Interesting article on healthy snacks

[Cooper27]

amp.theguardian.com/food/20...

I found this article this morning, and thought it worth sharing. It shows how "healthy snacks" can often mislead us with their health claims.

It's interesting to see how the packaging can make something appear healthier than it might be, often by focussing on just one corner of the health square (low fat/salt/sugar/calories) at the expense of the others.

I do think articles like this are a bit unfair with their comparisons though. For example, stating that the lentil chips have a higher salt content than 2 packs of Macdonald's chips may be unfair, as Macdonald's chips have other qualities that make them less healthy than the lentil chips overall. So do take these things with a pinch of salt (pun intended).

[Hidden]

This is sad but true Cooper and you’re right it depends which aspect we look at with “healthy snacks”

I think one issue is with fast and convenient foods is we don’t really know what we are eating as the labels try to make things look and sound irresistible.

I’m afraid my experience of the free from aisles is free from what? As I remember a similar article on the BBC good food guide and some gf chocolate cream biscuits had nearly as much trans fats as a Big Mac and KFC!

This is perfect timing as it’s salt awareness week this week, please see:

actiononsalt.org.uk/awarene...

So it’ll be with a pinch of low salt...😊

[Subtle_badger in reply to Hidden]

We focus too much on salt. Salt is only harmful if you have high blood pressure or a few other conditions.

Of those with high blood pressure, only 60% of them are salt sensitive - so their BP rises and falls depending on how much salt they eat. 35% it has no effect, and 5% are reverse salt sensitive: their BP goes up as salt goes down!

And salt is a J-curve. Too little is as dangerous as too much - and that is for all of us, healthy BP or not.

Telling everyone to cut back on salt might be sensible from a public health standpoint, but as individuals, we should be more nuanced in our approach.

[Hidden in reply to Subtle_badger]

Hey you're right and I sometimes have a drink of low salt bouillon which still has salt in it so yes salt is a basic electrolyte and essential to good health.Sadly too many people eat much too much salt and again its in processed foods.

[Subtle_badger in reply to Hidden]

I think you have missed my point.

According to google, 1 in 4 Brits have hypertension. They are the only ones that need to worry about salt. Of that 25%, 60% will be salt sensitive. health.harvard.edu/heart-he...

So if you are part of that 15% with salt sensitive hypertension, then you are doing good by watching your salt intake. If you are part of the remaining 85%,then it's doing nothing to make you healthier, and possibly making your less well even putting you at risk of hyponatremia.

And if you are hypertensive and have reverse salt-sensitive hypertension, then restricting your salt will actually raise your blood pressure. This is only 0.1% of the population, but it's not nothing.

[Hidden in reply to Subtle_badger]

Hey point taken Subtle_badger 👍

[Blueruth in reply to Subtle_badger]

@subtle_badger, Salt is not bad for you just as you say but it does not help with keeping you hydrated which is important for feeling satiated and not hungry. You can think of it like an indirect adverse affect. For people that need to limit fatty or sugary foods the salt is something they should probably avoid. Manufacturers actually do add more salt when they take out other things.

[Subtle_badger in reply to Blueruth]

I don't understand the relevance of hydration - though if you drink a ridiculous amount of water as some do, then you better increase your salts, as that water will leech electrolytes from your body.

As you cut sugary things, your insulin will drop and you will retain less sodium. Those cutting sugar may need to increase their salt intake, and those drastically cutting carbs absolutely do.

[Blueruth in reply to Subtle_badger]

You make it sound so simple!!!! It isn’t. Appetite is controlled in a very complex way. They do not know everything. They know there are several chemicals in your body. Gherlin tells you are hungry for instance but it isn’t always driven by your need for food. In this case urea plays a role. Technically speaking… they believe salt increases urea which makes you crave food. In other ways , especially kids they speculate it makes them hungry and thirsty so they get sugar drinks which are easily available. They also eat more than they should.

There are plenty of studies on this. Look for appetite research.

Most people are not going to be adopting a diet that restricted so they really shouldn’t worry about too little salt unless their doctor tells them they should.

[Subtle_badger in reply to Blueruth]

"Look for appetite research."

Please don't ask someone to do the research to back up your claims. You should provide the links, if they exist. I have done a lot of research on salt, and never read anything like this. But I would reject a claim that salt makes you drink sugary drinks. Remove them from your house, and then it doesn't. The sugary drinks are the problem, not the salt.

"shouldn’t worry about too little salt unless their doctor tells them they should."

Really? You think doctors know that much about nutrition? Anyway, you don't need a doctor to tell you that you need more salt in your diet, when you are regularly woken screaming at 3am by cramps in your legs. Now I have given up processed food (the main source of salt in the western diet) and dropped my insulin, I have to work to get enough salt in my diet. Luckily I have come to enjoy salty coffee.

----

The biology of our bodies is complicated, but fixing it is simple. Eat a natural human diet. The body will heal, and then you can trust it to tell you what it needs.

[Blueruth in reply to Subtle_badger]

Fair enough. Calm down. I first learned about this on Noom so I can’t share that. You should still look it up because you tend to post the study itself rather than a summary where the writer can help analyze several studies. webmd.com/diet/obesity/news...

You don’t eat a common diet. Low carb is common. Low carb, high fat is not common. Making no judgment in that statement. My pcp and office knows me so yes I trust her to tell me if I should ask someone else. Or diagnose if salt is causing issues. If you don’t have a regular pcp that is the first problem.

The bad stuff we eat, fitness level, and emotional and physical health can circumvent the communication. You seem to know more than researcher and doctors though.

[Subtle_badger in reply to Blueruth]

Thanks for the link. I found a further one about the same thing web.archive.org/web/2021021... which makes it pretty clear that the hunger increases come because more energy is expended when you eat high salt foods - and like most things that increase calorie burn (exercise for example), it also increase appetite. Seems like a wash to me.

🤔 The could have framed it that way instead, in the webmd article - adding salt to your food increases your calorie burn! 😂

LCHF is common. It's called keto (amongst other names), and there are 100,000s in the UK and millions in the USA. And the fact that you need to up your salt is also well known

google.com/search?q=keto+fl...

I wouldn't ask my GP about this, but I doubt he knows about it. I know about it because I learnt about it from trustworthy sources and because I experienced it myself.

I would hope I know more about nutrition than most doctors, because I have done research and they know very little. I was effectively called a liar by a consultant because I said I did exercise and avoid fat. She knew I was lying, because I was obese and she knew that cutting fat and exercising would make me slim.I found out (eventually) that she was wrong, and that carbs were the problem and exercise is irrelevant. She was also morbidly obese - but even that didn't give her insight that her advice was worse than useless.

Diets popularity by search requests. Keto is #2!

[Cooper27 Administrator in reply to Subtle_badger]

Has Keto been a little highjacked to simply describe low carb these days?

My understanding is that keto should be very low carb, and really limit grains, potatoes & root veg. I'm (obviously anecdotal feedback) finding many people describing their diet as keto, and regularly eating many of these foods (albeit within carb limits of 100g per day). It surprises me that Keto ranks so highly, while low carb isn't even registering.

[Subtle_badger in reply to Cooper27]

I don't think it's been hijacked. That's about searches so it won't exactly match popularity. I couldn't find a list of diets by popularity, so used this as a proxy.

I don't think low carb requires much googling. Just eat less. Keto is difficult, at least to start with, so more help is needed. And even if I was low carb, I probably would still google keto a lot. If you want to find low carb recipes, the easiest way would be to search for keto - you can always add carbs back in if you like.

Keto is also an identity. Low carbs just eat open sandwiches, and eschew fizzy drinks. Those following keto often talk about the keto lifestyle.

I am a member of two sister Facebook groups, one for low carb and one for keto. The keto group has 4x as many members, and they are definitely keto. Your post gets deleted if you mention rapeseed oil or any grains. 🙄

[Cooper27 Administrator in reply to Subtle_badger]

That's fair enough, and it's true I guess: I often use Paleo as a search term, as I know I'll get gluten free, dairy free, whole food recipes I can adapt, but my diet isn't paleo.

I think you must have some stricter facebook groups than I do 😳

[Subtle_badger in reply to Cooper27]

Yeah, it's an awful group. I don't participate, but I haven't bothered to leave it. It's even worse than that sounds, because they have all these learning units you are required to take. Oh, and there is an app to calculate your macros and you must stick to them, because they are right and you are stupid. Because, as you know, everyone is the world that has the same height, weight, age and gender as you has exactly the same nutritional requirements. Right?

But it's more tolerable - to me at least - the more permissive group I am a member of. They drink SlimFast Keto shakes and Skinny ketchup 🤮

[Blueruth in reply to Subtle_badger]

I am familiar with keto in concept only. I have had friends who were actually “prescribed “ it by their doctor for some sort of condition so they do know about it. I have heard it is not really a lifelong thing too. My list of diets is much different apparently That chart picks “diets” for a particular audience. Ww is not a diet. It is a program. I don’t care how they label it. A participant can be vegetarian, paleo, raw food and make it work. Almost all they say is the number of calories and encourage Whole Foods and offer support and community.. Vegetarian, paleo and raw food and keto are types of diets. How is it that it has paleo and not vegan? If it is weight loss focused where is Atkins? It compares keto to slim fast? Slim fast is a terrible tasting shake. Nobody could maintain that for long. To cooper’s point… where is low carb which is used for weight loss all the time?

[Hidden in reply to Blueruth]

Hi Blueruth lets not get personal please as it’s good to disagree amicably sometimes.

Thank you.

[Subtle_badger in reply to Blueruth]

I'm not defending that list. You said my way of eating is uncommon. I just thought that was a good way of showing it is not. It's not comparing anything, except the number of times particular words appear in searches.

Lots of diets overlap. Keto can be carnivore, paleo, vegetarian, vegan etc etc.

Oh, and Atkins is there, far right.

But what is my stance? I am very confused 😕

[Blueruth in reply to Subtle_badger]

That’s a google search query? No wonder it looks so random. You have to enter phrases so did you choose them or was it an auxiliary search on keto? That tells you how many people search for a phrase not how popular a diet is. Ww and those other companies work hard to ensure their brand is searched. There are well paid people doing that. They could be bankrupt and still be number 2! My specialty is data. Over 2 decades. This is just not a good tool to discover trends in diet choice. It is a good discovery or news trending tool but you would have to use it conjunction with interviews with experts and users to even begin to understand the trends. Every time I consult in a new industry I can’t rely on the data to tell me much of anything. It is the people that work in the field I learn from. Only then can I use my expertise to help them see more of their business. ⬆️ is a consequence of thinking independent research makes you an expert. That is what I mean. “ I would hope I know more about nutrition than most doctors, because I have done research and they know very little. “ you might have better information than that nutritionist but that doesn’t mean all nutritionist or doctors have nothing to add. Or even peers.

[Subtle_badger in reply to Blueruth]

Keto is a common way of eating. That's all I was trying to say.

Sheesh.

[happytulip in reply to Subtle_badger]

My Drs are exceptionally well trained on diet, both in my surgery and my consultants. I have had a good experience with them and they have helped me learn about how my meds were affecting my diet and vice versa. I just wanted to point that out because sometimes it feels like all I read is negative stuff about Drs.

[Subtle_badger in reply to happytulip]

How are you, happytulip? Glad to see you back

I think your doctors are the exceptions. I assume they have gone to some effort to train themselves, but in general, doctors are trained in biochemistry, anatomy and drugs, but very little on nutrition.

bbc.co.uk/news/health-43504125

I caught up with my friend who is a recently retired nephrologist after many months. She remarked on my weight loss, so I told her about my diet and the principles underlying it. She then told me that since retiring, she had stopped buying ready-meals and wasn't eating many carbs; basically her diet was very similar to mine. "That's why I lost 5kg since I retired!" she exclaimed. She was counselling patients on diet, amongst other things, and had never heard of the carbohydrate-insulin model.

[happytulip in reply to Subtle_badger]

I've never eaten ready meals and have never been a fan of crisps, cakes or snacks like that. They've always given me a "food hangover." I got it drummed into me as a child that meat and veg, preferably 7 portions with a roast in my mums case, is a healthy meal with a side order of lots of dog walking. ..

I'm doing OK(ish) thanks for asking. I've made it home and am living on homemade chicken broth. The occasional bit of ginger for nausea but oddly I can tolerate a spoonful or two of rice puddings, homemade of course. It's odd because I never tend to eat dessert but maybe it's what I just need right now.

I'm trying to not overthink it, just get some calories into me as I need the energy.

[Blueruth in reply to happytulip]

Agree. The key is finding a doctor you trust because they do not know everything. It is too big a job. But they know you. My doctor knows I will research any treatment before jumping in for example. I know she will refer me or ask someone else if she is not as familiar with something. The entire office acts like a team in fact. There aren’t a lot of egos. So I choose my insurance based on whether they cover that office.

[Subtle_badger]

Just stay away from all processed foods. These are lentil curls from Tesco. Why would anyone think they are healthy?

Lentil Flour (35%), Potato Starch, Sunflower Oil, Modified Potato Starch, Rice Flour, Whey Derivatives (Milk), Salt, Buttermilk Powder (Milk), Onion Powder, Sugar, Lactic Acid, Dried Cream (Milk), Citric Acid, Parsley, Flavourings, Chive.

[Cooper27 Administrator in reply to Subtle_badger]

It really depends. These are ones we've had in the past when trying some gluten free alternatives:tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/p...

I can see how the packaging gives the impression of a healthy food: "eat real" (AKA whole foods), lower calories, short ingredient list with no unpronounceable chemicals, higher protein, lower fat than crisps. It seems to target a WFPB audience in my opinion.

I think the ones you've quoted are targeted as a lower calorie product? There are definitely plenty out there who think you're healthy if you stick to your calorie RDA, regardless of what you eat.

[Subtle_badger in reply to Cooper27]

Lentil Flour (40%), Potato Starch, Corn Starch, Rapeseed Oil, Sea Salt

Potato starch, corn starch and rapeseed oil aren't whole foods and they are more than half the ingredients. Lentil flour seems OK, as does sea salt 😋

[Cooper27 Administrator in reply to Subtle_badger]

I wasn't suggesting they were, I was saying how the packaging gives that impression by using words like "eat real"

[S11m]

If you live on "Junk Food" you could be eating too much salt - but many health-conscious people are salt deficient. Healthy fat is good food - see the Low-Carbohydrate, High-Fat (LCHF) forum.

Snacks (or eating all day) are generally not good for you, as they tend to cause obesity, diabetes etc. - if I eat a "snack" I try to eat it in my four-hour Intermittent Fasting eating window.

healthunlocked.com/fasting-...

[Bear789]

I like nuts or dried fruit as a portable snack. My absolute favourites are smoked almonds, natural mixed nuts, unsulphured apricots and figs. I weigh them to check I'm having a portion which I use 30g.

[Nikon1972]

One thing I always do these days is check labels. I eat mostly home made and fresh food, with occasional little treats like a chocolate biscuit, but back in the days when I looked at some of the things available in supermarkets and read labels I was a little shocked by how many products marketed as good and healthy are actually anything but. I was interested in cauliflower pizza crusts for a while, as I really, really love pizza, and that is the one meal I consume that is always very high calories compared to my average supper. Making cauliflower pizza crust at home is a faff, especially as to me pizza night is what I like to have as my night off cooking, for instance after a long day and a late schoolrun when there isn't much time to spend in the kitchen. So once out of curiosity I picked up a ready made cauliflower base in a shop, packaged as 'cauliflower pizza base', and reading the label it turned out it was mostly flour and oil with 37% cauliflower and one base was 400 calories, when my usual go to pizza base is just 440. Needless to say I stuck to my usual base which I love, and I just adjust my calories for other meals on the day/week when I have pizza.

I know different people want different things from the food they buy, my daughter is coeliac so in her case we have no choice but to buy gluten free products for instance, but even so we mostly cook from scratch at home. She actually prefer the flatbread-style pizza base I rustle up for her in ten minutes to the ones we buy in the shops, which makes me feel good too, so it's a win-win! Convenience food can be an option from time to time, but it's so, so important to read labels properly and be aware of what one buys.

[amykp]

I once read (I think in a book by Malcom Gladwell) that if a food has to advertise all over its package how HEALTHY it is, it's probably a food you should stay away from.

Broccoli is pretty much mute.

[Blueruth in reply to amykp]

Right on!