Carbs/sugar: Hello Basten, been reading your... - Healthy Eating

Healthy Eating
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Carbs/sugar

Nessie87
Nessie87

Hello Basten, been reading your post and replies.

There’s a GP on twitter I follow; he’s had outstanding success reversing people’s diabetes, which was achieved by reducing their carbs. All the people lost a lot of weight and many reversed their diabetes or put it in remission and no longer needed their insulin or diabetes medication.

It’s surprising that every carb turns to sugar and if your body doesn’t burn it up for energy it becomes stored as fat.

Google Dr. I win and you can read all about it. You don’t need to go on Twitter.

Good luck on your healthy journey.

With love and virtual hugs. Take care. 🤗

53 Replies
oldestnewest

Sorry there’s a ‘typo mistake’ it’s Dr. Unwin!

BridgeGirl
BridgeGirl in reply to Nessie87

You need to tag basten so they see this :) And googling Dr David Unwin will also gives lots of useful information

Whydothis
Whydothis in reply to Nessie87

Hi Basten,

I am going to wade in again here. I feel a little bit qualified as I have done some nutrition courses and I have lost a great deal of weight and gained health and fitness over the last 15 years.

There are many different ways of approaching losing weight and getting fitter, but many of them have so many rules that they just put more pressure on you. Also, many of them are advised online by people with no more real knowledge that you and I, and with no proper evidence (an example of one or two people is not evidence!)

I totally disagree with anyone who suggests cutting out all fruit and most veg (unless you are actually diabetic, rather than pre-diabetic - that is different). A good variety of veg, whatever its natural sugar content, is valuable for micronutrients and fibre, and will do you the world of good.

I repeat my original advice - steer clear of any added sugar in anything, have plenty of protein and plenty of varied veg (enough of both so you don't need the foods we eat purely for their carb content), cut portion sizes down, and gradually increase your exercise.

This is what I have done, and I am a totally different person to the one that started.

Best of luck - read everyone's ideas and make up your own mind, but don't get bogged down in rules that just make you feel guilty when you can't stick to them all the time!

rosie72
rosie72 in reply to Whydothis

I totally agree, I love my veg & grow lots, it's half of my dinner plate.

I am type 2 diabetic, all health professionals advice is eat lots of veg.

I think along with change to our diet we also need to feel happy with what we eat 😁

basten
basten in reply to Whydothis

Thanks again yes it does get mind boggling. I've just spoken to a 76byear old lady who is slim and very fit. She said she had a thing suddenly for mascopini cheese and full fat cream. Then she had her blood cholesterol done later and it had gone up to she steers clear of saturated fats ..just like you say and no sugar etc. Just loads of veg chicken fish . It all gets so confusing. I am still struggling as today we went to a friends for garden tea and we had scones jam and clotted cream. Just couldnt say no!! Now no more . It is very hard when sitting here in isolation and rarely seeing anyone not to be tempted to comfort eat!! Gotta stick with it . I can do it

Whydothis
Whydothis in reply to basten

Yes you can do it! And there is no harm in one scone and toppings when you are out - it is always good to be sociable and eat together, and being happy and relaxed is important.

Keep in touch on here for support, tell yourself it will get easier and it will be worth it!

I'm pretty sure nobody here is advocating stopping eating vegetables, Whydothis. If you're referring to LCHF eating patterns, we eat waaaay more vegetables than most people. LCHF doesn't advocate avoiding fruit either - we just disagree with the idea that fruit is a viable substitute for a meal (as certain diet plans suggest), and the standard protocol avoids fruit for a few weeks simply to reset your internal control systems that manage blood sugar.

Protein intake is largely set by your appetite. You have almost no control over it.

To be perfectly frank, if you've done a few nutrition courses, you've probably been fed a load of hogwash and would be better off reading some medical textbooks to unlearn it all.

I am sorry if my post came over as critical of the top post and Dr Unwin - that was not my intention at all. I agree with what you say, and my own eating patterns are not that different.

My concern is that there is a lot of "information" out there, some of which I think I have seen referred to on here, that takes LCHF to the extreme of "don't eat fruit or root vegetables because they contain carbs". This sort of advice can give someone who is already worried too many rules to follow and so too much to feel guilty about, and at worst can be damaging to health.

No, I have not been reading "hogwash" - just scientific and medical peer reviewed research. This, as you would expect, started with the Mediterranean diet and its emphasis on carbs, but more recent research of course leads towards more protein and proper fat, along with plenty of veg and fruit. Hence my advice in my response to Basten's first post, not to be afraid of fats, but to avoid sugar.

Cooper27
Cooper27Moderator in reply to Whydothis

I'll hop in to say that Dr Unwin is one of the people I follow on Twitter, and I'm not overly concerned by the information he shares. I don't think it goes to the extreme, because they are trying to keep it achievable for the masses. It's certainly not the extreme end of the scale (carnivore or keto), it's generally just whole food, lower carb, limit potatoes.

ah, OK, understand where you're coming from now. Not offended in the slightest by your post; my "hogwash" comment was directed at nutritionists and their courses, not you personally.

You're right that there is a lot of "information" out there ... but a lot of it is put about by the mainstream authorities such as the British Dietetic Association, Diabetes UK, the British Heart Foundation, etc etc. Not only are their websites full nonsense (that is, assertions that have been proven to be untrue), none of them have a good word to say about LCHF, and their arguments are invariably strawmen (ie., they paint LCHF as something it's not, and then attack the caricature).

I once wrote to the BDA to get them to correct one of their more outrageous statements ("saturated fats are converted to cholesterol in the liver"). Miraculously they agreed that it was wrong and deleted it ... although they replaced it with another erroneous statement.

Doctors are also putting out a lot of incorrect information - for example, a few of them have realised that the mainstream high-carb diet is unhealthy, so they're advising people to eat low-fat high-protein diets instead. Which is also unhealthy.

There are certainly a few LCHF fanatics who get ... um, fanatical about it. However I think they're in a distinct minority. All of the people in this forum (I can't think of any exceptions) who are following an LCHF are doing it in a sensible way: starting with plenty of fresh, wholesome ingredients, preparing their own meals, and following their appetites.

I'm a big fan of Dr Unwin because he's a very practical person. He's evolving his diet by experiment: Are my patients getting the hang of this? No? Let's change XYZ and see if it works better. What he's arrived at so far is a really simple eating pattern that anybody can understand, enjoy, and stick with. No complicated rules - in particular, no rules that aren't supported by experimental evidence.

basten
basten in reply to Whydothis

Just to say yes I must avoid sugar but now I know I've got to also have small amounts of occasional fatty meat. I cant have cream high fats chocolate sugar icecream high fat cheese. I've tried and have felt nausea. I also look 12 months pregnant by evening if I do. I've read and this is all due to the fact I dont have a gallbladder and to avoid these things or have tiny one of. I think all you've told me helped. I want to lose weight but alas too my medication has increased it. Thankyou for listening

Whydothis
Whydothis in reply to basten

If you have no gall bladder it really changes how much fat you can eat - I have someone in my family with the same problem. Just have what suits you - and get all the veg you can and make sure you don't go short of protein. As you say, some fatty meat is better than creamy things (which often have added sugar anyway) The meat has fat in its natural state, and it is eaten with the protein, so is better for you from the gall bladder and the weight loss point of view.

basten
basten in reply to Whydothis

Ok thankyou it's nice to know that someone else has my problem since gallbladder out.

Have you done the ICS-NHS Diabetes Prevention Programme Whydothis?

The course book is xperthealth.org.uk/product/... It explains that harmful VLDL comes from eating too many carbohydrates.

Saturated fat can increase HDL as well as LDL, improving the ratio. The ideal fat ratio is that of our body fat; approximately 3:2 monounsaturated to saturated. Natural fat is the best source of most of our energy.

Again, producing too much insulin by eating too frequently, too many processed carbohydrates phcuk.org/sugar (added sugar or not), cutting the fat from meat/protein, or choosing reduced-fat dairy results in dyslipidaemia by contributing to abnormal amounts of insulin. Insulin is wonderfully natural, but not the amount that the vast majority of people elicit in the developed world.

Stress stimulates the body to release blood glucose for the fight or flight response, so people with insulin-resistance are less able to cope with the physiological responses to stress.

A colleague of slender build who regularly ran distance, had a heart attack last year.

I agree totally with your post! Processed carbs and reduced fat dairy are poison! I spend a great deal of time trying to explain to friends why I refuse to buy semi skimmed milk and reduced fat yogurt and cheese - and don't start me on the danger of sunflower based "spreads".

See my reply to TheAwfulToad above). Sorry to give the wrong impression. But no, I have not seen the NHS diabetes prevention info - I will have a read.

Thankyou for the support. Unfortunately, not many people do any research. They just want the doctor to make it go away. So they never learn about such things as Gluconeogenesis and the like. Quite easy to look up. Most things are on Wikipedia.

The NHS X-pert Diabetes Prevention and Management Program is a structured classroom program. It runs over a six week period. Two and a half hours each week. It’s by referral from your GP or diabetes nurse. You can refer yourself but I think then it costs you.

Take care and stay safe and well.

I wouldn't qualify for the course, as I am fortunate enough not to have a diabetes problem (I have avoided added sugar for many years, even before I understood about other aspects of diet)

I agree - most people just swallow what they are told, along with the pills!

Virtually all that is taught in the program, and then some, is covered by people like De Jason Fung, Dr David Unwin, Dr Rangan Chaterjee etc etc.

Have a great day

basten
basten in reply to Whydothis

Just re read your post. What may I ask is a typical food day for you and have you lost weight

Whydothis
Whydothis in reply to basten

I have written a long (too long! reply in the other post, so will keep this shorter! A typical day might be@

Breakfast - small helping of porridge with stewed fruit and full fat plain, live yogurt

Lunch - 2 eggs in some form, with a large plateful of veggies and salad. I usually cook plenty of extra veg the night before that I can reheat or mix with the eggs omelette style. Or recently - a large pasta bowl of broad beans with a generous helping of grated cheddar on top, followed by salad. For me, it helps me to eat slowly and feel full if I split my food into several courses, and eat the salad separately. Then I make "buns" with grated carrot and banana, olive oil, an egg, and very little flour (no sugar) and one of these makes me think I have had a pudding.

Dinner - protein from meat, fish, beans or lentils (with grated cheese if beans or lentils) with a huge plateful of whatever veggies are in season. Fresh fruit or stewed fruit with yogurt.

But no rules other than not having sugar in the house!

basten
basten in reply to Whydothis

Ok ignore my last post I've just read yours. Thanjyou very much the banana carrot buns sound nice. I dont really want to do full keto etc. at present.

basten
basten in reply to Whydothis

I was thinking about my mum. She was fit and healthy. Walked everywhere as she didnt drive. Always porridge with prunes or muesli for breakfast. A slice of bread and apple lunch or a tea cake if out and dinner was always lamb chop.pork liver or mince with veg and couple spuds. Then maybe a yoghurt or stewed apple and custard . Evenings at 9nwould always be a slice of batten burg or tiny piece cake. She rarely ate ham or cheese . Not a lot of fruit. She had no high BP or cholesterol not diabetic. She died at 83 of bowel cancer which my nan died of too. It certainly pays off walking. And she loved sardines with salad. In the war they had butter, bread and dripping little fruit spuds and in those days diabetis and obesity weren't such a big issue. Guess it's just luck

Whydothis
Whydothis in reply to basten

More than luck, I think! Walking plus natural food (including red meat, butter dripping - but not factory produced, artificial low-fat stuff).

Ok thanks

I Googled as you said....Dr I Win. Nothing came up perhaps you mis spelt it, ?

I’m so very sorry Basten, predictive text changed his name!

It’s Dr. David Unwin. Low carb GP

Hi Nessie87, Is the GP from Southport? Just googled him.

Nessie87
Nessie87 in reply to rosie72

Hi Tosie, not sure, he’s up North somewhere! It might be there. He’s a practicing NHS GP, think his wife is a Doctor too.

fosterkit
fosterkit in reply to Nessie87

Yes, he's in Southport at the practice I used to go to. He wrote the foreword to a diabetes weight-loss cookbook. Wonderful recipes and very do-able. It's not keto, just low carb, high fat, which suits me because keto really was a step too far!

BridgeGirl
BridgeGirl in reply to rosie72

Yes, that's him

You need to be careful when reducing your carbs, low sugar can be just as dangerous as high sugar. I hope you’re checking with your doctor before you do it? 🙏😷

Low sugar is not at all dangerous. If we eat zero glucose, our liver can produce it. And in just the right amount needed. The Inuit don’t consume any sugar. Please do research it. Lot’s of info is available. As well as Dr David Unwin. Check out Dr Jason Fung. A nephrologist who treats people with diabetes and obesity. Dr Rangan Chatterjee, another GP. And there are many more.

I’ve experienced it, so we’ll have to agree to disagree. Everyone PLEASE check with your doctor before trying things you read Here on the Internet. Better be Safe than Sorry 😷🙏

Dr Jason Fung, is a mine of information. Dr Moseley too.

basten
basten in reply to NikonikoFred

Low sugar is dangerous if your diabetic you can have a hypo and go into ketosis. My friend was and she had them and immediately had to have something sweet

There's a big difference between ketosis and ketoacidosis.

You're right that hypos are dangerous, but they tend to come from having too much insulin/medication, because under normal circumstances if the body is a little low in carbohydrate it makes glucose from other foods.

Since most people with diabetes have high blood glucose however by definition, lowering carb intake is the natural way to alleviate it.

Well said. If you are diabetic and on either insulin injections or Glucose lowering meds like Gliclazide, then yes you can end up having a dangerous hypo. So when someone like Dr David Unwin treats a diabetic using the low carb approach, which he has done very successfully for some seven years now, the insulin or meds get reduced or eliminated. Isn’t that the aim? To regulate Glucose tolerance without meds? He has also saved his practice tens of thousands of pounds due to reduced prescriptions. So then, if you’re diabetic and you want to try, consult your GP or diabetic nurse. Don’t just do it. You will have to reduce meds if you go very low carb.

You must be a doctor. Sounds like you know it all.

No, I'm not a know it all :-) ; I relate what I've learned to prevent people suffering as my Mam did for instance.

Please bear in mind that until relatively recently it was still an expectation for people with diabetes to progressively worsen, needing ever-greater amounts of medication.

Thank goodness Dr. Unwin, the ICS Diabetes Prevention Programme and others are now implementing carb reduction, and it has been accepted into guidance by NICE.

The next major step is to realise that the reason that obesity has increased, cancer and so many hormonal conditions have increased, and the risks of heart disease or stroke have barely improved is because so many of us were duped into thinking carbohydrate was a safe option, and were encouraged to eat way more than they 'need'.

Mainstream were determined to outlaw low-carb, being adamant they are right in thinking saturated fat is the greatest evil, and not willing to consider alternatives, presumably on ethical grounds. And in doing so, they are entrenched in a flawed theory; pseudo-science that they accuse the alternatives of.

God bless you.

Thanks for all your advice, I agree I'm a big fan of Dr Rangan Chatterjee. Will look up others too.

I always check things out with GP/diabetic nurse before taking drastic action. 👍

NikonikoFred
NikonikoFred in reply to rosie72

Good for you. I too consult my GP. However, it’s not always helpful. I went to check with my GP to ask if I could begin with the Keto diet. His response was that he hadn’t heard of it. This surprised me as this diet has been used with children suffering epilepsy since 1921. Anyway, he gave permission and so I’ve adopted very low carb. That combined with C25k is having amazing results.

So yes, do check out what you can.

He sounds out of touch! Leto diet is everywhere on social media, magazines etc. More profit in pharmaceuticals.

Unfortuanately it's unlikely your GP will know anything about nutrition. I've been on keto 3 years now for diabetes and my GP still refers to my diet as a "strange" diet even though it works and its origins are over 100 years old from the Banting diet.

Nessie87
Nessie87 in reply to sandoval22

It actually does work, unlike many diets.

Agreed. Dr Jason Fung says that out of the many years of study in medicine, only about a week is dedicated to nutrition. So we have to become savvy and start to take care of ourselves.

My journey started with NHS X-pert Diabetes Prevention and management, last year in July. That lead me to start some serious research. It has included effects of carbs, essential amino acids. And a side item, the blood clotting cascade. It’s been fascinating so far. And I believe, a life saver for me.

I think we have to do our own research. As long as it’s evidenced based and researched, should be helpful.

Dr Rupy Ajula his books The Doctor’s kitchen are very helpful. He’s a NHS GP and ‘cured’ his own AFIB with culinary intervention of his own. He posts many varied recipes, mostly vegetarian/vegan but some include fish all really healthy and delicious! I d tried a few.

I’m mostly vegetarian but do have occasional fish in the mix; so guess I’m Pesco-vegetarian.

The infographics are good. Produced by Dr Unwin and endorsed by NICE and translated into several languages.

phcuk.org/sugar/

Dr Unwin was also one of the founders of the Public Health Collaboration Charity. They have just had a conference, virtual due to present times, and there are lots of videos on You Tube that you can see. Just look up Public Health Collaboration.

Personally, I steer clear of any added sugars and east mostly above ground veg but that suits me and, as far as I know , I’ve never had any blood sugar problems.

You may find that your dr/nurse goes in 1 of 2 ways; great go ahead or not heard of it and don’t recommend. That could be because they are doggedly following the NHS guidelines and Eatwell plate - which is flawed and will slowly change, To be honest, there is so much information, real information, that it’s hard to endorse the carbs with everything mantra for diabetes/weight loss.

If you cut added sugars your body compensates (unless you’re are Type 1 diabetic in which case you have to follow official guidelines).

Well said. I’m looking from the point of view of experience. Due to going very low carb and very recently having joined C25k.

Yes type 1 diabetes is a different problem. It’s an autoimmune disease whereas type 2 is dietary. I have managed to reduce meds from 11 tabs per day to 3. I am type 2 diabetic. I believe the Metformin I take help to suppress gluconeogenesis. I sincerely hope that continued weight loss, to my goal weight will, along with progressively increased exercise, get me into remission and off meds totally.

Well done. You are well on your way to achieving your ambition. I am in awe of you and people like you who put the work in to “cure” themselves as I see so many at work (hospital admin) who have problems but just want the, supposedly easy option, of more medication. I just do it as it suits me and any health benefits are a bonus.

C25k is brilliant. I started with that quite a few years and ended up with half marathons+. Unfortunately an accident put paid to running but I can’t recommend C25K highly enough.

Thank you. Yep, prescription pad still too readily available. And you’re right, people just want an easy fix. But fortunately, many are starting to think outside of the box. And I hope it’s not too long before it becomes common knowledge about the error of those 1977 nutrition guidelines.

Thank you for what you do, and I’m sad to hear about your accident. I hope you can find a way to stay physically fit.

Take care and stay safe.

Do you mean Dr Irwin? You type Dr I Win and theres nothing under that name

BridgeGirl
BridgeGirl in reply to basten

Dr David Unwin. It was corrected, above

Oh thanks sorry didnt see that

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