DVLA Licence revocation

[SDH_Recovery]

I had a Chronic Subdural Haematoma DH in January, was operated on Mid February, discharged mid March, returned to work from April 1st and two weeks into normal life the DVLA have now choose to revoke my driving licence.

It seems bizarre to be discharged and allowed to return to work, only to then have my licence revoked, I have 3.5 months to go before I can have one again. I have wrote a letter to the DVLA, not yet posted and I am interested to hear peoples advice on it, many thanks in advance:

Dear DVLA,

Following your letter belatedly revoking my driving licence, please find it enclosed, however I would like to make some comments.

I find it alarming that the system in place for reporting such injuries relies on the honesty of the patient and that such a prolonged period can elapse before being told you must not drive. It seems bizarre to me that until that decision was made you are legally allowed to drive. It seems extremely dangerous; I ponder how many people are out on the road driving when it is not suitable for them to do so.

In the time it took between the hospital and DVLA to communicate and then to write to me revoking my licence, I have successfully had a full recovery from my condition and have returned to work and exercise. Running a family and a full-time job without my licence will be difficult.

When you consider that I never had any seizures, sight issues, weaknesses in my body or indeed any loss of mobility, this decision seems harsh. During February and March, I tried to contact the DVLA regarding updates via telephone but when you select the option to talk to the medical team your system bluntly tells me that you are too busy to take medical enquiries, its madness.

I had my final review with the hospital last month, this was conducted via telephone, with the doctor being pleased with my recovery and fully discharging me from their care. I subsequently had a return-to-work review with my GP who confirmed suitability to return to work full time, resuming all responsibilities.

2 weeks later, after returning to normal activities both at work and home, I receive your letter informing me that I can no longer hold a driving licence, I had long forgotten that I was even waiting for communication from yourselves, I had assumed that your investigations must have tied up with the NHS that I had been discharged and was well, I had moved on with my life.

This system seems a little at odds to me, if I was to be banned from driving, surely this should have been swift action on your behalf, for protecting the public. I would be removing peoples' licences with immediate effect and re-issuing them under confirmation of discharge from medical care. What has happened here is the opposite way round, it makes little to no sense whatsoever. I would like to understand why the mechanism employed here is failing to protect other road users and pedestrians and then limiting drivers once they recover.

In the meantime, whilst I await to hear back from yourselves, I have my application for a new licence and ready to send in on 26th May 2023 (8 weeks before the 6-month anniversary), unless of course something is altered beforehand.

[cat3]

You would think that DVLA rules would be the same nationwide but, from reports here on Headway, it seems they differ region to region.

I hear of folk waiting between 6 - 9 months or indefinitely to have their licenses reinstated. Obviously some brain injuries leave behind more complex issues than others, so delay & re-testing might be required for some.

As soon as I regained awareness after my op I was asked by the consultant to sign a declaration agreeing not drive until approved fit to do so by all depts involved with my care. At my review three months after my discharge, (6 months post op) my surgeon notified DVLA that he rated my cognition, mobility and responsiveness 'Good' and my license was reinstated.

Your letter is clear and comprehensive SDH ; I hope it triggers an explanation of their actions and (touch wood) a return of your licence. Regards, Cat....

[john-boy-92]

The DVLA Medical Group use non-medical people with written instructions and, the senior doctor is a former A&E Consultant. Suffice to say that the recent Public Accounts Committee (PAC) Inquiry into the DVLA backlog, commented that disabled people may have a discrimination case [against the DVLA], particularly where their cases were deferred. My evidence was published online within the PAC report.

My licence was revoked as a stroke in 2016 affected part of my peripheral vision (hemianopia with macula sparing) , but despite support from two GPs, and evidence from an academic on the shortlist to be in the Secretary of State's expert advisory panel on driving and vision, the DVLA refuse to issue a provisional disability assessment licence (PDAL). Six years have elapsed, and I can read a registration plate at 20 metres without glasses. The DVLA now require that I have the visual field of a person with normal sight before I can apply for a PDAL! If I had the visual field of a normally sighted person, I wouldn't need a PDAL.

I wish you luck. The complaint route if you have to pursue it is two stages within the DVLA, then referral to the DfT Independant Complaints Assessors (ICA). If the ICA find your complaint relates to DVLA policy, it's not in their remit and must be raised with the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman (PHSO), but that can only happen with a form signed by your MP. It then takes six to eight months for a PHSO case officer to be assigned. At that point it can be another six to twelve months for an outcome.

[Hidden]

Hi SDH_Recovery. I understand this issue quite well. I have just gone through helping my partner apply for her license after revocation. She has also returned to work on phased return. I can tell you that it was not legal for you to drive until your license was revoked. It was illegal as soon as you had your accident, stroke, etc. Under certain circumstances, i.e. craniotomy, different haemorrhage types, it is a legal obligation to inform the DVLA with a form B1, and in other circumstances there is a "may have to inform the DVLA" situation which is all explained at the .gov website. It is also a matter of fact that you won't be allowed to drive for at least 6 months after your problem began. This is so they can ensure you don't have issues with seizures, field of vision, cognitive functions that are required at a high level for driving. You will unfortunately have to go through the same process my partner is and hope you get it back sooner rather than later. You can apply for your license 8 weeks before the 6 months is up. Hope this helps.

[Hidden]

I neglected to add that it is also a legal requirement to inform your car insurance company of the medical problem you had which we will do on reinstatement of driving license.

[lcd8]

Hi there. Unfortunately the DVLA has a very narrow understanding of BI. They have probably revoked your licence more out of procedure than anything else. Its really irritating. Especially as they should have advised you not to drive as soon as you reported your medical circumstances, even if that was by phone. However I do realise they have the public's interests at heart and that its a standard thing for them to do when someone has had a head injury/procedure. At some point they were probably informed that seizures are more likely then. They're just trying to protect the public and you. After all you'd feel awful if anything was to happen and you caused it wouldn't you? I've lost my license a couple of times after Shunt revision procedures. The good news is that after the time they give you it should be possible to get it back. I'm afraid that it causing difficulties for you probably isn't what they were thinking of. Best of luck.

[catrabb1t]

hi there, your letter makes some really good points and from your point of view has questions that need answering. I hope you get a detailed reply.

Caelan above states the Why.

You aren't taking medication for possible seizures hence a 6 month revocation, not 12 month. Somebody told me we are more prone to having a seizure after the surgery hence the revocation. This standardisation is to do these checks, there is no bespoke review of your individual case.

The DVLA info was given to me in my hospital discharge pack with the DVLA form and the discharge nurse verbally told me I had to inform the DVLA and not drive following brain surgery. This tells me your hospital discharge should have told you. Then you would not have driven.

I think in your situation, you have recovered exceptionally well therefore you may well fall into a minority of people who would have been ok to drive. However, as I said before, IF there is a higher risk of having a first time seizure then that risk must be applied to the situation...

Your recovery is brilliant! Can I ask, did you have drainage burr hole and no craniotomy? Happy for you and your family that you are managing to do so well.

[SDH_Recovery in reply to catrabb1t]

Hi , cheers for your reply.

You are correct, I had a burr hole and drainage, not craniotomy.

Recovery was going well, but oddly today I have some hearing loss and a headache, waiting for a call-back from my GP to see if it is something to be concerned about or not.

I just had a read through on your experience, quite an ordeal you had there my friend, how is your recovery going?

I also experienced the busy brain issue, with it playing catch up on time lost, I found until I acted upon what it was pondering it could not move on to the next thing it wanted to disturb my sleep with!

Everyone who asks me what is it like to have had a brain injury, I always begin with look after your head - you do not want a head injury!

Cheers for interacting

Chris

[catrabb1t in reply to SDH_Recovery]

hi Chris, thank you for asking 🙂 Ive just read about your background and see that you also had brain bleed months before you had surgery. Whereas your bleeds were identified and sort of monitored, mine were not indentified and I became very ill over 3 months, lost functioning, collapsed, became unresponsive and had emergency surgery. I also needed a craniotomy as well as the drain. Comparisons do not work between people, but I do find it interesting how well you are managing now and how quickly you got to do things again after having the brain bleeds for the same 3 months, then needing a drain and no craniotomy. I haven't gone down the road of wishing it was different as I haven't been affected that way, but there is a lot of reason to why i could think like that. Luckily I dont. I do sometimes think about the pressure that the bleeds would have done to my brain over the 3-month period before surgery as I had a lot of symptoms and deterioration, and after surgery I have been held back. I am doing ok. I am still making progress. I have had really good post-surgery support from the neuro discharge team. Even though I can physically and mentally do most things, I cannot fit much in to my day because I become exerted, I have struggled with exhaustion. I have to pace myself a lot. I have to choose day to day what I will do. I have days where I hardly do anything because I am recovering from the bit I did the day before. Cognition exhaustion is a bummer. I am blessed that I have come out of it with positivity and a 'I dont care' attitude. Not always ideal but it gets me through tough times. That's it in a nutshell. I don't yet know how I will feel in a year's time with the same limited life style... I just assume I will keep making progress.

[Shreds]

I was lucky because DVLA were understaffed and running over five months behind themselves. They bizzarely said keep driving until we revoke your licence, which took them five and a half months. (I drove over 5000 miles in that time. My doc agreed and wrote to DVLA stating my recovery was good, and said to me if you wait for the DVLA you will have forgotten how to drive, so carry on)

We had to point out to DVLA that their own website stated six months from the date of the last operation (not from the date of their own incompetence).

So when that was pointed out they said ok send your licence in plus a new application and we will reissue. Meanwhile I was able to cycle on the roads regardless for the fortnight until it came back.

I do think that such incompetent people should not be in a job, but presumably that how you get to work for such departments and how your taxes are badly spent !

[Tebbs55]

Hello I feel your pain , DVLA unaccountable , in my case SAH TBI conservatively managed and no seizures , they have written to the wrong consultants and doctors at wrong address, I complained as this was the only route at which point they admitted to seven errors inc an off road assessment 50 miles away , I now have a PDAL license and awaiting an on road assessment after seventeen months ! , when I pass the assessment they allow them selves six weeks before I get my licence back , thank god I’m not self employed and need to drive for a living , they fail to understand that driving is part of a normality hard enough recovering from a tbi and life changing effects without having to battle with an origination that’s unaccountable & has no competition or consequences!! , keep battling and don’t give in

[john-boy-92 in reply to Tebbs55]

I can't say if the same applies for people with a TBI, but for Group 1 drivers with a visual field issue, since February 2020 the PDAL should be issued with sufficient time to arrange refresher driving lessons before the assessment. The assessment after a stroke involves cognition and strength tests (practise drawing a perfect circle of a clock face and accurately positioning the hands at 10 to 2), and braking reaction time. The driving assessment will be in an unfamiliar car on an unfamiliar route for 50 minutes.

Drivers who were issued a PDAL before February 2020 were not allowed to have refresher lessons. Failing the driving assessment meant then, that you were blocked from having a further PDAL and assessment.

[Tebbs55 in reply to john-boy-92]

for non commercial drivers refresher lessons aren’t mandatory but recommended I’ve got two hour long sessions next week at which point and only then will the assessment centre give me a date but they also offered me cancellations albeit last minute which is fine by me.

[john-boy-92 in reply to Tebbs55]

For those who have had a stroke, you won't have driven for 12 months or more. The route is usally urban, with dual carriageway and maybe some awkward junctions. I was told to turn from a minor road into a smaller road that was lined both sides with parked cars, making it just wider than the car I was driving. A Transit was out far enough so I couldn't get through. I was instructed to reverse back to a blind tee junction and then reverse into the minor road. Despite coping with everything, I was failed because the assessor wanted me to drive 18 inches from the kerb. With 50 years of driving, I allowed enough room for a cyclist to come through on the nearside; a common event in cities. The other point was the assessor saying that the unseen area on the Esterman chart was the biggest he had seen: a non-medical opinion.

[Hidden]

Good morning, I agree with you as I am in the same boat but I have applied for mine again and waiting to see if I get to drive again. My 6 months is up on 12th May. I didn't drive as I had BPPV after my accident due to brain and head trauma. I didn't drive as I was dizzy but I had attended all my appointments from ENT to Neurological rehabilitation and passed all the tests cognitive wise, epley manoeuvre and no dizziness for him to discharge me saying g he would write a report for DVLA. I'm not dizzy and not suffered from that since nearly 3.5 months ago and on no medication at all, except thiamine and iron tabs but not the 16 tabs a day I had been on before. Like you no seizures, no sight problems (only 2 skull fractures, 3 bleeds on brain, fractured cheek bone and black eye due to brain causing it through a bump on the opposite side from fracture, saying only but its not an only good thing to have). I have gone back to work on phased return and have to get my husband to take me there as he needs a day at home working to take me and get me home. So I totally understand the frustration when they revoke your license as I had the same done. Fingers crossed you get to drive again even if it has to be at the 6 months as that's when they tell you that you should be able to drive. Good news though about your doc etc giving you clear to drive, and that you are back to work. I just hope I get the good news too. 🤞 for you. 🙂

[SDH_Recovery in reply to Hidden]

Good luck, let me know if you get the news you are hoping for!!