glutened by “gluten free cider”

[Rebelliotto]

I tried some gluten free cider last night and immediately had celiac symptoms within half an hour (stomach gurgling, reflux and needing the toilet.) I then also had insomnia and these three are sure signs I’ve had gluten. The cider in question was Thatchers Rose flavoured. Has anyone else experienced this with any alcohol? It’s all meant to be gluten free anyway with the exception of beer. This disease is crazy I don’t understand it sometimes. I’ve had plain cider and been absolutely fine.

pretty annoyed at myself right now. I’m going to be Ill for the holidays and I’m working through them as well. I hate how long a glutening lasts

[besshilldad]

I never had any reaction from drinking Thatcher's. I would seriously look at what else you had consumed at the time. Of course it's always possible to get any drink that has been contaminated by several different reasons. Even cleaning or lack of cleaning can be a major factor.

[Cooper27 in reply to besshilldad]

I'm wondering this, and maybe if there's a chance someone broke a bottle of beer in the alcohol aisle, and spilled a bit on the cider bottles. Or if it's even potentially been a shared bottle opener.

[besshilldad in reply to Cooper27]

More likely poor hygiene. Can't see bottle opener causing a problem. Beer and cider can go off. Especially if not sealed correctly.Dirty glasses not hot washed and rinsed can be a problem. It's a nightmare sometimes. Gluten is all around us and it's almost impossible to 100% avoid it. Fingers crossed you learn who to trust. When you know that it becomes easier. Anyone who has to check a label if you ask should never be trusted. This is a clear sign they don't know and never check anything.

[Rebelliotto in reply to besshilldad]

I’d eaten an omlette and sausage and mash prepared in my own kitchen. Nothing else. Drank out of the can too and that’s when the reaction started I’d been fine until the cider.

[besshilldad in reply to Rebelliotto]

From that I if your confident everything was clean and GF- I would guess the eggs in the omlette caused an issue. A high percentage of eggs are infected and cooking them doesn't help. Many celiac can't tolerate egg whites. I don't know exactly why, but I know several people who have issues with eggs.

[Hidden in reply to besshilldad]

I think you need to qualify that about eggs as that can be misleading. Some people argue that chickens feeding on gluten containing grain can have risk of gluten in the eggs the produce, but there is no fundamental research that demonstrates this. Beyond that, depending which country you buy eggs in, standards tend to be quite high. Eggs are an emulsifier, so this is perhaps the association with coeliac - emulsifiers can irritate the gut lining. There was a research project happening at Glasgow uni on eggs and gut injury as feeding eggs to mice caused damaged to their GI tract, so argument would be, if scaled up, humans may experience gut damage if consuming eggs. Not sure what the outcome of the human research on this was.

[besshilldad in reply to Hidden]

I don't need to do anything -;this is a friendly open discussion. Don't come on here telling what I need to do. I detest people who take the high ground. Offer your opinions but don't create bad feelings by critising others. Merry Xmas

[Hidden in reply to besshilldad]

I think you got the wrong end of the stick there. No offence intended, and apologies if my comment read in that way.

[Rebelliotto in reply to besshilldad]

no I’ve been eating eggs for years and have no problem with eggs. Also where’s this claim that all eggs are infected come from? Do you have a source for that?

[besshilldad in reply to Rebelliotto]

Just my opinion the same as many others. Do you remember Edwina Curry. I won't bother offering any more thoughts as you are questioning my opinion. Merry Xmas

[angelias]

I drank Thatcher’s in the past, the Apple and the Pear type and had no reaction. All flavoured drinks, also vodka for example, are to be avoided. The ingredient “flavourings” could contain anything, including gluten. Hope you’ll feel better soon.

[Rebelliotto in reply to angelias]

thank you I’ve also had their plain cider in the past without issue, until trying this flavoured one. I’m wracking my head to think what else it could have been but it couldn’t have as I eat at home my house is gluten free as I live alone and I don’t use anything other than salt on my food.

[corby39]

I too drank cider for a few weeks because I was convinced it was GF but started getting the same symptoms as as you. I stopped drinking it and was back to normal after a few days. I would like to know if there exists a GF cider.

[Rebelliotto in reply to corby39]

sorry to hear that and glad you’re feeling better. I’ve had i issue with plain cider just this one weirdly enough.

[angelias in reply to corby39]

most ciders should be gluten-free (except the flavoured ones). For what I can recall, “Magner”actually states “gluten-free” on its label verywellfit.com/gluten-free...

[nomorebeer]

Proper cider made from fermented apples is gluten free, but who knows what's in the flavoured ones, luckily for me, I don't like any of the flavoured ones and only drink "scrumpy" still cider with no additives.

[Rebelliotto in reply to nomorebeer]

think I’ll be sticking to the plain cider from now on.

[MTCee]

I used to be able to drink whisky but I can only tolerate the very expensive varieties now…..I know, poor little me 😂. I wonder if the cheaper varieties add colouring to their product which must have gluten in it? There is never any information on the bottles so it’s impossible to tell. I agree with others here that unflavoured versions of anything are generally safer but it’s still a bit of a lottery.

[corby39 in reply to MTCee]

I only drink malt whisky and so far have no reactions in the last ten years.

[MTCee in reply to corby39]

I’m envious.

[Hidden]

Not a drink I would ever drink, so no personal experience. It worries me that alcoholic drinks do not have to list their ingredients, so there could be something in this drink that qualifies as 'gluten free' to the codex standards, but you are not able to tolerate the codex level. Beyond that, have you checked on the sausages as the only other processed food you consumed? Any change in the ingredients or a brand you have no used before? It is massively annoying when this happens, and just makes the food/drink options even more limited. No harm in contacting Thatchers to do some due diligence?

[Rebelliotto in reply to Hidden]

thanks Benjamin. It is annoying Not having the ingredients for the cider as it could have some low level codex in there as a flavour but I can’t have codex. No the sausages are fine they’re the only ones I buy and eat and the ingredients are still the same I’ve just checked the pack. Good idea I’ll email them and ask if they use anything gluten derived in their flavours.

[Hidden in reply to Rebelliotto]

Similar to yourself, I can't handle the codex. I've had reactions to a lot of so-called natural fizzy drinks also, and I do suspect there is wide use of undeclared grain-derived glucose in a lot of drinks to bring up the sweetness/flavour. Keep us posted on how you get on with Thatchers if you do contact them. There is an argument, and some research, that the gluten testing does not work well on distilled or fermented products and drinks, so perhaps they results are a bit screwy if they do test. Back to the drawing board on your drinks options.

[Rebelliotto in reply to Hidden]

I’ve heard nothing back yet from thatchers but maybe that’s because of the time of year. Happily I found two plain ciders in Tesco with no other ingredient other than apples so I’ll be sticking to plain cider from now on. I tested some thatchers blood orange to be sure I was having problems with their flavours and what do you know I had half a. Bottle in a safe controlled environment at home and bam, gluten symptoms again including my rash coming up on my elbows. It’s. Such a minefield and the celiac app isn’t fit for purpose especially for those of us who react to codex. Also sick of comments. From other celiacs saying it can’t be that as they’re fine with it.

[m0ezp]

I can’t explain if this was in a can or bottle. I’ll share my glutened by cider in September scenario just for awareness...

I’ve had no problems with cider of any sort since diagnosed 8 years ago until this event. My cider was on draught and I think they had changed barrels over from lager to cider just before pouring mine. I thought my cider tasted a little different but it still tasted of cider. What I noticed was that it had a head that lasted when it would normally disperse quickly with cider.

Now I’m interrogating the bar staff about how long they’ve had cider on that pump and if I don’t get a convincing cider I won’t have it. It limits choice even more though.

[nomorebeer in reply to m0ezp]

Was the cider served through a pressurised tap like lager and keg beer, or was it on a hand-pull? if it was a hand-pull, then the line should have been thoroughly cleaned with special cleaning fluid

[m0ezp in reply to nomorebeer]

I'm not sure. It wasn't my round so I just has a cursory look at what was on offer. Which ever, no cleaning had happened that was certain.

I've noticed this year that the shortage of staff generally in hospitality is a concern. I've attended two dinners this year where previously it almost felt like I was insulting them by asking about the food's ingredients when "of course we understand you're coeliac". This year totally different, lots of near misses and more need for us to be vigilant.

[nomorebeer in reply to m0ezp]

It is possible for flavoured ciders to conatin gluten because of what ingredients are used to flavour them, if gluten containing ingredients are added after the fermenting process, then there is labelling legislation that ensures the product label clearly states if wheat, barley, rye or oats have been added.

Personally, when out having a drink, I always go to the bar even if it's someone else buying the round, just to make sure there is no mix up with the drinks, and in the case of a flavoured cider you are not familiar with, you can ask to check the ingredients on the bottle or can to make sure there is nothing listed that you can't have, even with draugth beers, venues are required to know what ingredients are in the beer.

[m0ezp in reply to nomorebeer]

I'm not keen on flavoured ciders so always stick with real cider and like you always mill around the bar anyway. I'll focus a lot more on the pouring in future though.

[Hidden in reply to m0ezp]

I agree standards for food allergens and gluten have entirely gone to pot (no pun intended). Lockdown disrupted service across the board, so now it's entirely ok for GP reception staff to be rude and hang-up phones (has happened me numerous times) as they got away with that during lockdown (even though they should not), and similarly food outlets lost a lot of money so focus is 'pile em high' rather than deliver detailed service and observation of dietary requirements/actual law on allergens. Things do seem to have gone backwards, and they weren't great to begin with. I'm at the point where I never eat out, don't touch food anyone has prepared and genuinely only eat things prepped in my own kitchen. Even the cleanliness of supermarket checkouts seems to have gone down hill with a loaf-worth of crumbs on every checkout and conveyor belt.

[m0ezp in reply to Hidden]

We visited Southwalk Borough Market in London before Christmas and noticed many products breaking allergen laws. I think we had peak GF around 2016. Supermarkets have moved on to the new 'fashion' of vegan. It was telling that we couldn't get a round GF christmas cake this time not because they'd sold out but weren't even made but vegan ones were easy to find. I guess we reaped the rewards of the GF 'fashion' but its sad that its passed.

GP interaction is appauling at the moment. I suspect that applies to all but I've been trying to get GP attention to review my medications and supplements for many months because I think my cocktail+coeliac means significant absorption problems which are accelorating my osteoarthritis. I've just seen your Vit K2 post so I know we're on the same page there. Just before Christmas I dropped a written letter off at the Practice asking for more blood tests as without knowing the baseline I figure it could create new issues through having too much of something. I know it won't get anywhere so I'll have to experiment instead won't I! 🙄😂

[Hidden in reply to m0ezp]

GPs simply don't want to know, and without being rude, know sweet f-a about ceoliac or dietary impact on health. If you are struggling for a meds review it might be worth chatting to the community pharmacist for the practice/area as they tend to be the people who stop GPs from killing people.

[m0ezp in reply to Hidden]

Thanks. I'm getting some bloods done today not via my GP but via a private surgeon as I'm having an (unrelated) op next month. He's filled in the NHS form thankfully and it should give me a bit more insight into Vit K. It was the GP practice pharmacist who rang me in November for a repeats review that started me looking in detail at what I was taking and he questioned me taking PPIs (Lansoprazol) because of their blocking of fat soluble vitamins etc. Similarly a rhumatologist in Sept said he wanted me taking vit D but wasn't keen on me taking calcium because "it tends to go anywhere but where you need it"!

[CATRYNA49]

There are times when our symptoms have nothing to do with gluten. I can't stomach, cider vinegar either. But, I also can't have any kind of grain, or soy, or anything with yeast, or anything high in iodine. I say just lay off the cider vinegar because you are one who will not benefit from ingesting it.

[Rebelliotto in reply to CATRYNA49]

I don’t use cider vinegar or any vinegar for that matter

[DiLightful111]

Cider is made from apples which cause many people problems. It’s a FODMAPs and worse, cider is fermented and thus high histamine. It’s completely unrelated to gluten. In fact, the more you explore foods and all the various components to them and the potential most have for negative health effects, you realize gluten problems are just the tip of the iceberg.

[KarteR26 in reply to DiLightful111]

Agreed FODMAPs are the most likely cause. I'm coeliac and cider/apples is one other thing I can't tolerate. Alcohol is fine.

[DiLightful111 in reply to KarteR26]

good ol vodka is my go to lately lol most of free of everything else bad just the obvious.

[Rebelliotto in reply to DiLightful111]

I’ve never had a problem with cider in over five years on the diet I don’t have a fodmap issue either as the food I prepare uses lots of high fodmap foods like onion and garlic. Like any celiac who’s been at this for a while I know my symptoms from gluten and Cross Contamination. Most notably my dermatitis herpetiformis which is only brought out due to gluten as it’s the celiac rash.