Warfarin and Atherosclerosis

[hihannula]

Have any of you developed Atherosclerosis since take Warfarin? If not, how did you avoid this side affect?

[GinaD]

I have been on warfarin for over 20 years and have never heard that diagnosis mentoned. Maybe I have it in small amounts? I have no symptoms. In fact, I usually ( not always -weather, schedule or bouts with cold or flu) mert my daily schedule of walking 5 miles often including a steep uphill or 2. Should I attribute my walking regimen to having clean arteries?

[hihannula in reply to GinaD]

Thanks for answering. No walking would not make up for the fact that warfarin is antagonistic to vitamin k2 which is needed to move calcium away from the arteries. Without K2 the calcium deposits into the arteries and vessels. Maybe for me, an added reason why I have atherosclerosis is because I’ve been on prednisone for 40 years, as well as warfarin for 20 years. You should Google the incidence of warfarin and atherosclerosis. P.S. My lipid panel has always been excellent, and I’ve always eaten healthy, exercise, and a BMI of 20.2. at 119 lbs. So I know for a fact my atherosclerosis is not caused by bad lifestyle. It’s very frustrating dealing with atherosclerosis on top of Lupus, APS and the Osteoporosis caused by the prednisone. Anyway I’m done my rant. Cheers

[GinaD in reply to hihannula]

I do have high calcium levels in my blood. I am a bit of a warfarin rebel in that I am most stable by taking a fluctuating doseage ( 7 mg 5 x week and 8 mgs 2x week) AND I make a pont to eat high K foods daily.

[hihannula in reply to GinaD]

The K content foods you are most likely talking about, are type K1 foods, which is in veggies and dark leafy greens. K1 virtually has no affect on directing calcium into the bone, only K2- MK-7 foods do, which are almost impossible to get enough into your diet, unless you eat foods like natto, kimichi, (and other fermented foods), and some hard cheeses, otherwise, one must supplement with a K2-MK-7, not K1. The calcium in your blood, may be due to a thyroid issue. Having calcium in your blood, is not calcification in your arteries or blood vessels. It's a different thing altogether.

[GinaD in reply to hihannula]

Thanks for passing that knowledge along.

[GinaD in reply to hihannula]

Of course, now that .i look up K2foods I find I am consuming a lot: cheese, egg yolks, kefir, yogurts, sauerkraut. I'll keep that up

[hihannula in reply to GinaD]

Good for you Gina. I'd go a step further and take a K2-MK-7 supplement as an added protection, since you are eating dairy, which has a lot of calcium in it. Cheers

[Wittycjt in reply to hihannula]

I am taking lovenox ( enoxaparin) and have severe osteopenia that shows up in my dexascan and am trying to find out if the vitk2 is safe to take because of APS. Usually I can eat anything on enoxaparin but want to know if it is specifically safe taking with APS. The vit k2 is suppose to make the calcium go to your bones and not lag in the blood is my understanding? How did they find your atherosclerosis?

[hihannula in reply to Wittycjt]

K2 MK-7 prevents calcification in arteries, vessels , kidneys, brain etc… Virtually anywhere in the body. I have it everywhere including arteries, vessels in my eyes, brain, breasts, on my bones. You can feel and see the nodules and they hurt. K2 MK-7 deposits the calcium you ingest into the bones and teeth where calcium belongs. It’s nearly impossible to get the 180 mg dosage you require daily through food, therefore supplementation is required. As you know, warfarin is antagonistic to all the K’s. K1, k2 mk-7 and k2 mk-4. There are other k’s as well but these are most important. Since you are not on warfarin, I’m sure, (but not a Doctor) , you’d be ok. I am on warfarin, and have Lupus , APS and a mechanical heart valve as well as Atherosclerosis caused by medications, as my lipid panel is normal. However, I talked to my Dr and my hemotologist, and they said to go ahead with the K2 MK-7 but to get INR tested weekly to balance out my INR at my safe range. Once balanced, I’ve been on 180 mg for 2 years with no problems. That’s just me. Everyone is different and everything in life is trial and error, taking risks and nothing is black and white! I decided to go for it, knowing I’d be very smart about being consistent every day with all the k.’s I consume, from salads, other veggies, and k supplements. You have to be in tune with your body and the messages it sends you. K2 is extremely important in the prevention of heart disease. There is no doubt and many studies to prove it. I hope I helped. I found out I had atherosclerosis when my mitral valve was leaking and the cardiologist did an angiogram before the surgery. He was shocked as the surgery became a little more complicated than they anticipated as I had a few severely blocked arteries. Good luck and God Bless.

[Wittycjt in reply to hihannula]

you’ve answered my question, thank you

[hihannula in reply to Wittycjt]

You are welcome.😃

[user666]

Arterial calcification is a well known side effect of warfarin. It is seen often in mammogram results and is not seen in DOAC users. There are some studies that using K2 supplement under your hematologist’s supervision helps regulate INR and might help stall further calcification. Animal studies are promising. An older article with a similar question as yours. a-fib.com/how-can-i-avoid-a...

[hihannula in reply to user666]

Thank you for replying. That article in the link you sent me, was my question that I sent in years ago. I really didn't get a clear, concise answer, so I still feel like I'm in the dark, as to how to reduce this calcification, since I must take warfarin for the rest of my life, for a mechanical heart and APS, like many others. The DOAC are out of the question, for these two health issues. I think, finding a solution for preventing this very serious side affect, should be a priority, as so many people are on this drug, without a means to prevent, or halt, such a life altering, dreaded side affect. I may be wrong, but maybe, there is not a push to resolve this issue, is because the majority of the people who take warfarin, are usually the elderly. Just an observation.

[user666 in reply to hihannula]

In my hematology department K2 supplements are commonly given to patients who have a hard time regulating INR have you asked your doctor to put you on it while adjusting your warfarin dose? Since it has shown positive results in murine studies It might stall your progression.

[hihannula in reply to user666]

I have talked to a a couple of my Doctors, and they said they do not know a lot about Vitamin K2 and that if I wanted to try it, to go-ahead, and to be sure to get INR testing done more frequently. I have been on K2 for about 2 years now, My INR is more stable, that's a given, but I'm not sure if the K2 is halting the progression of plaque build up. I was just asking others if they developed atherosclerosis taking warfarin, as I've never seen an article, or any talk about this side affect on the APS site. It obviously is a well known side effect, but no one talks about it. Thank you for replying.

[user666]

Are you on a statin? They do not reverse but do slow progression of arterial calcification. My husband with severe atherosclerosis ,not on warfarin, has bimonthly injections of Evolocumab which in some studies showed reversal of calcification but in a later study only proved to slow progression which is still very helpful.

[hihannula in reply to user666]

The Cardiologist tried a couple statins, and I lost almost 1/2 my muscle and was so weak I was in bed most of the time. The statins reduced my quality of life substantially, and because I reacted to them badly, it was decided to stop using them. Took a year of hard work to regain my weight and my muscle . I'm happy its working for your husband.

[user666 in reply to hihannula]

Evolocumab can be used without statins and works differently with no muscle wasting. Ask about it maybe. It is a PCSK9 inhibitor.

[hihannula in reply to user666]

Hi 666, I just looked it up on line. Evolocumab, when used in cardiovascular diseased patients, it's main goal is to lower LDL. My lipid panel, is actually, (and always has been) outstanding, which was hard for me to understand at the time, why I was put on statins in the 1st place. To look at my Lipids panel, there is no indication of heart disease whatsoever. But when I had the heart scan, and angiogram, I'm full of plaque everywhere. I have so much calcification, I have calcification nodules on my ribs, shins, breasts etc. Before my acupuncturist moved away, she used to break them, (not breasts, OUCH!) by putting a small book on them, and then smash them real hard until they broke. It hurt, but worth it, as they were gone. Since she moved away, a bunch more have appeared. I'll just keep up with my diet, exercise and lots of K2. My last calcium score done 6 years ago was at 800. Hopefully this new cardiologist will do another calcium scan, and there will be a reduction in the score, of at least 1/2, or at least stayed the same.

[Wittycjt in reply to hihannula]

curious are you on CoQ10? And have you explored mitochondria dysfunction as it pertains to APS…interesting side road i think

[KateEsq in reply to Wittycjt]

A caution with Co-Q10, if you take the cheap form that most supplements are made with, it can lower your INR. It's chemical structure is similar to vitamin K, so it can react with warfarin the same way. However, the ubiquinol form does not have the same interaction, and an early study of APS patients has shown positive benefits with it. medicine.umich.edu/dept/int...

[hihannula]

Thank you. I will look on google to learn about it first before I ask. I finally have an appointment with a new cardiologist next Tuesday. I'm more concerned about my mechanical valve these last few years, as it is not functioning correctly because it is incased in plaque. I'm going to him, to see if it's possible to get it replaced with a new one. I'm sure he won't have an answer for me on Tuesday, as many tests will have to be done before a decision can be made.

[user666]

my husband only got it after his ct angiogram showed severe calcification like yours. There is initial indication that PCSK9 inhibitors do reverse arterial calcification but it is still too early to know for sure. More than cholesterol, high levels of PCSK9 are linked to arterial calcification thus why they hope an inhibitor might help reverse it.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/351...

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

[hihannula in reply to user666]

Most of the research going on over the last few years is metabolic syndrome and insulin resistance. The vast majority of people, including children are resistant to insulin, but have no idea, as there are no real symptoms until it develops into something more serious I.e. autoimmune disease, heart disease, diabetes, etc. The list is long. I am insulin resistant, because of 40 years on prednisone. Not because I’ve a bad diet, because I don’t and never have. The warfarin on top of prednisone made a bomb go off with other diseases, such as the fore mentioned as well as Osteoporosis. It’s much more difficult trying to stay on top of side affects than the actual Lupus and APS. One thing for sure, I do not have a choice, other than to stay on my toes and continue to be pro active for my own sake. Cheers🙂

[Jackym64]

How do you find out if you have atherosclerosis, I have aps on warfarin for life, my mum and her aunties all had strokes, my mum went in for op to remove plaque from artery in her neck. She very sadly passed away as she went into organ failure because of blocked arteries all over her, which doctors did not know about before they operated on her. I have familial cholesterol.

[user666 in reply to Jackym64]

It is often not covered in the us by insurance but a type of Ct scan shows how much calcification is present in our arteries. Ask about a angiogram ct.

[hihannula in reply to user666]

Angiogram CT’s can be risky and definitely not necessary to measure calcification. Especially dangerous if you have a blood clotting disorder. They are invasive and can cause serious reactions from the dye, loosen a blood clot, cause internal bleeding, and cause infection. There are numerous non invasive scans etc that are 100% safe, with no risk of the fore mentioned, that are just as accurate.

[user666 in reply to hihannula]

Not sure what you think a Ct angiogram is but ct angio only uses contrast dye and X-ray imaging and no invasive measures they take only minutes. Unless you have a reaction to the contrast dye used in a standard ct with contrast there is very little risk. medlineplus.gov/ency/articl...

[hihannula in reply to user666]

You are correct. My apologies. I was confused with the coronary angiogram, or also known as cardiac catheterization.

[hihannula]

Hi Jacky. Make an appt with your GP or Rheumatologist and explain your family history with the women having heart problems, and you have concerns about your heart health, especially because you are on warfarin, which is proven to cause heart disease. Ask if he could do some tests to put your mind at ease, as it’s something you’d rather know about sooner than later. If he won’t do the tests, hire a Natural pathic Doctor and he’ll do them for you. Good Luck. Cheers. Holly

[Jackym64]

Thank you 😊

[MickyPitt]

I have been on warfarin for Triple positive APS for 25 years plus, and had a CT angiogram that resulted in two incidental findings (a thyroid nodule and some atherosclerosis). Thank you for posting about vitamin K2, I didn’t know anything about it. I’m now going to ask my hematologist about it.