the patient... we were so angry.. this is only the tip of what they said....

The care he had received in that hospital we could never say a bad word about them , amazing nurses he would not be alive still without them..

If there is even the slightest chance we will fight for him..how can they not see that...

We are now awaiting on bed to come avaiable in the new hospital we were told a few days, the waits is so stressful as you all know so much can happen in such a shot time in icu and we want to make sure he makes it to the new hospital....

KEEP FIGHTING...

The advice from all here keeps us going xxxx

[Fahimafani in reply to Ted2020]

I am so sorry to hear about your dad. He’s been fighting for such long time your doing a great thing by not giving up on him. I have come across many people who were told a similar thing and survived the odds! I hope your dad makes great progress x